20-12-2002 05:37									#121
	Suffering from ads?

I have 15 civs for the Civ3 and PTW 100x100 versions, 16 for the Civ3 256x204 version, and the PTW 256x204 civs are still debatable.

	20-12-2002 14:04									#122
	Increase Your PM Length

i won't be playing 256x204 (out of time and computer power reasons), but you could use all civ-slots in PTW and make 31 (!!!) civs...

	21-12-2002 02:45									#123
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

My mod for PTW has 28 right now. Fun to play a tiny map.

	21-12-2002 09:27									#124
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

28... perfect ... i think i should hurry up to buy a new computer

	21-12-2002 22:36									#125
	Civ Possibilities Support Apolyton

Here are the sugestions for inclusions that some of us came up with a while back.

1. US(+ Canada, Israel)

2. EU (+Turkey, Baltics, Switzerland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Romania, Poland, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia etc.)

3. China (+Vietnam, Laos, North Korea)

4. CIS (+Mongolia)

5. India (+Nepal, Sri Lanka)

6. Arab League (Morroco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, Iraq, Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, and the Gulf States)

7. APEC (from Indonesia to S. Korea, including Singapore and ?Japan?)

8. MercoSur (Brazil, Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, Chile)

9. Central America and Carribean Basin (inc. Mexico and Cuba)

10. Andean Pact (Peru, Colombia, Ecuador, Venezuela, Bolivia and the Guayanas)

11. African Union (Sub-sahara Africa)

12. Australia (+ NZ, Papua New Guinea)

13. Independent Islamic States (Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran, Bangladesh)

Does anyone have any opinions on this list? Here's a link to that previous thread.

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...20&pagenumber=7

	21-12-2002 23:17									#126
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I think your decisions for world blocs are, for the most part, right-on. However, just a few changes: Iran and Pakistan should not belong to the same bloc; they are opposing powers in Afghanistan. Additionally, Iraq should probably not be thrown in a bloc with other Arab states that have been its traditional enemies. Venezuela's independence should be reflected as well.

Maybe Venezuela and Iraq could be linked? They are not linked in real life, but they are similar in that they are both so isolated.

Finally, it would be great to study the various rebel movements in sub-saharan africa, where rebel armed forces are often as powerful as states themselves, find out whom they are allied with/armed by, and join them to these blocs. Especially instructive would be the two major blocs in the Congo war, one behind Kabila and the other behind the eastern rebels.

This would also provide a great "fuse" to start a world war in this game...

Overall, though, your suggestions are excellent. In my opinion...

	23-12-2002 11:05									#127
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

This is a random suggestion and very off topic but perhaps you should put the American Forbidden Palace on the west coast in San Fransisco or something so that the west coast doesn't become the corruption capital of the world (we do have a rather large economy over here).

	23-12-2002 20:00									#128
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by Zwang This is a random suggestion and very off topic but perhaps you should put the American Forbidden Palace on the west coast in San Fransisco or something so that the west coast doesn't become the corruption capital of the world (we do have a rather large economy over here).

Yeah, that's a good idea, but maybe it should be in LA. I hate to say, as I'm from San Francisco, but, you know, Hollywood... or someplace inbetween (Silicon Valley).

Definitely put as many pollution-generating improvements as possible in LA. And is there a "soul-crushing misery" improvement you could put there as well? (just kidding, la-la-landers).

	23-12-2002 22:10									#129
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by Yahweh Sabaoth I think your decisions for world blocs are, for the most part, right-on. However, just a few changes: Iran and Pakistan should not belong to the same bloc; they are opposing powers in Afghanistan. Additionally, Iraq should probably not be thrown in a bloc with other Arab states that have been its traditional enemies. Venezuela's independence should be reflected as well. Maybe Venezuela and Iraq could be linked? They are not linked in real life, but they are similar in that they are both so isolated. Finally, it would be great to study the various rebel movements in sub-saharan africa, where rebel armed forces are often as powerful as states themselves, find out whom they are allied with/armed by, and join them to these blocs. Especially instructive would be the two major blocs in the Congo war, one behind Kabila and the other behind the eastern rebels. This would also provide a great "fuse" to start a world war in this game... Overall, though, your suggestions are excellent. In my opinion...

It's very difficult to deal with the Arab countries. Iran is Pakistan's enemy, but an even worse enemy of Iraq. Meanwhile Iraq is an enemy of the rest of its neighbors. So they're both kind of antisocial countries that can't really be put in any group. However I'm going to have to put Pakistan and Iran together, and make Iraq Arab. There's no other way. In 204x256 PTW Iraq and Iran will be their own countries.

	25-12-2002 02:12									#130
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Dont frogot to take acount for the nuclear issue...


NUCLEAR POWERS


1. United States
2. Russia
3. China
4. United Kingdom
5. France
6. Pakistan
7. India
8. Israel
9.North Koeria

	25-12-2002 02:21									#131
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Maybe you could put in the "user made" leaderheads?

