25-10-2002 05:58									#121
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I was wondering the same thing.

Certainly a jealous L***** fan.

quote: I voted 5 stars already, so if anyone else hasnt, go ahead and lets gets this thread back to the rating it deserves!

I have already tried to vote but I've been denied the right to do so, I really don't know why.

	25-10-2002 12:52									#122
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quote: Well lets face it, when it come to the RWC, the NH teams need all the help they can get

Terrific line, but how did you hit the ‘N’ key instead of the ‘S’? they aren’t even close!

Seriously the last thing the rugby world needs, despite the fact it would please yourself and Finbar, is an Australia-NZ final don’t you think?

Were the world cup anywhere but Australia I would be confident we wouldn’t see that – but down there they at least will make the final. As I have many times mentioned they will make damn sure of that. And if the Wallabies do not make the final – well don’t expect to see the game televised will you?

quote: Ultimately, it will come down to an IRB vote.

Very true of course – but as your own Mr O’Neil would confirm it has been a long time since the IRB used to roll over and assume the position just because an SH Union said so.

Are you actually personally arguing that it is always fair to have the RWC at the end of your season but slap bang in the middle of ours disrupting it?? Surely this should be decided by who the host is??

Okay I will stop mentioning France now.

Look to your Soccer and L***** muppets as your root cause gentlemen. I dislike social exclusion in Rugby but IQ based exclusion is fine by me.

And what do you know - it would appear the Wallabies are saving their best for England

Please please play Sailor?

	25-10-2002 14:01									#123
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Seriously the last thing the rugby world needs, despite the fact it would please yourself and Finbar, is an Australia-NZ final don’t you think?

If they're the two best teams it has to be something rugby world needs.

quote: Were the world cup anywhere but Australia I would be confident we wouldn’t see that – but down there they at least will make the final.

I wouldn't overestimate the "home ground advantage". As someone - Phil Kearns, I think - pointed out recently, we won our World Cups away from home. Playing at home, while obviously providing crowd support, which is a big bonus, can also bring pressures too.

On a completely unrelated topic, have you ever seen anything so silly as the English cricket squad turning up here with 4 or 5 injured players? After less than a week, they've already called Craig White into the squad and he's been found wanting at the higher levels any number of times.

	25-10-2002 14:04									#124
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quote: Originally posted by Havak And what do you know - it would appear the Wallabies are saving their best for England Please please play Sailor?

What do you know? That's the first time Eddie has actually committed himself on plans for the tour.

My bet is they won't play Wendell against England.

	25-10-2002 15:09									#125
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quote: If they're the two best teams it has to be something rugby world needs.

I agree entirely. So it would actually be disasterous if this occurs next year then? As by this criteria it should be England and NZ contesting the final.

quote: Playing at home, while obviously providing crowd support, which is a big bonus, can also bring pressures too

Absolutely. It can make expectations totally unmanageable. I think you have problems with that anyway – I’m thinking LCD again. As often noted the Wallabies have achieved above their resources so often that at some point it will stop. It has to really, every sport moves in cycles.

Have we ever discussed the 91 final? Can you remember how England walked out at home and proceeded to play a wide expansive game for the first time in the tournament and failed completely at it – and with our girlies who is surprised? The pressure of putting on a show for the crowd cost them dearly that day. Why the hell they didn’t stick with the earlier game plan and keep it tight I do not know – those were the days of Pitbull Moore, Mike Teague, Wade Dooley et al – we could have murdered you off the park. Quite literally so in fact – earlier that season in Paris the forwards destroyed the French pack so thoroughly that a mass brawl was started by the Blues and two of their forwards were sent off – that French pack was vastly stronger than the Green and Gold of the day IMHO.

quote: have you ever seen anything so silly as the English cricket squad turning up here with 4 or 5 injured players? After less than a week, they've already called Craig White into the squad and he's been found wanting at the higher levels any number of times.

You know the answer Finbar. Of course I have. Every time they tour in fact.
The truly sad thing is they have sent the best we have. If Rugby plays second to Soccer here then Cricket is no longer even at the foot of the ladder. It sure is not the religion it seems to be in Oz. As you see now the best we can send is being stuffed by an invitational non-test side. God help them in the ashes!!

quote: What do you know? That's the first time Eddie has actually committed himself on plans for the tour. My bet is they won't play Wendell against England.

Is he toying with the Irish you think? They won’t like his comments at all, and as I have said I think they are a real threat to you at their place. Is he perhaps setting up the tour so any defeats can be set to ‘experimenting’?

And sadly I think you are right – Sailor would be badly exposed against us I suspect. However arguable our quality is I am sure we could exploit a girly who won’t kick from defence at all.

	25-10-2002 16:54									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I agree entirely. So it would actually be disasterous if this occurs next year then? As by this criteria it should be England and NZ contesting the final.

