22-10-2002 19:36									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog I'll slap 30 gold on Auckland, just for a laugh.

It's easy to spot the wealthy ones here.


Welcome back Andydog!

	23-10-2002 04:39									#92
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin It's easy to spot the wealthy ones here.

Yeah, and you'd die of thirst waiting for him to shout.

	23-10-2002 04:44									#93
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Ok, I guess my bet stands then. I'm on my way to living beyond my civ-gold means! Its the american way!

Something I forgot to add. In the truly American way, if we suspect there's oil in your apartment basement, we'll be exercising our right to enter your apartment to undertake a regime change.

	23-10-2002 05:11									#94
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My apartment basement? That would be the 6th floor.

	23-10-2002 05:58									#95
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The apartment building's basement! D'oh!

	23-10-2002 13:12									#96
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It seems the RFU have upset the FFR?

Check this reaction

Personally I thought the RFU suggestion was unusual for them in that it was both radical and good. It does serve no purpose in rugby to throw teams like Romania and Tonga, at their current strength, in against the top five teams at a RWC.

And if, as the French lad says, Australia can never host the RWC again then no harm done surely?

	23-10-2002 13:54									#97
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Mmmm. Actually, I thought the English and French were talking about a joint WRC as per what was meant to have happened in 2003. If they weren't, they should.

Splitting the competition into two has merit. The minnows are going to learn nothing from being pasted by a top team. The Cricket World Cup operates perfectly well on two tiers with "the best of the rest" taking their place in the major competition.

I take the point about "taking the game to the world", though.

	23-10-2002 14:48									#98
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I disagree - what is the point of a split bid? Both England and France have the facilities to host RWCs on their own and doing so would allow us distinct identities to successive tournaments.

A joint bid is a fudge all round.

Besides as we see - both parties might fall out and create bad feeling all around before the tournament even takes place?

Nope - I'm happy to see England and France stage their own shows.

France are apparently favourites for 07 anyway so you will get one more tournament where minnows are ruthlessly slaughtered in the pool stages. How exactly can that help promote rugby?

*Thats rhetorical btw - I had noted you said a split level tournament had merit*

Last edited by Havak on 23-10-2002 at 15:30

	23-10-2002 16:12									#99
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quote: It's easy to spot the wealthy ones here. Welcome back Andydog!

Cheers Tamerlin!
I had the pleasure of spending two weeks in the south of your beautiful country not long ago - a bunch of us cruised the canals around the Buzet and Bordeaux regions. The food was fantastic, the wine was fantastic, and the people were fantastic - most of whom seemed to be rugby mad!

quote: Yeah, and you'd die of thirst waiting for him to shout.

Harsh call! Finbar you of all people should realise, if I used my amassed civ gold to shout people beers, then there would be even more of: A - people talking excessively without making much sense, B - people arguing about nothing, and C - people refusing to apologise when they are obviously wrong!

	23-10-2002 16:27									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I disagree - what is the point of a split bid?

I just saw the potential for some internal NH argy bargy, that's all.

quote: Besides as we see - both parties might fall out and create bad feeling all around before the tournament even takes place?

Q.E.D.

	23-10-2002 16:29									#101
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog and C - people refusing to apologise when they are obviously wrong!

You've read more than one of Havak's posts too, huh?

	23-10-2002 18:18									#102
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quote: a bunch of us cruised the canals around the Buzet and Bordeaux regions. The food was fantastic, the wine was fantastic, and the people were fantastic - most of whom seemed to be rugby mad!

In Buzet they even organize a tournament every year, which is called "vin et rugby". It is played with teams of 7, in july, usually under a hot sun, and with plenty of wine nearby to quench the thirst...

About the 2-tiers world-cup, having 16 teams instead of 20 won't change a lot for those small nations which make it in the "top". Having a two-level competition could be a good idea, but I can't see why you would have to organize both at the same time and the same place. There already are a few cups, like FIRA, in which several countries with relatively low-level teams compete. Turning this into a wider cup and slapping some advertising could do the same job as getting a two-tier world cup...

	23-10-2002 18:25									#103
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Personally I thought the RFU suggestion was unusual for them in that it was both radical and good. It does serve no purpose in rugby to throw teams like Romania and Tonga, at their current strength, in against the top five teams at a RWC. And if, as the French lad says, Australia can never host the RWC again then no harm done surely?

