10-10-2002 03:37									#31
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Oh, I just realized that I have two empty spots, not one. Tell me where to use them.
1. England (Canada and Australia)
2. USA (Israel)
3. Japan (South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore)
4. EU (EU countries)
5. Russia (Little Asian countries, some of East Europe)
6. Southeast Asia (Thailand, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Cambodia, Vietnam)
7. Mexico
8. Andean Nations (Peru, Bolivia, Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador) (I think it needs a better name because Venezuela Colombia Ecuador Guyana and Suriname aren't very Andean)
9. Mercosur (Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, Argentina, Chile)
10. South Africa (All non-arab Africa)
11. Arab States (North Africa and ME)
12. Persian States (Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan)
13. China (NK, Mongolia, Nepal, Tibet)
14. India

So I have two spots. How should I use them? Maybe seperate Eastern Europe? Or make Australia or Canada their own state?

	10-10-2002 04:15									#32
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currently you have on each continent these many civs (some civs more than once, so split)

- asia: 6.5 (!!)
- north america (+middle america +caribbeans): 2.33
- europe (- russia): 2.33
- south america: 2
- africa: 1.5
- australia+oceania: 0.33

so i'd say, don't add any more in asia.
there still is geographical potential in africa and australia.

my suggestions:
- you could split your england-civ into
a) "commonwealth w/o australia)" and
b) "australia+oceania"

- split south africa into two civs:
c) "south african states" (including RSA, ZIM, Kenya)
d) "middle/saharan african states" (bordering states are: cameroon, central afr. rep., sudan, ethiopia, somalia, border near the 5th degree longitude).
here's a great map:

both civ's aren't very powerful - but that is the status quo.


edit: posted too early

Last edited by sabrewolf on 10-10-2002 at 04:24

	10-10-2002 04:29									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior Oh, I just realized that I have two empty spots, not one. Tell me where to use them. 1. England (Canada and Australia) 2. USA (Israel) 3. Japan (South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore) 4. EU (EU countries) 5. Russia (Little Asian countries, some of East Europe) 6. Southeast Asia (Thailand, Bangladesh, Indonesia, Cambodia, Vietnam) 7. Mexico 8. Andean Nations (Peru, Bolivia, Venezuela, Colombia, Ecuador) (I think it needs a better name because Venezuela Colombia Ecuador Guyana and Suriname aren't very Andean) 9. Mercosur (Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, Argentina, Chile) 10. South Africa (All non-arab Africa) 11. Arab States (North Africa and ME) 12. Persian States (Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan) 13. China (NK, Mongolia, Nepal, Tibet) 14. India So I have two spots. How should I use them? Maybe seperate Eastern Europe? Or make Australia or Canada their own state?

to be ethnically correct, give kashmir to the persian civ (majority are muslim and from persian descent). but nepal should belong to the indian civ (90% of nepalese are hindu)

	10-10-2002 04:30									#34
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Land unit distribution:

I am not too sure how good my first estimates are so FEEDBACK PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

Units in the same section are upgrades of each other. As you move left to right they get more advanced. All units have their own graphics. There are multiple types of each level of tank.

Attachment: landunits.jpg
This has been downloaded 355 time(s).

Last edited by Jaguar on 10-10-2002 at 04:38

	10-10-2002 04:32									#35
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Ok I think that I will go back to having 2.5 African ones... going to modify the chart. We're cross-posting.

	10-10-2002 04:33									#36
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don't forget to power up the present day geographically small - but economically or politically mighty civs (US, UK+canada, EU, japan, maybe china too (allthough quite large))

	10-10-2002 04:39									#37
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in comparison with "real life",
i think japan is too strong in your list but the US is too weak (US and israel probably have a more powerful army than all others together). also russia isn't that strong any more either. otherwise it looks quite good.

are you going to include nukes?

ok, i'll stop posting (bedtime) for now, so we won't be cross-posting any more

btw: who's that pretty avatar of yours?

	10-10-2002 04:42									#38
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Ok I'll make Japan weaker, and US stronger. In reality they're probably twice as strong in every area as the EU but that doesn't balance well.

Nukes will be included, possibly a medium range sort.

I think I made Russia pretty weak, but I'll take away some units. They'll be wimps except for their nukes.

My avatar is Jessica Alba.

	10-10-2002 04:54									#39
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BTW what do you all think is a reasonable number of ICBMs and tac-nukes? I'd say roughly 15 ICBMs and 6 Tacticals for the US, 12 and 8 for Russia, and 5 and 2 for EU. England gets 2 ICBMs and a tactical. Persian States gets 3 tacticals, India gets 4. Is this good?

	10-10-2002 06:19									#40
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Give Russia an economic disadvantage, but a military advantage. Give it more units than it can support (like the situation in real life). And Tass, nukes weren't exactly designed for battlefield usage.

