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Alexander's Horse
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Panmunjon, hands up!
Jan 1970
time: 15:22
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quote:
Originally posted by deity
Get over it Horse!
I've accepted that although rules were broken I have to play on.
Now not a peep... |
That's not acceptable to me. No rules were broken.
Last edited by Alexander's Horse on 27-10-2002 at 13:58
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deity
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Parrot Towers, Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 1999
time: 14:22
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Horsie thinks I crossed the line with these last few posts!
LOL  The pot calling the kettle black!!!
Horsie still doesn't seem to understand. No official alliances have been created in this game because, oh well, you see, it's a no alliance game! Duh!
Has been since 4000BC. I wonder if Horses approach Elephants in memory capacity?
Anyway, because we are all now agreed that it has been and IS a no alliance game with no city bribe OIR unit bribe I think it's a most logical deduction, consistent with Apolyton culture and custom, to say that ceding a city would be, errr, breaking the rules. Phew.
So, in more than my own humble opinion I'm now reluctantly agreeing to play on from where we last saved, despite Makeo's excellent sporting gesture.
So Horsie, you don't have to agree or disagree with anything!!
We just play on 
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deity
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Parrot Towers, Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 1999
time: 14:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
I'll be interested to read makeo's explanation of why he gave me the city if he thought it was a breach of the rules. Very interested indeed. |
I didn't say Makeo said it was a breach of the rules, that's up to him. I simply said that he offerred to go back to that point in the game. Most gentlemanly.
quote:
But of course all we have at this stage is your word for it. Been busy on the icq persuading him have we? |
All my arguments have been presented in this wonderful thread 
quote:
And if you are wondering why the smilies have disappeared I think, as I mentioned in my icq message, that you have crossed a line, sadly for all the civ world to see. |
In my opinion a rule has been broken BUT I've accpeted that I've been outvoted. What total fear trip are you on now Horsie? 
quote:
Now having played these sorts of games for nearly 30 years against all sorts of opponents, there is nothing new here for me in what you are doing, and one game isn't more important than another to me frankly, so it might be time for a bit of a chill out I think.
Ask gaming vets like Ming and RAH what I'm talking about if you don't know what I'm getting at. I suspect its your rep at stake here, not mine with where you are taking this. |
What I'm doing? I'm doing what you do
quote:
Suffice to say I wouldn't have ribbed you so much about the state of the game if I had known this is how you would react. To that extent I accept some blame - this is obviously far more important to you than it is to me - I should have realised that when you started making multiple consecutive posts. But there it is
So let's have a little pause shall we? To take stock.
Ah - I did manage to work a couple of smilies in  |
ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Horsie gets all serious now and wants to chill out! LOL 
I think my rep is enhanced here. I'm not quitting. I've simply been arguing a case - most persuasively by all accounts 
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:22
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quote:
Originally posted by deity
Anyway, because we are all now agreed that it has been and IS a no alliance game with no city bribe OIR unit bribe I think it's a most logical deduction, consistent with Apolyton culture and custom, to say that ceding a city would be, errr, breaking the rules. Phew.
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Therein lies the problem, D. Your extrapolation - that there's a connection between unit/city bribe and city ceding - is yours alone. It's not a logical deduction, it's an extrapolation. It's a free world, you're entitled to extrapolate how you like. Just as others are entitled to disagree with you.
Apolyton culture and custom? I must remember to cite that vague, shifting, amorphous mass next time I'm in a discussion. It's a beaut.
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deity
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Parrot Towers, Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 1999
time: 14:22
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quote:
Originally posted by finbar
Therein lies the problem, D. Your extrapolation - that there's a connection between unit/city bribe and city ceding - is yours alone. It's not a logical deduction, it's an extrapolation. It's a free world, you're entitled to extrapolate how you like. Just as others are entitled to disagree with you.
Apolyton culture and custom? I must remember to cite that vague, shifting, amorphous mass next time I'm in a discussion. It's a beaut. |
Extrapolation:
To infer or estimate by extending or projecting known information, assuming that the estimation follows logically.
Yes, I can live with that.
---
But primarily I had made an assumption that city ceding, gifting units, gifting gold and all the normal alliance stuff was not allowable.
In my opinion I felt that a rule had been broken and I protested at the time of the city ceding but I was out-voted 3:1, so we played on.
Subsequently I've argued the case in this thread, drawing on everything I'd picked up in games with Apolytoners and thread discussions.
So far no one has responded to my logical extrapolations. You've simply said you don't agree but it would be good to see arguments presented. 
Why is it that you guys are so against unit bribe but quite happy about city ceding (incl units)?
Having said all this I have always accepted the situation in the game because I did play on, despite my protests in King Chat.
I didn't quit and I will continue to play on.
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However, are we now saying that anything other than no unit bribe and no city bribe is allowable?
Can finbar cede cities near Makeo's capital?
Can we gift gold?
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deity
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Parrot Towers, Killcare Heights, NSW, Australia
May 1999
time: 14:22
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he he
What's this? Horsies off to lick his wounds and now his running dog (meant affectinately) finbar has taken up the gauntlet!!
But here I am all on my own continuing this most interesting and humorous debate...
Makeo! Come in Makeo!!!
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
quote:
Originally posted by finbar
Semantics, huh?
1. An extrapolation operates only on known information. Importantly, there's no assumption of fact. That's why it's an extrapolation....... |
I said I DID extprapolate! No argument there but my definition, which I'm happy with, came from Atomica.
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Those things are part and parcel of alliance games but I don't think they're all necessarily exclusive to them. If we have to label our game it's a cooperation game - because it's not a non-cooperation game. I've never assumed that cooperation is limited only to trading techs and maps. Why should it be? |
OK, so this is a co-operation game. Fine.
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I copied this from one of your earlier posts:
"Isn't the idea behind the 'no unit bribing' rule to stop civs from getting cheap units and unreasonable tactical advantages? "
That might be some people's view. I disagree with unit bribing on two counts: (1) it encourages lazy play; and (2) it's part of my problem with the power of diplomats in the game relative to their cost. I disagree with city bribing for the same reasons. |
Right, so unit bribing is lazy play but getting a city for free that is chock full of units is extremely challenging game play? LOL! 
quote:
Regardless, it's the logical connection between unit bribe and city ceding that I struggle with. They're entirely different concepts. Your line of thought seems to suggest that city ceding can provide an unreasonable tactical advantage except in an alliance game where it's okay.... |
That's WHY so many games have become non-alliance games. Apolyton culture has deliberated on this for years. Ceding cities is generaly regarded as pretty cheap play.
With unit bribe you have to build a diplo then pay to bribe. With city ceding you get a FREE city with whatever units are inside it... Go figure
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27-10-2002 10:31
the whole world is watching. 
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