Quite.
I have to side with the English proposal here. There are countries out there that are starving for some decent competition, Romania and Russia are perfect examples. Romania especially, as they have been close to the top in rugby before. Its a real shame to see all that potential being wasted. In fact, even if the English proposal is implimented, I would like to see an annual competition between teams at that level.

quote: Originally posted by finbar I take the point about "taking the game to the world", though.

Thats a part I didnt get. How is it "taking the game to the world" if the countries that are low on the rugby totem pole never get to play each other?

	23-10-2002 18:33									#104
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare In Buzet they even organize a tournament every year, which is called "vin et rugby". It is played with teams of 7, in july, usually under a hot sun, and with plenty of wine nearby to quench the thirst...

Wine and rugby......trust the French to come up with that one.

quote: About the 2-tiers world-cup, having 16 teams instead of 20 won't change a lot for those small nations which make it in the "top". Having a two-level competition could be a good idea, but I can't see why you would have to organize both at the same time and the same place. There already are a few cups, like FIRA, in which several countries with relatively low-level teams compete. Turning this into a wider cup and slapping some advertising could do the same job as getting a two-tier world cup...

This is also a good idea. Perhaps the "second division" world cup could take place 2 years after the main competition, and repeat every 4 years. That way we would never be more than 2 years away from a RWC competition.

	23-10-2002 19:12									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Thats a part I didnt get. How is it "taking the game to the world" if the countries that are low on the rugby totem pole never get to play each other?

They do in the qualifiers, and those who qualify meet teams of similar quality in the pool matches. The downside is that they also get smashed by the top sides.

	23-10-2002 19:18									#106
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare Having a two-level competition could be a good idea, but I can't see why you would have to organize both at the same time and the same place. There already are a few cups, like FIRA, in which several countries with relatively low-level teams compete. Turning this into a wider cup and slapping some advertising could do the same job as getting a two-tier world cup...

The problem with the second tier competition - played either in tandem with the WRC or separate - would, I suspect, be economics. As it is, they're just about giving away tickets to the pool matches next year between the minnows or between a minnow and a mid-rank team.

	23-10-2002 19:25									#107
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quote: Originally posted by finbar They do in the qualifiers, and those who qualify meet teams of similar quality in the pool matches. The downside is that they also get smashed by the top sides.

Perhaps if we had a "2nd division" RWC, it could double as a qualifier for the main RWC. The best teams from the 2nd division would qualify for the 1st division.

	23-10-2002 19:25									#108
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Damn double post! The stupid server gave me a message that there were too many guests and to try again!

	23-10-2002 19:26									#109
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Perhaps if we had a "2nd division" RWC, it could double as a qualifier for the main RWC. The best teams from the 2nd division would qualify for the 1st division.

That's how the Cricket World Cup operates.

	23-10-2002 19:55									#110
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Damn double post! The stupid server gave me a message that there were too many guests and to try again!

Me too, this place drives me crazy sometimes.

	24-10-2002 03:13									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Andydog Cheers Tamerlin! I had the pleasure of spending two weeks in the south of your beautiful country not long ago - a bunch of us cruised the canals around the Buzet and Bordeaux regions. The food was fantastic, the wine was fantastic, and the people were fantastic - most of whom seemed to be rugby mad!

Sometimes I feel very lucky to live in Southern France.

Toulouse is less than an hour away from Buzet (sixty kilometers away from Toulouse you also find the Gaillac's Vineyards which happens to be France Oldest one, wines coming from Gaillac were served at the kings' table), the South-western part of France is exceptionally reach at several levels : culture, history and Rugby. In a one hundred kilometers radius from Toulouse you can find the "Castres Olympique", The "Sporting Union Agenais", Montauban, Colomiers and of course my dear old "Stade Toulousain", five of the sixteen clubs playing in the French Top 16. Biarritz, Pau, Bègles, Béziers, Narbonne and Perpignan, six of the other sixteen ones, are not far away. I love this place...


About Bernard Lapasset and the "fury" of the French Federation, I suppose this is a clumsy attempt to somehow discredit the English Union in order to grab some votes for the 2007 RWC. The English Union proposal has the merit to say what many think without saying it, there are very significant level differences between some nations and it is totally uninteresting to look a game where a team scores 150 points.

Sorry, I have no time left, ARTE is broadcasting one of the masterpiece of the french cinema : "Quai des Orfèvres".