I think you must make eastern Europe a seperate civ. That's a very important area, and lumping it into Russia would be a bad idea IMO.

Also, I think India and Persia have a bit too many nukes. Give them 2 each, perhaps.

Something that you have to realize (unfortunately), the US is heading more towards small, quick elite strike forces rather than large formations, like MA. On the same note, many countries (not Western though), for the most part have more armored units than America, but it's America's quality that makes their army so much more effective, even though it is larger than most other armed forces.

Militarily, Japan isn't very powerful (though it could be), but economically it's a superpower rivalling the United States. Make sure you represent that.

One final thing, I think you should keep both Canada and Australia in the Commonwealth. Making Australia its own civ would be kind of odd.

	10-10-2002 08:28									#41
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Silly commies, always trying to carve an empire for themselves.

	11-10-2002 05:10									#42
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Trip:

Making Eastern Europe its own civ: Probably gonna happen.

Russia: Units will stay as are. I will fiddle around with Russia's improvements and terrain to make its economy weak. It will bring in only 50 gpt or so, compared to maybe 500gpt for Japan and 300 for China.

US Army: Although I agree that the US has a lot of special elite forces, it has a large regular army as well. It should have more tanks than, say, China, because even if China had weaker tanks, it could upgrade relatively quickly and become more powerful than the US. It should have more unites than EU and England because it is more militarily oriented.

Nukes: Persia and India will have less. I didn't realize that I gave India more warheads than England.


Tass: Again, Russia's army will stay as is in the first chart. I think they'll be fun to play as - you attack the Persian States, which gives you some oil money, (enough to upgrade your army) and then you can build up and take a big country down.

	11-10-2002 05:37									#43
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Well, Russia should be 5th best army behind US, UK, EU, and China. Also 2nd most nukes, about 2nd largest army, and 6th highest GNP.

BTW, a new unit, the Technical (truck armed with machine gun) will be added shortly. Also, does anyone know if there is a 2nd marine graphic somewhere? So I can have modern marines as well as early marines. modern inf. will also be able to do amphibious assaults, but modern marines will have higher attack.

	11-10-2002 06:33									#44
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They're only two nukes less than US. No big deal.

	11-10-2002 08:16									#45
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That all sounds pretty good to me.

I still think that China should have more tanks than the USA, but of much inferior quality. Israel, Britain and the EU all have tanks around the same quality of the US (Germany's newest model of the Leopard II is actually the best tank in the world).

	11-10-2002 09:22									#46
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What tanks should China get? I have every tank on apolyton and on CFC (about 25) but I'm not sure which are suitable.

	13-10-2002 23:16									#47
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Finished Europe, working on Africa. Africa should be done sometime on monday.

BTW don't pay any attention to those random cities off on continents I haven't started on yet... I don't know where they came from, but they're incorrectly placed and will be deleted.

	14-10-2002 09:08									#48
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I really like the scenario you're creating, hope it's finished soon!
One doubt though: have you thought about the leaders for each Civ? since most of them are going to be multinational, that could become a problem.
One suggestion: I agree with my fellow countryman about making 'mercosur' a civ, but perhaps a better name could be thought of (south american union??). You can probably think of a better name.

Keep up the good work!

Last edited by Adc on 14-10-2002 at 11:03

	14-10-2002 20:29									#49
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quote: Originally posted by Jaguar Warrior What tanks should China get? I have every tank on apolyton and on CFC (about 25) but I'm not sure which are suitable.

MOst of china's tank fleet is made up of Type 59 tanks, which are copies, of lower quality, of the T-55, so this shoud be their most numerous tank. They also have type-85 tanks, which are more like T-72's or 80's, so once you get such graphics, they should be used for China. The main issue may be making a difference between Chinese and russian tanks, since they look the same mostl, but Russian tanks are better. Also, many Arab (such as iraq) and 'Persian' (Pakistan) state also have lots of Type-59's.

	18-10-2002 04:55									#50
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Thank you, helpful post. A T-72 graphic is coming out soon at CFC.

	19-10-2002 07:36									#51
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Maybe, you could make Modern Infantry a UU for US, EU, and maybe Russia. Make China use regular infantry, and make sure they have many of them.

Finally, could you set it so that "Draft" does not creat Mech/Mobil Infantry, at least in 3rd world nations? Use the regular Inf, or even the Viet Cong/NVA (in asian countries).

	19-10-2002 20:39									#52
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hey jaguar warrior

how's the progress? any chance of this coming out soon or will you wait 'till PTW?

	19-10-2002 23:26									#53
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I don't intend on blocking infantry for anyone. China's infantry is modern. Giving them WWII infantry as their main defense is silly. However, I am not making mechs draftable, or upgradeable from regular infantry. I mean, your town is under attack. You hand the civilians each the keys to a fully armored vehicle??? I don't think so. You hand em an automatic and tell em to go defend the town.

