07-10-2002 17:50									#1
	The Selfishness of Remaining Childless "For Your Career" Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Professional couples

Their ancestors have spent millennia fighting disease, war and famine in order to produce an offspring who cares more about getting an extra 10k a year than to continue the family line.

This is also a main reason why crime is increasing. What would be good parents become parents less than bad parents, as that skill which makes them a good parent is also something making them more valuable in the workforce.

You'd think it was never possible for a family to live on a single income.

	07-10-2002 17:56									#2
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It's not in the south east. Unless you have some incredibly high paying job.

Who cares? If people don't have kids there's more chance yours will be successful. Oh god... your kids. What a terrifying thought.

	07-10-2002 18:00									#3
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We have a Bodington Crescent near here.

	07-10-2002 18:31									#4
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Fascism.

You impose a standard of living to people. You don't like to see people free ?

	07-10-2002 18:33									#5
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He doesn't. He wants everyone to be forced to behave as he thinks it's acceptable.

	07-10-2002 18:41									#6
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I think it's great - we have enough people in the World already!

Interesting point though, are we at risk of reversing our evolutionary gains?

It seems (generally speaking) that in the Western World anyway, our most able and intelligent members of society are reproducing far less than the less educated and/or less intelligent members...

Could it be that the stupid will inherit the Earth, or is it that there'll just be more slaves for the rich and powerful?

	07-10-2002 19:01									#7
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Freedom isn't everything. With rights come responsibilities.

	07-10-2002 19:08									#8
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The professionals have so many affairs that their "illegitimate" children outnumber the (poor) traditional family units number of children.

	07-10-2002 19:11									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Freedom isn't everything. With rights come responsibilities.

Hummm, yes and so what ?

We're not robots obliged to produce other robots.

	07-10-2002 19:18									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Boddington's Freedom isn't everything. With rights come responsibilities.

You should tell that to your ancestors who spent millenia fighting for it.

	07-10-2002 19:30									#11
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hmmm-- there seems to be a mixture of two separate ideas here. The title talks about the selfishness of childlessness while in the text he seems to berate two-income families. To this I say

1. I always thought it was more selfish to HAVE children when not willing or able to care for them properly. While it is possible that a person's motivation for remaining childless can be selfish ( wants a more luxurious lifestyle etc), the act of NOT having children hurts no one.

2. Double income households-- Its a reality that in most families now, both parents work. There is nothing in that fact alone that means that they cannot be excellent parents.

	07-10-2002 19:36									#12
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I've seen quite a few delinquent children from two professional families. The parents were too busy to spend any time with their kids. The kids were raised by nannies, day care workers, etc. They would have been better off not having children.
But that is really irrelevant to this discussion. This is just stewie trying to force his morality on everyone else. Which is real funny considering that it in another thread, he brags about being a bad boy to double the amount of girls that he's ****ged. A real model of morality.

RAH

	07-10-2002 19:39									#13
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I notice that all Boddington's propositions are about restricting women freedom.

Boddington is our local Taliban.

	07-10-2002 19:44									#14
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I await the day that Bods says something that he beleives rather than something that will get a response

	07-10-2002 19:47									#15
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Rah, he didn't say he'd got his cheney wet, just that he got off with them, which in UK slang implies making out not making the beast with two backs.

	07-10-2002 19:47									#16
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quote: Originally posted by rah I've seen quite a few delinquent children from two professional families. The parents were too busy to spend any time with their kids. The kids were raised by nannies, day care workers, etc. They would have been better off not having children. RAH

Ya -- there are ample examples of both excellent and very poor parenting from all parts of the economic spectrum. While the money from two incomes may provide parents with additional resources, it is no guarantee of good parenting . . .

But two jobs does not mean poor or absentee parenting either. . . Some friends of mine are a two lawyer family with two children. he goes to work at 5 am so he can be home before they get out of school while she goes to work around 10 am and works later--

MY parents both worked as professionals but had positions that were essentially 9 to 5 and were always there for me when I needed them. So I hate the generalizations about 2 income families

	07-10-2002 19:49									#17
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If two working parent's is bad wouldn't that imply that the best parents are those that are both unemployed?

	07-10-2002 19:55									#18
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quote: Originally posted by MikeH Rah, he didn't say he'd got his cheney wet, just that he got off with them, which in UK slang implies making out not making the beast with two backs.

Thanks, for the clarification

Flubber, yes you are correct, I didn't mean to make it sound like a generalization. Especially since both my wife and I are professionals that work a lot of hours, yet believe that we have done a good job raising our daughter. On the other hand, we never had a second child because we were worried about the extra amount of time and money and whether we'd have enough of either. If someone sees that as selfish, they can kiss my ***.

	07-10-2002 20:00									#19
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Do you want really that bod kisses your *** ??

	07-10-2002 20:02									#20
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would you rather we produce out of control until we hit world wide famine?

	07-10-2002 20:03									#21
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With tongues or not?

	07-10-2002 20:33									#22
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My parents also both have jobs, but I turned out ok.
While us kids were young (I was the last, by 5 years) my mom only worked as a supply teacher. Now we're older, both my parents work full time.
Fortunately both work in schools (my mom's a gr. 3 teacher, my dad's the school board's psychologist), so they work when I'm at school, and get the summer off when I do.

Now, we could just follow the asian route (I'm not sure if it's Japan or China) and restrict families to one kid total, one kid minimum. Or not

	07-10-2002 21:17									#23
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Uh-huh.

	07-10-2002 21:30									#24
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You don't worry about that though right Boris?

	07-10-2002 21:40									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger You don't worry about that though right Boris?

I like being in no-win situations. Either I'm selfish for not wanting to have a kid, or I am evil and trying to corrupt children for wanting to have/adopt them.

In the U.S., at least, it is actually more selfish to have more children. My taxes have to go to support public education whether I have kids in it or not. And you don't have to pay more taxes to it based on the number of kids you have (in fact, you get TAX BREAKS for more kids). So I am footing a disproportionate amount of the bill to send some breeder's brats to public school.

But I don't mind, as I support public education. Now who is selfish?

	07-10-2002 21:40									#26
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The world is overpopulated by people who think it is selfish not to have loads of brats.

Save the planet, eat a kid today.

	07-10-2002 21:48									#27
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I don't see why it is selfish not to have children.

Now I understand it's better for both the children and the parents when the, uh, procreations are done earlier. However, this holds only if the kids can be raised in a nice environment where child support is not a problem.

Otherwise nobody wins.

	07-10-2002 21:49									#28
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I'm so happy I've put Spink on ignore.

	07-10-2002 21:52									#29
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I agree that having a child is a responsibility that is best handled by one parent staying home to take care of the child. Neglected children are generally worse off than those that feel needed, wanted,and loved, at least more than the careers (or other activities) of their parents.

My cousin and her husband both work and they completely neglect their kids.

The issue IS true for bothe sides of the coin; working professionals and poor lazy people. Yet being a responsible parent does not equal being a good parent. The fine art of parenting and the masterwork of parenting when both parents work is something that is totally debatable, yet totally acheivable as long as the parents are first responsible (from pre-conception to post-HS graduation) and second can honestly prove their love to their child.

	07-10-2002 21:56									#30
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Why are poor people automatically lazy? What about lazy rich people?

I know plenty of kids who had one stay-at-home parent in a wealthy family that ended up being a spoiled, drug-using sh*ts.

My mom and dad both worked fullt-ime jobs, and my brother and I both grew into stable, healthy and productive adults. I think two working parents can do a fine job, so long as they are two responsible working parents. Irresponsible parents will likely produce irresponsible children whether they both work or not.