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BeBro
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of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:23
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quote:
Originally posted by fairline
In terms of fighting capability they would be ranked as follows (in descending order): deceres, hepteres, quinquereme, liburnian. |
I agree, with one exception: perhap liburnians should have moderate attack values, the highest movement rate, but very low defense.
Especially ships of that type later in the civil war were very well equipped with throwing engines, but, due to their light construction and smaller crews of little or no use in enter combat or ram attacks against much heavier ships. Liburnians were however able to sink those ships effectively via ranged attacks with fire catapults. I think Actium was a clear decision between the heavy, but slow warships of M.Antonius and Kleopatra and more agile ships of Agrippa (mainly Liburnians from what I read).
This is of course difficult to simulate in civ2, I just want to say that these light ships werenīt without chances against bigger galleys...
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BeBro
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of the Krauts
Mar 2000
time: 06:23
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quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
BeBro, in Imperium Romanum you have Liburnes available with the discovery of "Harpax". Is that piracy? |
No, a Harpax is a special type of "ammunition" (not sure if this is the right expression) for balistae. It is a wooden, very thick and ca. 2 metres long kind of heavy "projectile" with iron hooks and with a strong rope at the end. When it was fired, the harpax penetrated the sides of an enemy vessel, and the hooks and the ropes made it easier to initiate enter combat against this ship, because it could not escape anymore. Due to the strong construction of the harpax, it was difficult to remove once it has hit its target. So the harpax is a modern alternative to the (at the time of the civil war) outdated enter bridges.
Iīm not sure if this weapon was used by Liburnians directly, because as said above, they werenīt that good in enter combat against heavier ships. I can only speculate here - maybe this weapon was used esp. by heavier ships against the highly maneuverable Liburnians (it was difficult for bigger ships to come into position for a classical board to board enter battle), or it could of course also be useful in fights between similar types of ships (Liburnian vs. Liburnian).
Iīm however quite sure that this weapon was introduced in late republican/civil war times.
quote:
So if I give the 4 Roman factions a number of obsolete Hepteres and Quinqueremes and allow them to build Decimeres and to research the tech for Liburnes, will that be reasonable? |
Sounds good to me. Only one thing, Iīm sometimes unsure about the correct English names - I used "Decimere" because I found it in a German book, maybe fairlineīs "Deceres" is more correct in the English language.
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techumseh
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of the frozen North.
Apr 1999
time: 22:23
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I'm trying to sort out the wonders for this scenario. Given the short time frame (55-44 BC, monthly turns), it makes more sense to use wonders as objectives, meaning new ones can't be built. Many will be obsolete anyway, since high impact wonders will unbalance multi-player games.
Some wonders are obvious: The Pharos (lighthouse), the Great Library, the pyramids, and the colossus. Does anyone know if the Oracle and the Hanging Gardens were still around at this time?
Other examples of the classical Seven Wonders could be included: the Statue of Zeus at Athens, the Temple of Artemis at Ephesus, and the Mausoleum at Hallicarnassus.
Rome is a bit of a problem; many of the well known historical structures weren't built yet, including the colosseum. I think I'll add the Senate (Cure for Cancer), and perhaps the Forum and the Circus Maximus, both of which were already around. Are there any others I should include?
How about for the Parthians? Their capital was Selucia/Ctesiphon - anything there? Persopolis was already destroyed by Alexander and Pasargadae is just off my map, so options are limited, but I want to boost the objective count in Parthia.
Should there be any wonders in Spain, North Africa or Gaul? Or the rest of Italy for that matter? Thanks for any help.
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Prometeus
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of Old Europe - "In America we don't trust"
Jun 2000
time: 06:23
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quote:
Originally posted by techumseh
Rome is a bit of a problem; many of the well known historical structures weren't built yet, including the colosseum. I think I'll add the Senate (Cure for Cancer), and perhaps the Forum and the Circus Maximus, both of which were already around. Are there any others I should include?
How about for the Parthians? Their capital was Selucia/Ctesiphon - anything there? Persopolis was already destroyed by Alexander and Pasargadae is just off my map, so options are limited, but I want to boost the objective count in Parthia.
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you should include many many others... I suggest you these :
Capitolium Hill
Juno Moneta's Temple
About Parthians
Actually, Seleucia was on the opposite river side of Chtesiphon. Chtesiphon itself was only one of the many capital cities in Parthian Empire. Kings moved between their capitals following political, economical or strategical reasons. Anyway, Seleucia/Chtesiphon was not so important as it become in later Parthian empire's times.
Other capitals were Ecbatana, Hatra in midst of nowadays Iraq, Niniwe, and Tigranocerta - when it'as under parthian control. If Pasagardae is out of your map, you should discard Nisa, Marw and Bactra, too.
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