12-10-2002 19:15									#91
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But... why suiciding?

Do they have a name?

	12-10-2002 19:16									#92
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It's the man who set the bomb, and who was himself killed, they've identified. No information on his motives or whether he acted alone.

I'm inclined to say he and his may-be co-conspirators were thinking along lines of anti-globalization. Doesn't make any sense to blow up a shopping mall, but then making sense is no trademark for that site of the political spectrum.

	12-10-2002 19:17									#93
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No idea. The name hasn't been publicized yet.

	12-10-2002 19:19									#94
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I hope it was a suicider.

It's going to be a great argument in the ME threads in our favor.

	12-10-2002 19:23									#95
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The police didn't comment on much... what Aivo said, he was a born Finnish university student. Nothing on the motive, nothing on any background organizations, nothing.

	12-10-2002 19:25									#96
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My post came in a *tad* late.

quote: It's going to be a great argument in the ME threads in our favor.

Not!

	12-10-2002 19:38									#97
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quote: Originally posted by Eli I hope it was a suicider. It's going to be a great argument in the ME threads in our favor.

Yes. All those are arabs ;(

	12-10-2002 19:41									#98
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Just a small remark to all our Israeli Apolytoners...

1. Arabs had nothing to do with this incident.
2. This case is not a valid arguement for any Middle East related threads.
3. If you don't know what you talk about, then just stay quiet.

	12-10-2002 19:50									#99
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J/K, and i hope that Eli not enought crazy to say this seriously

	12-10-2002 19:55									#100
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Just a few sidenotes...

I sent a message to BBC News that they would fix the map as it looks so dumb (you know what I mean). They have a special form available for sending notes about faulty information.

I will be away until Monday, but I will make a more in-depth coverage on the first page of this thread on Monday. Until that I recommend that you stay tuned to ex. Google News. I also hope that you would show respect to all those who died as they were all innocent outsiders.

In Memoriam - 11.10.2002

	12-10-2002 20:05									#101
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One theory is that it was related to criminal gangs as they have recently stepped up their level of violent actions. Earlier this year there has already been a robbery of a valuables transportation van in Turku by heavily armed (SMG's) men and a targeted car bomb explosion in downtown Helsinki. I would see this as a possible reason. Maybe the student was involved in criminal underground activities by links to drug dealers.

	12-10-2002 20:05									#102
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It is too bad that innocent people cannot go shopping anymore without fearing that some nut case will kill them. At the present time there is a person who is killing innocent people at random in the Washington DC area. I hope that this brings all civilized people together to at least one conclusion and that is that this stuff has no justification whatsoever regardless of the particular pollitical cause. I weep with Finland over this. Those people deserve to be left out of whatever new or tired cause anyone has with anyone.

	12-10-2002 20:06									#103
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Rasbelin, and don't forget the car bombing we had this summer.

	12-10-2002 20:07									#104
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To Eli: If you want to disscus ME go http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=64357
Is this GIF really from BBC oficial WS?

	12-10-2002 20:14									#105
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Kassi,

read my post abit more carefully. I did mention it.

Muxec,

yes, it is.

	12-10-2002 20:16									#106
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I don't think rivaling gangs will set off a bomb of this magnitude in a shopping mall with 2,000 people in it. And right next to a circus clown entertaining little children.

It is a statement. A political statement.

	12-10-2002 20:22									#107
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I agree with Winston- btw tv reports say that a corpse found near the detonation centre was cut into two dinstict parts. I wonder if he was wearing an explosive belt?

	12-10-2002 20:23									#108
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quote: read my post abit more carefully. I did mention it.

BLAH!

quote: It is a statement. A political statement.

When something like this is done, usually the organisation or group behind it is quickly on the headlines and press, telling people why they did it.

That way they can make their point. However, there's been nothing heard of any such group this far. I'm betting on the lone nut theory myself.

	12-10-2002 20:33									#109
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He could be alone in this (though I don't think he is) and it wouldn't change the theory of political motives being involved.

What's more, not all groups conducting attacks claim "responsibility". There might be dozens of reasons why they haven't come forward.

Anyway, it's all speculations. Let's hope it was a lone nut - like John Hinckley who shot Pres. Reagan to gain notoriety and impress Jodie Foster for instance. Sadly I don't think that's what we're up against here, it's much too violent and calculated.

	12-10-2002 20:41									#110
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An explosive belt would indicate inspiration was gained from the Middle East conflict. It was mentioned earlier that the bomber was Finnish born. What does that mean exactly, has there been any more information on his origin?

	12-10-2002 21:01									#111
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quote: It was mentioned earlier that the bomber was Finnish born. What does that mean exactly, has there been any more information on his origin?

He was born in Finland, (apparently of Finnish parents, not sure) lived in Finland, studied in Finland. As Finland as it gets, and some sources have he was blonde, so that might hint at definitely Scandinavian lineage.

It might've been some sort of gesture of support for the Palestinian cause, maybe, just maybe, they'll find some note once they get to search his apartment.

	12-10-2002 21:04									#112
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The theory of a belt can be forgotten now. Currently the explosive seems to be have been a dirty bomb that was loaded with nails inside a tube like cylinder (source: MTV3 Internet). That would mean this man wanted to cause a great number of casualties like in suicide bombings or other similar cases. I also assume that the bomb was detornated too early by mistake or then he was such a loonie that he wanted to commit suicide.

	12-10-2002 21:04									#113
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quote: Originally posted by Kassiopeia It might've been some sort of gesture of support for the Palestinian cause, maybe, just maybe, they'll find some note once they get to search his apartment.

Yes, hopefully we'll all be much wiser in the days to come. This is unprecedented, not only in Finland but in all of Scandinavia. My thoughts and best wishes to all those affected by this.

	12-10-2002 21:15									#114
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Nobody checks the first post of a three page thread evolving as quickly as this one. You should post updates separately.

Edit: But I must say you put a lot of information in that first post. I'll read up on it now.

	12-10-2002 21:20									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Rasbelin 2. This case is not a valid arguement for any Middle East related threads.

Yes it is.

It can be the final proof that opression and humiliation are not what causing people to make suicide bombings.

	12-10-2002 21:21									#116
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quote: Yes, hopefully we'll all be much wiser in the days to come.

I hope so too, but there's a chance that we'll never find out.

quote: This is unprecedented, not only in Finland but in all of Scandinavia.

It is?

quote: My thoughts and best wishes to all those affected by this.

Thank you.

But I'm still leaning on that the guy was a cracker like Sanna Sillanpää, the woman who some years ago went to a shooting range and killed several men. She had watched too much X-Files and believed she was dating an FBI Agent. I'd laugh if it wasn't so tragic.

	12-10-2002 21:21									#117
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Nope. The coverage is now more easily readable as it's all in one post and the old and outdated information is removed and updated as things develop. If the news are split into many posts on many pages, navigating for the updates is getting more time consuming as you'll have to determin by yourself what's up-to-date and what's not.

Anyway, I'll carry on with the updates on the first page as soon as I can.

	12-10-2002 21:29									#118
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quote: It can be the final proof that opression and humiliation are not what causing people to make suicide bombings.

This is a singular case, and no motive has been established. If in a war many people are killed, does that mean that any homicide is made for the same reasons war is waged?

	12-10-2002 21:31									#119
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Minor news update

BBC News updated the map as per my request.

	12-10-2002 21:49									#120
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quote: Originally posted by Eli Yes it is. It can be the final proof that opression and humiliation are not what causing people to make suicide bombings.

So you think all suicide bombings have the same motive? Same results can come from million different things. It proves nothing. It doesn't even imply anything.


This and the shooter guy in DC makes me depressed.