So Modern Infantry will be the only draftables. They will upgrade to NeOmegas laser infantry, which will be the end of the line for infantry. (I think I'm gonna go a little into the future.) I also will add the futuristic infantry by balou from CFC somewhere. (It has a drop animation and I need an upgrade for paras.)

I think level's hover tank will be the upgrade for mech infantry, and NeOmega's laser tank will be the upgrade for all modern armor types (T-72, M1 Abrams, Merkava 4, that French Tank I don't remember the name of, and Leopard II) I'm somewhat ambivalent about mechs. They're kinda far-fetched. However I might include one The Dropship will upgrade from the helicopter. Stealth fighters and bombers are probably ok future era units, but I would rather have some more advanced air units (so look out for them please.)

Also upgrading ships could be a problem. There aren't any future ships coming. But we'll see.

A list of new units that will most likely be in this scenario:

Infantry:

North Vietnamese Infantry (Asian infantry)
Modern Infantry
Laser Infantry
Balou's Future Infantry
Modern Marine
Modern Para (I forget the graphics I'm using for the Modern Marine and Para, but I spotted them and I know they're out there.)

Armored/Mechanized:

Merkava 4
T72
T55
T34/76
T34
T29
Leopard II
Leopard
Tiger
Panther
Sherman
Churchill
MarkIV (Yes, some African countries will still have these )
Renault (And some will still have these)
AV7 (and these too)
Lancia IZM armored car
Laser Tank
Hover Tank
Modern French Tank (I forget its name but its at CFC and near completion.)
Flak Halftrack
Technical
APC
Carden-Lloyd Tankette
Crocodile

Perhaps some mechwalker types.

Navy:

Advanced Sub
Halifax class
Aegis Destroyer
Type 42
Modern Frigate
Early Battleship
Yamato Class
Cruise Transport

Airforce:
B-52 Bomber
Dropship
B1-B Lancer
Apache Helicopter
Hind Helicopter
Scud Missile launcher (not really air, but air related)
Penguin anti-ship missile


As you can see, I really need to look at Airforce more. I think everything else is good. As you can see I'm not gonna be skimpy on the armored vehicles.

I expect to release something before PTW, maybe a version with just firaxis units, and then after PTW I'll include their new terrain improvements, new units, etc. When is PTW gonna be out anyway? I look forward to the new options it will bring.

Anyway I'm gonna go do Africa now. That will leave me with just Asia and Australia to place cities. I think I'm also gonna add a few more cities to Canada.

More later.

	19-10-2002 23:32									#54
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Looks like a good list.

PtW comes out in early November (supposedly).

And the French tank you're referring to is the Leclerc.

As far as a 'modern' Soviet-made tank, you may want to use the T-80 or the T-90 instead. T-72s, while still usable, can be taken apart easily by newer models like the Abrams, Leopard II and Merkava, especially since they don't have reactive armor.

One more thing, do you plan on adding the modern British tank, the Challenger?

	20-10-2002 02:04									#55
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Challenger? Is that at CFC? I must've missed that one. It shall certainly be added if someone has made one.

Also are there any T-80 or T-90 graphics yet? Although Russia won't have many to start with, it needs an upgrade, and it's not gonna be any of the Modern tanks I have.

	20-10-2002 02:10									#56
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There's no Challenger, so that's probably why you don't have it on the list.

And there's a T-90 tank in the works now, I believe.

	20-10-2002 04:01									#57
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Its ok though cause I think that England uses the M1.

	20-10-2002 08:45									#58
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I saw the T-90 preview now. Also I have decided that Level's Mech and NeOmega's BlitzRAV will be the only mechs. They look the most primitive of the bunch. However if I have them upgrade, then there won't be a good defensive unit I can put against them.
Apparently NeOmega is gonna be doing 2 futuristic fighters and 2 futuristic bombers. I probably won't do any future stuff until they are done. I also hope for some future transports.

	22-10-2002 06:04									#59
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What do you think of these unit stats? I based these on what would be cool and fun, but I don't want any glaring inaccuracies, so please point out anything that is wrong.

I love playing with the stealthy jeeps and technicals and stuff. They appear out nowhere and attack infrastructure, capture workers, unload huge stacks of infantry on resource squares, etc. (Well only I can do the unloading huge stacks of infantry cause the AI is incompetent at it.)

So anyway, point out any problems you see. Units are approximately in order of discovery. Units with no cost cannot be built as all civs are already beyond there in tech. There are still some floating around though.

Attachment: landstatsalpha.jpg
This has been downloaded 211 time(s).

	22-10-2002 06:16									#60
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Oh, I forgot:

Futuristic Light Tank: See subs. That way you have the Laser tanks which do heavy fighting, and the light tank which tracks down APCs and destroys them.



BTW, If I had two mech units, what would you do for their stats? (With my current scale)