09-10-2002 17:38									#1
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quote: EU to Recommend 10 New Members BRUSSELS, Belgium (AP) - The European Union (news - web sites) headquarters will recommend Wednesday that 10 eastern neighbors be invited to join the continental body in 2004 in its most ambitious expansion ever. However, the European Commission (news - web sites) will recommend that Turkey's application be kept on hold — a move that will displease Ankara and Washington. The European Commission will not recommend a date for beginning entry talks with Turkey until Ankara further improves its economy, finances and human rights, according to the draft report on the EU's post-Cold War eastward expansion. The United States, however, wants the EU to be more welcoming to Turkey because Washington considers it a loyal and strategically important Muslim ally in the war on terrorism. The EU headquarters opened membership talks with Cyprus, Estonia, Hungary, Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovenia in March 1998 and with Malta, Romania, Bulgaria, Latvia, Lithuania and Slovakia in October 1999. In a report to be issued later Wednesday, the European Commission will recommend that EU leaders invite all those candidates — except Romania and Bulgaria — into the body, increasing its membership to 25. The invitations are expected to be offered at an EU summit in Denmark in mid-December. After that, national parliaments of the current members and the applicant countries must approve the deal. The draft of the report said the 10 candidates have made "considerable" progress in recent years to get their economies and legislation in shape for EU membership. "These countries will be ready for membership from the beginning of 2004," the draft report said, adding that much work remains to be done "in a limited number of specific areas." While Romania and Bulgaria are democracies, they unlikely will be ready for membership until at least 2007 given their weak economies, the draft said. Turkey is declared the weakest link because it "does not fully meet the political (or) economic" membership criteria, the report said. It cites restrictions on freedom of expression, the torture of prisoners and not enough civilian control over Turkey's powerful armed forces that long have been a power behind the throne. To meet EU norms, Turkey in August granted language rights to minorities and abolished the death penalty. Last February, after a severe financial crisis, Turkey embarked on economic reforms backed by a massive International Monetary Fund (news - web sites) aid package. The EU now gives Turkey $172 million a year in "pre-accession" aid to help judicial reforms, small businesses and modernize the country's civil service. The EU head office recommends doubling that amount. The planned EU enlargement in 2004 parallels the eastward expansion of the NATO (news - web sites) alliance. NATO leaders are to invite Slovenia, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Slovakia, Romania and Bulgaria to join that alliance in November. The enlargement of the EU faces some major hurdles, however. On Oct. 19, Ireland holds another referendum on the Treaty of Nice, which was signed in 2000 and makes it possible for the EU to bring in 10 or more newcomers. The Irish rejected the treaty in June 2001 and a similar vote next week will throw the expansion plan into disarray. Also, the EU hopes ongoing reconciliation talks between the Greek and Turkish Cypriot communities to end a 28-year division of the Mediterranean island will lead to all of Cyprus joining the union. If the U.N.-sponsored reconciliation fails, EU member Greece wants the Greek half of Cyprus to join or it will veto EU enlargement as a whole. Also, Ankara has warned it may annex the Turkish side of Cyprus if the north is excluded — a scenario with dangerous implications for Greece-Turkey relations. EU-Turkish relations long have known ups and downs. Although 96 percent of Turkey lies in Asia, the EU considers it a European nation. Turkey became an "associate member" in 1963. It formally applied for membership in 1987 but was turned down along with Morocco. In 1999, the EU leaders declared Turkey a candidate but held off on negotiations while opening talks with the 10 other neighbors.

	09-10-2002 17:42									#2
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I think they should all join as long as my taxes stop subsidizing the club med countries, Ireland and any of the new entrants

	09-10-2002 17:44									#3
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the whole world should join the EU.

	09-10-2002 17:47									#4
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quote: However, the European Commission (news - web sites) will recommend that Turkey's application be kept on hold — a move that will displease Ankara and Washington. The European Commission will not recommend a date for beginning entry talks with Turkey until Ankara further improves its economy, finances and human rights, according to the draft report on the EU's post-Cold War eastward expansion. The United States, however, wants the EU to be more welcoming to Turkey because Washington considers it a loyal and strategically important Muslim ally in the war on terrorism.

Who care what the US and Turkey think. Not me.

	09-10-2002 17:56									#5
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The Maltese have had the EU-symbol on their licence plates for years.

	09-10-2002 18:46									#6
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Do they have owls deliver the invitations?

	09-10-2002 18:55									#7
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi Do they have owls deliver the invitations?

One of the more bizzare posts i've seen

	09-10-2002 19:04									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Sagacious Dolphin quote: However, the European Commission (news - web sites) will recommend that Turkey's application be kept on hold — a move that will displease Ankara and Washington. The European Commission will not recommend a date for beginning entry talks with Turkey until Ankara further improves its economy, finances and human rights, according to the draft report on the EU's post-Cold War eastward expansion. The United States, however, wants the EU to be more welcoming to Turkey because Washington considers it a loyal and strategically important Muslim ally in the war on terrorism. Who care what the US and Turkey think. Not me.

Now you know how I feel about Europe.

	09-10-2002 19:05									#9
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Damn muggles don't understand politics.

	09-10-2002 19:08									#10
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I don't understand why Turkey is being given the cold shoulder. It is hugely in the EU's interest to claim Turkey irrevocably for the West.