Theres no need to cut on the number os civ's you can have upto 31. the only thing is it takes little extra loading time...

	25-12-2002 02:40									#132
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

well North Korea soon anyway by the way it looks...

	25-12-2002 02:46									#133
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Iran and Pakistan are no longer enemys.

There little conflict with Pakistan arming the Talaban and Iran arming the Northen Allince is over.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2603563.stm

as you see here the heads od states are meeting to increase trade, and boast ties...

Iraq and Iran are NOT enemys of each other, it just a certin ruler of Iraq who is casuing problems...

The people of these countires feel a bond.

	26-12-2002 19:54									#134
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by mazzz Dont frogot to take acount for the nuclear issue... NUCLEAR POWERS 1. United States 2. Russia 3. China 4. United Kingdom 5. France 6. Pakistan 7. India 8. Israel 9.North Koeria

You could also throw in a few countries that are speculated to have nuclear weapons, to add the rogue element to the game... South Africa, most of central Asia...

	26-12-2002 19:57									#135
	Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by mazzz Iran and Pakistan are no longer enemys. There little conflict with Pakistan arming the Talaban and Iran arming the Northen Allince is over. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2603563.stm as you see here the heads od states are meeting to increase trade, and boast ties... Iraq and Iran are NOT enemys of each other, it just a certin ruler of Iraq who is casuing problems... The people of these countires feel a bond.

Oh, I don't know... the people of the countries do feel a bond, but 8 years of war followed by continuing tensions can create some emnity, especially since Iran still operates small armed forces inside northern Iraq...

As for Khatami's peacemaking role, he's quite exceptional as a reformer and peacemaker, a Gorbachev-like figure who doesn't necessarily represent Iran's "state interests". I'm a big Khatami fan personally, but I would still not put Iran and Pakistan in a bloc... but, I guess that depends how much space you have for seperate Civs!

	26-12-2002 21:30									#136
	Suffering from ads?

most centtral asian countries? I did hear about that? please explain...

I do know that the Ukraine,Khankastan, and Georgia all had some after the USSR broke up buy SUPOSSEDLY destoryed them all...


"Pakistan and Iran voice Iraq concern"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2606561.stm

"During the visit the Iranian president not only declared that his country plans to build a nuclear power plant, he forcefully defended Pakistan's nuclear weapons programme. "

	26-12-2002 21:37									#137
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

so youd have to give these nations easy acess to uranium and alluminm...

South Arfica said they destroyed them, and even if they did im sure they still have the know how to make new ones...

	26-12-2002 21:53									#138
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

quote: Originally posted by mazzz most centtral asian countries? I did hear about that? please explain... I do know that the Ukraine,Khankastan, and Georgia all had some after the USSR broke up buy SUPOSSEDLY destoryed them all...

There's a lot of evidence that not only do Ukraine, Kazahkstan and Georgia still have nuclear weapons, but that they and Uzbekistan, Tajikstan, and others.

quote: "Pakistan and Iran voice Iraq concern" http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/2606561.stm "During the visit the Iranian president not only declared that his country plans to build a nuclear power plant, he forcefully defended Pakistan's nuclear weapons programme. "

All the Muslim powers stick together in public relations when confronted with America, but then again, so do the Europeans, yet the bickering between the EU countries and the Arab League countries is notorious...

	26-12-2002 23:04									#139
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

I've been working on a 21 cent mod, Bush vs Saddam. I liked reading the world bloc discussion. I'm doing mine a bit differently, creating a United Nations civ comprised of South America, Africa, and various Asian countries. What I wanted to suggest is creating a new governent called Islamic, would be similar to Communism, but with more corruption, Elite Diplomats, no War Weariness. This could be the favorite government of the Arab League, Persian states and Indonesia.

Cheers,
JP

	26-12-2002 23:31									#140
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Potter I've been working on a 21 cent mod, Bush vs Saddam. I liked reading the world bloc discussion. I'm doing mine a bit differently, creating a United Nations civ comprised of South America, Africa, and various Asian countries. What I wanted to suggest is creating a new governent called Islamic, would be similar to Communism, but with more corruption, Elite Diplomats, no War Weariness. This could be the favorite government of the Arab League, Persian states and Indonesia. Cheers, JP

I don't know... the Islamic countries of the modern day are notoriously corrupt, but taken as a whole, Islam's history is no more corrupt than that of Christianity.

A better choice would be a modernization of Despotism... Called the "Secular Republic" or something like that, which could be, essentially, Despotism where you pay for improvements with cash instead of citizen's lives... because all these "Islamic" governments, discounting Iran and Saudi Arabia, are secular dictatorships, with a few elements of democracy and Koranic rule thrown in.