A very long bow is drawn rather desperately.

quote: Have we ever discussed the 91 final? Can you remember how England walked out at home and proceeded to play a wide expansive game for the first time in the tournament and failed completely at it – and with our girlies who is surprised?

Thank heavens for small mercies, I say.

quote: Is he toying with the Irish you think? They won’t like his comments at all, and as I have said I think they are a real threat to you at their place. Is he perhaps setting up the tour so any defeats can be set to ‘experimenting’?

I don't think he's toying with the Irish. He said from the outset that the tour was a preparation for the WRC. Other teams are doing the same thing. The Wallabies have a lot of sorting out to do between numbers 4 to 7 and 11 to 15.

quote: And sadly I think you are right – Sailor would be badly exposed against us I suspect. However arguable our quality is I am sure we could exploit a girly who won’t kick from defence at all.

I'd pick Scott Staniforth - Latham's tour replacement - in front of him any day. Staniforth's a good player - strong, quick, knows where the try line is. He did well on the last tour.

	25-10-2002 17:26									#127
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quote: A very long bow is drawn rather desperately.

And yet the arrow of truth it launched hit the target never the less.

quote: Thank heavens for small mercies, I say.

I watched the game with friends and we all had a case of beer each. You have never seen such a tin pyramid or five such unhappy blokes in all your life. You were ours for the taking I tell you…

I understand the sense in the tour being an RWC preparation and you have to be careful with the media, but I personally would not have suggested ‘we will only field our strongest side for England’ – surely that is all the motivation the Lansdowne boys will need?

You meant sorting out 4-7 in terms of cover in some positions – I would imagine Smithy is your openside as long as he wants to be right now? Your locks are a source of uncertainty I think, definitely so on this tour. Will Giffen return from injury the same man – can Harrison ever put a run together? That kind of thing?

quote: Staniforth's a good player - strong, quick, knows where the try line is. He did well on the last tour.

Sounds the last thing we want to see – which suggests you are dead right.

Also - Good luck Auckland!!

	25-10-2002 18:26									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Seriously the last thing the rugby world needs, despite the fact it would please yourself and Finbar, is an Australia-NZ final don’t you think?

Actually, I dont think NZ and Oz have ever actually met in a RWC match before. If the first time they meet is in a final, then so be it. Of course I would prefer to see a NZ - England final, (if only because that would mean Oz were out of the comp) but I wont exactly be heartbroken at the prospect of a NZ - Oz final.

quote: Were the world cup anywhere but Australia I would be confident we wouldn’t see that – but down there they at least will make the final. As I have many times mentioned they will make damn sure of that.

I really dont think Oz will win the RWC this time, the cosmos just can't handle another event of that magnitude of evil.

	25-10-2002 18:29									#129
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quote: Originally posted by Havak And yet the arrow of truth it launched hit the target never the less.

Put it this way, Mr Tell's apple didn't lose a wink of sleep.

quote: I watched the game with friends and we all had a case of beer each. You have never seen such a tin pyramid or five such unhappy blokes in all your life. You were ours for the taking I tell you…

How I wish I'd popped over there and been standing behind you.

quote: I understand the sense in the tour being an RWC preparation and you have to be careful with the media, but I personally would not have suggested ‘we will only field our strongest side for England’ – surely that is all the motivation the Lansdowne boys will need?

Bugger 'em. If it motivates 'em, good on 'em.

quote: You meant sorting out 4-7 in terms of cover in some positions – I would imagine Smithy is your openside as long as he wants to be right now? Your locks are a source of uncertainty I think, definitely so on this tour. Will Giffen return from injury the same man – can Harrison ever put a run together? That kind of thing?

Covering and starting. David Lyons - who is/was to take Finnegan's spot on the other side - is carrying a hip problem. He'll miss the Pumas but be fit for later on. Except he will have missed some rugby.

The locks obviously need to be sorted out. I expect Giffen to play as often as possible for the match fitness. If he comes up well, I think Nathan Sharpe will partner him.

Poor old Chris Latham's injury probably has solved some of the backline questions with Rogers now at fullback, Mortlock and Burke in the centres, Tune on one wing ... and ... anyone but you-know-who on the other.

quote: Sounds the last thing we want to see – which suggests you are dead right.

It's a pity Mark Stcherbina nicked off overseas. He probably would have had the call up in front of Staniforth.

	25-10-2002 18:46									#130
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quote: but I wont exactly be heartbroken at the prospect of a NZ - Oz final.

Well I can see the attraction of that to you – but how about an Oz-England final?

The serious point is that Australia should enter the RWC as third place in the world rankings at best – maybe fourth if France have a great season – and we all want to see a 1 v 2 final. The only thing that has a chance of making them second is that all their lead up games are at home. I think the form book final will be England-NZ myself – but Finbar believes otherwise. He is entitled to his views.

quote: I really dont think Oz will win the RWC this time, the cosmos just can't handle another event of that magnitude of evil.