	09-10-2002 19:08									#11
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quote: Originally posted by DaShi Damn muggles don't understand politics.

The fact that you are talking about Harry Potter makes even more bizzare

	09-10-2002 19:10									#12
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It saves the embarresment of a greek veto

	09-10-2002 19:11									#13
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Interesting. Can one nation do a veto like that?

It just seems not in the EU spirit of being able to work out differences through active diplomacy.

	09-10-2002 19:12									#14
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When was the last time Europe did anything that made sense, Dan?

	09-10-2002 19:13									#15
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Slow: True. True. It just baffles me that Europe doesn't want that real estate and 70 million pop. It has to be the most valuable real estate on the planet.

Edit: fixed pop. figure.

Last edited by DanS on 09-10-2002 at 19:21

	09-10-2002 19:17									#16
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Interesting. Can one nation do a veto like that? It just seems not in the EU spirit of being able to work out differences through active diplomacy.

They can but its embarrasing, they try not to raise any issue that would attract a veto.

Britain would veto some stuff so they are given opt outs instead.

Of course the french just ignore stuff they don't agree with

	09-10-2002 19:20									#17
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"Of course the french just ignore stuff they don't agree with"



Personally, I wouldn't give Greece so much deference (sorry Mark). It only has 10 million pop. There has to be some credit given to the greater good.

	09-10-2002 19:27									#18
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on some issues you have majority voting and on some you need a unanimous vote, it is all very complicated but apparently is designed to stop the lareg countries dominating the little ones.

although if ireland don't vote yes to the Nice treaty there aint gonna be any enlargement

	09-10-2002 19:34									#19
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"on some issues you have majority voting and on some you need a unanimous vote, it is all very complicated but apparently is designed to stop the lareg countries dominating the little ones."

Yes, this is very important. The U.S. spent a lot of time and creativity working out a compromise on this issue, so I can understand the tug-and-pull.

But 2% (Greece) or .5% (Ireland) of your pop stopping major actions? Don't know how that can continue.

	09-10-2002 19:37									#20
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Its one of the reasons the EU is not popular with some people especialy in the larger countries, all the little ones just stop any reform which lessens their handouts

	09-10-2002 19:40									#21
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There's enough teets for the suckling.

Does Ireland get a lot of handouts, even though they have probably now surpassed the U.S. in per capita GDP?

	09-10-2002 19:43									#22
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The International Olympics committee recognizes only five continents: North America, South America, Africa, Australia / Oceana, and Eurasia. I thinkt it's time that the EU stop being so provincial and consider opening itself up to membership to nations on the other side of its continent.

	09-10-2002 19:56									#23
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"I don't understand why Turkey is being given the cold shoulder. It is hugely in the EU's interest to claim Turkey irrevocably for the West."

It's not in our interest to have a half-democracy with no working legal system as a member. If it's so fantastic, the US can always admit Turkey as state 51.

"But 2% (Greece) or .5% (Ireland) of your pop stopping major actions? Don't know how that can continue."

It is a problem related to the structure of primary law; there are various solutions debated, we'll see what we come up with.

Btw, that percentage is about 6 % in the US IIRC, so it's not really a monumental difference.

	09-10-2002 19:59									#24
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quote: Originally posted by DanS There's enough teets for the suckling. Does Ireland get a lot of handouts, even though they have probably now surpassed the U.S. in per capita GDP?

IIRC EU grants account for 2-3% of their GDP.

	09-10-2002 20:00									#25
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quote: Originally posted by DanS Slow: True. True. It just baffles me that Europe doesn't want that real estate and 70 million pop. It has to be the most valuable real estate on the planet. Edit: fixed pop. figure.

Turkey would be accepted if it wasn't full of Turks.

I have reservations about Poland's (~40m) entry occuring with the others. Having Turkey enter at the same time would be way too big a step. Plus that porous eastern border doesn't fill me with confidence.

	09-10-2002 20:02									#26
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Not that you'd know it by the state the country is in.

I don't know where all that grant money goes, but your average Irish citizen doesn't see any of it. Although members of the Dail gave themselves a nice little raise recently I believe...

	09-10-2002 20:04									#27
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At least Ireland appear to have done something with theirs money, tiger economy and all,

I'm not sure what Greece has done with theirs.


(Waits for hostile replies)

	09-10-2002 20:11									#28
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"It's not in our interest to have a half-democracy with no working legal system as a member. If it's so fantastic, the US can always admit Turkey as state 51."

I wouldn't mind doing so. We had the South during slavery and Jim Crow. DC was a segregated town 40 years ago, even though majority black.

Point is, things can change quickly when encouraged.

The U.S. has been very consistent on this. We encouraged the reunification of Germany immediately after the fall of communism, remember!

	09-10-2002 20:22									#29
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"Point is, things can change quickly when encouraged."

And some things take more time. One thing Turkey can't complain about is lack of encouragement. It's just that only very recently something happened.

"We encouraged the reunification of Germany immediately after the fall of communism, remember!"

And this has what to do with Turkey?

	09-10-2002 20:26									#30
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I have found a link showing how much each country gets and receives from the EU.

I'm probably paying for Paiktis to do whatever he does

Edit i'll attach it this time
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/st...o_pays_what.stm