	03-01-2003 23:49									#141
	Inflate your Upload Space

JW, have you managed to finish one of the versions over xmas/new year-time? i'm eager to play-test it

	04-01-2003 01:28									#142
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I'm working 30 minutes a day, I should be doing more. My sister comes home from college for christmas and she plays civ non-stop. (she made the decision not to bring civ to school, so she plays as much as she can at home)

I'm enjoying Teturkhan TOT v1.70 too much as well.

	07-01-2003 07:47									#143
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

id definitely like to see lots of infantry units if you can

	12-01-2003 16:40									#144
	You are making a mistake Got spare money?

All The Idea of coneccting israel to the united states in wrong. israel is one of the most powerfull nations ever been in the world. the fact that our territory is not huge like the soviet unions or the US dosen't means that israel should be under another goverment. especially not under the USA.
The same is about Korea.
There was an Idea to make a 31 nations in this scenario, that will be much better because every country will be under it's own goverment. and there will be more civilizations--> more wars and more trade routs.
think about it.
Here's the list of the most powerfull nations in the world:

1. Soviet Union
2. USA
3. China
4. Israel
5. Korea(both)
6. India
7. Japan
8. The Muslim League(Morroco, Libya, Palestine(if
posible),S.Arabia, Egypt, Lebanon and so on)
9. Canada
10. australia(Surely deserves to be independet) with all
the islands around(Tasmania,new zeland...)
11. African League(all the non muslim countries)
12. South Africa
13. Iraq
14. EU(Italy, Spain, chez respuplic...)
15. United Kingdom(england, Ireland, iceland)
16. Duetchland(Germany and austria)
17. Scandinavia(denmark, norway, Finland...)
18. Brazil
19. Argentina
20. The United S.America(Chili,Uraguay...)
21. The united M.America(Mexico, Guatamalla, Cuba...)
22. Turkey
23. Pakistan(they have a nukes!)
24. The United Far East(Mongolia,Thailand...)
25. France
26. Asian Muslims(Indonesia, Philipines...)

now I'm out of Ideas, but this is a nice idea, It covers the most of the worlds nations.

	12-01-2003 17:26									#145
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Che, you're right that israel is a major power in the world (considering nuclear waepons and organised "classical" army).

but it wouldn't make sence at all to give them an own civ in the game. because at best you could just fit 2 cities in that small slot surrounded by arabs and the mediterranean. even with a lot stronger forces than the neighbors, it would be impossible to survive, except if you declare war in the first few rounds and take powerhouses of your neighbors.

and you must be honest: military strength is not all. population also counts. and 6 million (of which quite a few are arabs) are definetly not much. actually, switzerland has 7 million, austria 8, but noone of us seriously asks to have an own civ in the game
territory is also an issue: 20'000 square km (half of CH, a quarter of A), of which 2/3 are unlivable (lakes, deserts) and a part of the rest is actually land that doesn't really belong to you....

so no matter if you like or dislike israel, for game purposes, an own civ doesn't make sence at all...

	12-01-2003 17:31									#146
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

anyway, you list doesn't make sence at all. the UK is a lot more powerful than most of the others above them. definetly more than japan. also france is far down. considering they are one of the 5 big nuclear countries...

otoh, the "muslim league" isn't as powerful as you mentioned. and pakistan is definetly stronger.

maybe you should consider saying what counted for you, i you do a ranked list

	12-01-2003 17:35									#147
	Increase the size of your Attachments

jaguar warrior:
will you consider extending the tech tree? because it's a "modern world" scenario, most civs will have most technologies (except e.g. smart weapons and integrated defense).

you could have very expensive techs (move the tech rate down a lot) which enable improved cruise missiles (more firepower), stronger modern armours, better bombers, etc.

	12-01-2003 19:16									#148
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: There was an Idea to make a 31 nations in this scenario, that will be much better because every country will be under it's own goverment.

I agree. We need a scenario were all the nations have their own government. Too many scenarios group Isreal and US and too many also group Europe. This scenario will be much better if the nations are kept seperate. It doesn't matter if the balance of power is off.

	12-01-2003 20:00									#149
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

there are around 250 nations in the world...!?!?!?!
which to chose?
- the most powerful? --> africa will be virtually empty
- the most populated (absolute)? --> smaller nations lost
- the most populated (density)? --> no russia, no canada
- the biggest (area)? --> no denser nations.

you see... not so easy.

	12-01-2003 20:41									#150
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

It's pretty obvious that not all the countries can have their own goverments.
for example, i'm sorry if anybody offended, but there is no sence in making Nigiria,philipins or paraguay independet civilizations so you can group them into one alliance that will be much stronger.
and about the selection, you should pick countries that have an important role in the world of these days, so, countries like Israel and Iraq, should be under their own goverments. while countries like greece that have no effection on world's history shouldn't.
so countries, even like S.Arabia in second thought should be under thier own goverment, Even they have a very weak Military, they are affecting the worlds financial situation.

And one final thing, about the list that I wrote, I just wrote the countries that I could remember at the moment, and i didn't tried to rank them.