One things for sure we would NEVER hear the end of it (and I don’t mean from Finbar of course).

quote: Put it this way, Mr Tell's apple didn't lose a wink of sleep.

I should know better than to engage in witty word play with a writer!!

quote: How I wish I'd popped over there and been standing behind you.

You would have towered above me – I was firmly horizontal by the end. A case, for those who don’t know, is 24 * 440ml cans. Approx 20 pints? Admittedly we started well before the game, and finished a little afterwards too.

quote: Bugger 'em. If it motivates 'em, good on 'em.

Definitely my favourite Celtic team, and I love the country to boot. Did I mention…ah shucks I can’t do it to you again. Okay, actually I can – I’m going to the six nations game in Dublin in March.

I would suggest unless Lyons is fit for Ireland he may only play Italy? I can’t see his first game being us really?

Giffen definitely is class – but injury can end that when it is as serious as his was. I hope not (honestly so). Sharpe impressed me a great deal more than poor Justin ever has. Is he fit enough to tour – wasn’t he carrying shoulder problems?

Any one but you know who indeed – well said sir.

Stcherbina signed in France? Let me check….yup, Biarritz. Australias loss is their gain? I saw many Edmonds crop up in a Perpignan match report too.

	25-10-2002 19:01									#131
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Well I can see the attraction of that to you – but how about an Oz-England final?

Nooooooooooo!!!!

quote: The serious point is that Australia should enter the RWC as third place in the world rankings at best – maybe fourth if France have a great season – and we all want to see a 1 v 2 final.

If those rankings are truly accurate then you have nothing to worry about.

quote: The only thing that has a chance of making them second is that all their lead up games are at home. I think the form book final will be England-NZ myself – but Finbar believes otherwise. He is entitled to his views.

It depends on whether England finish top of their pool or not.

	25-10-2002 19:20									#132
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quote: Originally posted by Havak The serious point is that Australia should enter the RWC as third place in the world rankings at best – maybe fourth if France have a great season –

Obviously 1991's suds are still in the system.

quote: I should know better than to engage in witty word play with a writer!!

So quit while you're behind!

quote: Did I mention…ah shucks I can’t do it to you again. Okay, actually I can – I’m going to the six nations game in Dublin in March.

Very nice place, Dublin, but I'll let you off this time.

quote: I would suggest unless Lyons is fit for Ireland he may only play Italy? I can’t see his first game being us really?

He'll be right for Ireland.

quote: Sharpe impressed me a great deal more than poor Justin ever has. Is he fit enough to tour – wasn’t he carrying shoulder problems?

He's fine. Matt Rogers has a potentially dodgy shoulder, too, but he's going. Or gone, they left yesterday.

quote: Stcherbina signed in France? Let me check….yup, Biarritz. Australias loss is their gain? I saw many Edmonds crop up in a Perpignan match report too.

Yep, both of them in France. They'll do well.

	25-10-2002 19:22									#133
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia It depends on whether England finish top of their pool or not.

Isn't it going to be a quiet old thread when they don't finish top of their pool, meet you-know-who in the next round, and bomb out?

	25-10-2002 19:43									#134
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quote: It depends on whether England finish top of their pool or not

I respectfully disagree. First or second, we still make the final. Other big names teams are the ones who need to wrroy where we qualifiy.

It should be a no-brainer though. As I keep pointing out the “revitalised” Boks managed to narrowly win one game in the tri-nations and they have a truly awful recent record against us. We should top the group without too much trouble.

quote: So quit while you're behind!

You know better than that.

I’ve run out of time, damn!

Still I have to close by saying it will be a much quieter thread when Jonno lifts the Webb-Ellis trophy don’t you think?



Have a good weekend chaps, catch you Monday.

	25-10-2002 20:06									#135
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Isn't it going to be a quiet old thread when they don't finish top of their pool, meet you-know-who in the next round, and bomb out?

No doubt Havak will suddenly discover he has "things to do" around the house, and we wont see him for a couple of months.

	26-10-2002 06:18									#136
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Still I have to close by saying it will be a much quieter thread when Jonno lifts the Webb-Ellis trophy don’t you think?

"Lift", of course, being a well-known euphemism for "thieve". And the only way J**** will get his mitts on it.

	26-10-2002 06:20									#137
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia No doubt Havak will suddenly discover he has "things to do" around the house, and we wont see him for a couple of months.

I'm still wondering what Mrs Havak's response was when the ambos stretchered him in after the 1991 WRC suds marathon.

	26-10-2002 15:11									#138
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quote: Originally posted by finbar I'm still wondering what Mrs Havak's response was when the ambos stretchered him in after the 1991 WRC suds marathon.