	24-10-2002 05:05									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Sometimes I feel very lucky to live in Southern France. I love this place...

No need to rub it in!

quote: Sorry, I have no time left, ARTE is broadcasting one of the masterpiece of the french cinema : "Quai des Orfèvres".

Don't know it. How does it translate? "Quay" or "Platform"? "Goldsmiths" or "Silversmiths"?

	24-10-2002 05:24									#113
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quote: Originally posted by finbar No need to rub it in!

quote: Don't know it. How does it translate? "Quay" or "Platform"? "Goldsmiths" or "Silversmiths"?

I think we can translate it as "Quay of the Goldsmiths", not pier but quay because this is the name of a place neer the river Seine in Paris. Actually the title shouldn't be translated at all as it refers to the "36, Quai des Orfèvres" which is, at least was, the address of the Police Headquarters (a bit like the address of New Scotland Yard in London).

"Quai des Orfèvres" is a Henri-Georges Clouzot "police story" movie realized in 1947 with Louis Jouvet and Bernard Blier, two great actors of the post-war era. A real gem...

	24-10-2002 13:38									#114
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quote: I just saw the potential for some internal NH argy bargy, that's all.

Ah – then what you want is for us to table a joint bid with one of the other home nations.

We generally get on very well with France in rugby terms – it’s actually the Scots and Welsh we have most argy-bargy with, and generally over them trying to gain a bigger slice of the TV revenue our presence creates for the games against them.

quote: Q.E.D.

Picked it like a ripe apple, as ever.

quote: You've read more than one of Havak's posts too, huh?

You have the wrong person here. I am always right.

quote: I can't see why you would have to organize both at the same time and the same place

It’s going to be at least partially down to player release I suspect. A lot of minor nation players ply their trade in the top eight countries. Their clubs are really going to want consistency in the timing of releasing players for international duty?

quote: I would like to see an annual competition between teams at that level.

Yes this idea has great merit I agree.

quote: Wine and rugby...trust the French to come up with that one.

They added a little style to the earlier British concoction of Beer and Rugby I would agree.

quote: No need to rub it in!

On which note it may be worth my saying it is six weeks to my long weekend for the Bezier match

	24-10-2002 18:24									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Ah – then what you want is for us to table a joint bid with one of the other home nations.

I'm just emailing the Welsh RU as we speak. I'm letting them know the English RU is desperate to put together a joint bid with the Welsh taking 80% of the profits.

quote: It’s going to be at least partially down to player release I suspect. A lot of minor nation players ply their trade in the top eight countries. Their clubs are really going to want consistency in the timing of releasing players for international duty?

The real problem with the English bid is the attempt to move the event to earlier in the year to satisfy their damn clubs. The SH won't wear that in a fit.

quote: On which note it may be worth my saying it is six weeks to my long weekend for the Bezier match

Edit. I was even angrier than that until the server wouldn't let me include so many angrys.

	24-10-2002 20:24									#116
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You have no idea how right you are - the WRU would keep 80% of the cash - and grass roots and clubs would see nowt. The WRU is the most top heavy and archaic Union in the UK.

Well the World cup has traditionally always been played at the end of the SH season. Now we want it at the end of ours. Hardly unfair? And at the end of the day the SH will do what the hosts tell them I suspect anyway. The financial reality is they cannot walk away from any RWC?

Plus finally - I can't help where I live. Southern France is easier for me to reach than Brisbane is for you after all.

	24-10-2002 20:27									#117
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Well lets face it, when it come to the RWC, the NH teams need all the help they can get.

	25-10-2002 04:22									#118
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Well the World cup has traditionally always been played at the end of the SH season. Now we want it at the end of ours. Hardly unfair? And at the end of the day the SH will do what the hosts tell them I suspect anyway. The financial reality is they cannot walk away from any RWC?

Ultimately, it will come down to an IRB vote.

quote: Plus finally - I can't help where I live. Southern France is easier for me to reach than Brisbane is for you after all.

x 1,000,000,000!

	25-10-2002 04:24									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Well lets face it, when it come to the RWC, the NH teams need all the help they can get.

BTW, which bastard keeps knocking our thread down from five stars?

	25-10-2002 04:34									#120
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quote: Originally posted by finbar BTW, which bastard keeps knocking our thread down from five stars?

I was wondering the same thing.

I voted 5 stars already, so if anyone else hasnt, go ahead and lets gets this thread back to the rating it deserves!