06-10-2002 06:46									#121
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A human- when a cell has human dna

	06-10-2002 06:49									#122
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quote: Originally posted by flash9286 A human- when a cell has human dna

You'd better not cut yourself or suffer any similar injury, then, because otherwise you'll end up murdering thousands or millions of tiny little humans (also known as "red blood cells").

	06-10-2002 06:55									#123
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger You'd better not cut yourself or suffer any similar injury, then, because otherwise you'll end up murdering thousands or millions of tiny little humans (also known as "red blood cells").

And I can have a child if I cut my finger off and start to take care of it! Or is it my twin since it is a part of me? No wait, then it must be a woman! Then my finger will eat an apple and I get kicked out of my cool appartment "just because".

	06-10-2002 06:58									#124
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ok if you want to be spepfic
Human- when two human sex cells fuse to form human

	06-10-2002 07:15									#125
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quote: Originally posted by flash9286 Human- when two human sex cells fuse to form human

We're allowed to define terms with no justification whatsoever now? Beauty!

Why not go the whole hog? Try:
Abortion- The act of murdering babies.

"Clearly, abortion is murder! Just look at the definition, for crying out loud!"

	06-10-2002 07:18									#126
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just giving my opinon you have yet to back up your arugments

	06-10-2002 08:05									#127
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quote: Originally posted by flash9286 just giving my opinon you have yet to back up your arugments

You're one to accuse others of not backing up their arguments...

"This is how I define a human, I offer no justifications for this definition but expect it to be accepted nonetheless, I thus declare victory by reason of my completely irrational (and thus irrefutable!) arguments."

If you want to offer a reasonable argument for your position, then I'll consider debating you. If you just want to throw around unjustified claims, then forget it -- you can do that with or without my assistance, and "debating" with you would be a waste of my time.

	06-10-2002 18:01									#128
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me not justifinying what i said all you have done is pick apart other people posts you have presented no evidence of any kind an until you do i will leave this arugment

	06-10-2002 20:17									#129
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Hey, it's no skin off my nose if you're content with having a completely arbitrary moral system.

	06-10-2002 20:35									#130
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quote: Originally posted by loinburger You'd better not cut yourself or suffer any similar injury, then, because otherwise you'll end up murdering thousands or millions of tiny little humans (also known as "red blood cells").

Minor nitpick:

Human red blood cells do not have nucleus, so they don't have the human genes.

However, skin cells do have nucleus, and so do white blood cells.

	06-10-2002 20:37									#131
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quote: Originally posted by flash9286 ok if you want to be spepfic Human- when two human sex cells fuse to form human

So what's the difference between a fertilised egg and your average skill cell?

	06-10-2002 21:48									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov Would a woman with a 5 y/o be allowed to let him smoke and drink alcohol? No - social services would take the kid away.

I was given wine with meals from the age of 4. No problem.

	06-10-2002 21:50									#133
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The answer to the original question is easy, and boils down to a swingle question. Do the rights of the unborn child take precedence over the rights of the mother?

I say they don't. Therefore I don't propose that smoking mothers should be prosecuted. Nor do I propose prosecuting pregnant women who fail to ingest sufficient folic acid, for that matter.

	07-10-2002 08:36									#134
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Ron, drinking/abusing other drugs to the extent of causing a major health risk to the child if pregnancy is carried to term is unjustifiable for the same reason that firing off random shots with a rifle in the dark is unjustifiable.

By your actions (now) you may cause concrete harm to a person (later). It doesn't matter that the person doesn't yet exist when the act is undertaken...

	07-10-2002 10:14									#135
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I think pro-choice and pro-life people could all get along if they would share clean combs with one another.

	07-10-2002 11:42									#136
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You sure they don't have head lice?

	07-10-2002 17:41									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Ron Jeremy The answer to the original question is easy, and boils down to a swingle question. Do the rights of the unborn child take precedence over the rights of the mother? I say they don't.

Comparing the right to life, to the right to have a fag and drink...

	07-10-2002 17:58									#138
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You have such a male attitude to womens issues don't you Boddies.

	07-10-2002 18:01									#139
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This isn't about the woman, it's about the kid Mike.

I don't know why liberals love to turn everything into a pro-woman/anti-woman debate, care to explain?

	07-10-2002 18:10									#140
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You're treating the woman like some baby container rather than a person. How can it not be about the woman?

Who says there's a right to life anyway? People say it like it's a commonly known fact that we're discussing. It isn't, it doesn't exist. If there was it'd assume there's some universal law that governs all human behaviour. Where's that? The whole assumption that there is a right to life leads to philosophical problems I'm not prepared to tackle.

You eat meat right? What about the animal's right to life? If you were a Bhuddist and respected the right of every living creature to life then it'd be fair enough but why this specific example?

I'm also not prepared to throw a woman in jail for drinking and smoking. You think that would be good for a baby? You couldn't stop it anyway, it's totally unrealistic. At best you could only stop it in public.

	07-10-2002 19:02									#141
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Maybe we should make women who have been caught drinking while pregnant spend a week with a person who has fetal alchol syndrome. This way they can see how the actions they are preforming now may affect the baby they are carrying.

Actually maybe you could make a person who has been caught drinking and driving spend a week with a person who has been injured by a drunk driver. On second thought there would be no beneficial outcome for that, besides maybe a broken nose.

	07-10-2002 19:21									#142
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Make them spend a week with someone who's been killed by a drunk driver.

	07-10-2002 19:33									#143
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That would do it.

	07-10-2002 19:36									#144
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Do you mean "spend into a whole week a coffin with a guy killed by a drunk driver" ?

	07-10-2002 19:38									#145
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That would be cruel. They should have to spend it with the guy strapped to their back...

	07-10-2002 19:47									#146
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On a hot summer day, in a dog park!

	07-10-2002 19:48									#147
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Maybe we could have the undertaker skimp on the formaldehyde too...

	07-10-2002 19:49									#148
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ya dogs don't like formaldahyde.

	07-10-2002 22:13									#149
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Comparing the right to life, to the right to have a fag and drink...

Women, believe it or not, are not brood mares. Becoming pregnant does not abrogate your rights.

	07-10-2002 22:22									#150
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In the Bible (if you believe in that), becoming pregnant is a curse set on Eve and to all females to come after.

In politics, having a baby is not a right.

Becoming pregnant does not abolish rights, yet drinking and smoking while pregnant is known to cause serious damage to the unborn child. If one is to consider the unborn child "a living being, or a human", which I do, than yes; becoming pregnant does abrigate their rights. For there are laws that forbid a mother from hurting their children, mentally and physically.

The real debate should be if an unbron child is a living human being. From that outcome one could draw a conclusion that does compare the right to life to the right to have a smoke and a drink.

For this same reason I can no longer smoke in any of the bars where I live (CA).