Again !?!

	27-10-2002 08:43									#139
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Results of interest to the thread:

Auckland 40 -d- Waikato 28

Just too good on the day. Though we certainly saw the best and worst of Carlos Spencer. Gee, when he takes a bad option he takes a really bad option.

Wasps 23 -d- Gloucester 16

Bummer. A red card in the third or fourth minute didn't help the cause. How stupid, how unprofessional.

	27-10-2002 08:47									#140
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Again !?!

I can only hope for poor Mrs Havak's sake that it was back in his gay bachelor days.

	27-10-2002 08:52									#141
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Andydog 186
Caligastia 37
finbar 123.5
Havak 60
LDiCesares 111
Mickeyj 143.5
NeoStar 114
ravagon 94
redbull 80
Tamerlin 59

I suppose the next match for our betting consideration will be the Wallabies -v- Pumas next Saturday. Anyone care to suggest some margins?

	27-10-2002 14:09									#142
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Hmm... after watching Waikato freak out on the NPC final night, I am thinking that Regan King will make the ABs side.

I also predict that Half of the Canterbury side won't make it.

	28-10-2002 03:54									#143
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quote: Originally posted by redbull Hmm... after watching Waikato freak out on the NPC final night, I am thinking that Regan King will make the ABs side. I also predict that Half of the Canterbury side won't make it.

Hmm... Carlos Spencer certainly won't.

	28-10-2002 05:04									#144
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Thanks to the Blues I can breathe a little, my Golds are feeling less alone now even if my purse is far from being full.

Sporting Union Agenais 27 - Stade Toulousain 19

As I had predicted it the Stade lost away from home against Agen, I haven't seen the game and haven't read anything about it yet though a witness told me it was not a very interesting game... more on this later.

A margin for the match to come : I think the Wallabies will win against the Pumas by 15 points.

	28-10-2002 05:58									#145
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin Sporting Union Agenais 27 - Stade Toulousain 19

Tamerlin, I can't find a website with your comp's fixtures and scores. Is there one? Could you post a link? Doesn't matter if it's all in French.

quote: A margin for the match to come : I think the Wallabies will win against the Pumas by 15 points.

For our purposes, we need half-point margins. 14 1/2 or 15 1/2?

	28-10-2002 06:42									#146
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Tamerlin, I can't find a website with your comp's fixtures and scores. Is there one? Could you post a link? Doesn't matter if it's all in French.

You can try this one :
http://www.sports.fr/fr/rugby/elite1/resultats.html

You will find other sites if you type Résultats Rugby Top 16, Google send me back many results. The accent is very important if you want to be sure French sites will be looked for.

The french elite competition is called Top 16, I'am sure you can have good results if you type something like "Rugby France Top 16".

Tell me if you have find what you want, if not I will have a deeper look at this and I will send you the URL.

quote: For our purposes, we need half-point margins. 14 1/2 or 15 1/2?

15 1/2

	28-10-2002 12:14									#147
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Lomu in the ABs for the Euro tour! Whatever next! Surely John Mitchell hasn't gone insane

quote: BACKS: Ben Blair, Christian Cullen, Steve Devine, Doug Howlett, Regan King, Jonah Lomu, Keith Lowen, Andrew Mehrtens, Danny Lee, Mark Robinson, Carlos Spencer and Tana Umaga. FORWARDS: Daniel Braid, Sam Broomhall, Carl Hayman, Marty Holah, Andrew Hore, Keven Mealamu, Kees Meeuws, Joe McDonnell, Brad Mika, Taine Randell (captain), Keith Robinson, Rodney So'oialo, Ali Williams and Tony Woodcock.

I find it amazing that Steve Devine, after having a great NPC season and making it into the ABs, is still being rejected by the NZ S12 franchises. A rumour is circulating that an Aussie franchise is after him.

Deon Muir, Waikato No. 8, is off to Japan. IMHO, if he had been staying, he'd have made the squad.

	28-10-2002 13:02									#148
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin You can try this one : http://www.sports.fr/fr/rugby/elite1/resultats.html

That one's great. Thanks.

quote: 15 1/2

Mmmm. Making my job of winning Civ Gold half a point harder, huh?

	28-10-2002 13:47									#149
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This betting system seems flawed - when i win everyone is backing my horse so i get b***** all money!

Got a big job on this week gents but will try to drop in in detail later.

Some things do need discussion after the English League weekend but I'll leave Finbar this taster - my fear that Dean Ryan would affect Gloucesters forwards seem spot on - even without the red card their discipline was shocking...

	28-10-2002 16:30									#150
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Mmmm. Making my job of winning Civ Gold half a point harder, huh?

No, it seems I like to make my life harder, I will back the Wallabies with my new flow of money...