31-10-2002 04:16									#181
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

"No team with two or more losses should have a chance, period."

Probably the only way to make this stick and to also have a tourney would be a 4 team tourney.

	31-10-2002 04:27									#182
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: If you are a Nebraska fan... I can understand this opinion of yours... especially since there is nothing else in Nebraska but college sports

You don't need the winking smilie. What you said is absolutely true...

	31-10-2002 04:31									#183
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

I haven't read the whole thread, but I do support a playoff among conference champions. No wild cards or at large bids allowed. The so-called independs would have to figure out a system to declare a conference champion of the independents.


Thinking about wild cards, the New England was a wild card and so were Anaheim and San Francisco.

Is this fair or unfair?

I personally would be in favor of abolishing all wildcards in these two sports - especially with Baseball. A playoff baseball team is a different team than a regular season team. The playoff baseball team can focus on fewer starting pictures and regular players. Fourth and fifth starter become relievers if they pitch at all.

	31-10-2002 08:04									#184
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Mark Richt, head coach of the Georgia Bulldogs, came out against a playoff in a fairly rambling speech today. He first said the implementation of it (8 or 16 team playoff) wouldn't be that big a hardship on the players, but he then said:

1. If Georgia got locked out, well, that's the breaks.
2. That a playoff would diminish the importance of the regular season and that he likes the situation where every Saturday counts.

Here's part of what he said (I heard his press conference on the radio but can only find quotes on the web): "(On the BCS) I never really worry about it. I don't know if there is a perfect system. I think college football the way it is is a great sport. I think the regular-season games mean an awful lot and every Saturday is exciting. If you change something drastically you may think you're getting what you want but you may end up hurting some things that are really good."

	31-10-2002 08:09									#185
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: "(On the BCS) I never really worry about it. I don't know if there is a perfect system. I think college football the way it is is a great sport. I think the regular-season games mean an awful lot and every Saturday is exciting. If you change something drastically you may think you're getting what you want but you may end up hurting some things that are really good."

Couldn't have said it better myself. Nice post, JohnT.

	31-10-2002 08:12									#186
	Full PM-box? Change here!

Yep.

	31-10-2002 08:20									#187
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I think that, if the BCS is kept, it should be open to everyone. Not all conferences are a part of the BCS. That is patently unfair.

	31-10-2002 08:22									#188
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Ming: I like it. Win your conference and then you can go.

Yeah, nice idea, Ming. Of course, 95% of it is MY idea, but still.

	31-10-2002 08:26									#189
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Yeah, nice idea, Ming. Of course, 95% of it is MY idea, but still.

I was thinking the same thing, I knew it was posted earlier, but couldn't remember who posted it.

	31-10-2002 08:26									#190
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Again, I don't see how the importance of the regular season is lessened under my/Ming's proposal. Any loss could knock you out of the conference championship/#12 slot. And, if you make it in with a few losses, and somehow manage to beat four consecutive fellow champs (probably with 1 loss or less), well I'd say that's a pretty compelling argument for being the best overall team in the country...

	31-10-2002 08:28									#191
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Tuberski I was thinking the same thing, I knew it was posted earlier, but couldn't remember who posted it.

The first post of the thread, DanS quoting me from a different thread... isn't it against forums rules to plagarize, Ming?

	31-10-2002 08:30									#192
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Someone said that the #12 slot should go to the best independent, which pretty much gives ND a free pass every year.

	31-10-2002 08:32									#193
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Again, I don't see how the importance of the regular season is lessened under my/Ming's proposal. Any loss could knock you out of the conference championship/#12 slot. And, if you make it in with a few losses, and somehow manage to beat four consecutive fellow champs (probably with 1 loss or less), well I'd say that's a pretty compelling argument for being the best overall team in the country...

If Georgia beats Florida and then lose their next three games (Auburn, Mississippi, and Ga Tech), they still get into the SEC Championship game. If they win that, then you would have a 10-3 team vieing for the National Championship.

	31-10-2002 08:53									#194
	Suffering from ads?

"Someone said that the #12 slot should go to the best independent, which pretty much gives ND a free pass every year."

And if that was last year's team, then I would not have wanted to visit that abomination on everybody.

	31-10-2002 09:00									#195
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Yeah, nice idea, Ming. Of course, 95% of it is MY idea, but still.

Actually... I read a similar proposal last year... I don't think any of us can take credit for such an idea, we can only agree and improve on it

	31-10-2002 09:04									#196
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

quote: Again, I don't see how the importance of the regular season is lessened under my/Ming's proposal.

You honestly can't see how giving a three loss team a shot at the title lessens the importance of the regular season?

quote: well I'd say that's a pretty compelling argument for being the best overall team in the country...

Not for the whole season. You'd be the best team at the end of the season, which isn't the same thing.

	31-10-2002 09:14									#197
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

If a 2 or 3 loss team can beat an Undefeated team in a playoff game, what does that say about the strenght of that undefeated team

But I agree... out of all the suggestions, I still like the "pick the best 8 teams with 1 loss or less and let them play" idea the best. Then the worst case will be that the national champ has only one loss, and no team will be left undefeated, and it will still be proved on the field instead of on paper.

	31-10-2002 09:19									#198
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: If a 2 or 3 loss team can beat an Undefeated team in a playoff game, what does that say about the strenght of that undefeated team

A lot of things can happen over the course of a season. What if the undefeated team's star quaterback goes down right before the tourney? Are you really getting the best team in the country over the whole season or just the best team at the time of the playoff?

	31-10-2002 09:26									#199
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: If a 2 or 3 loss team can beat an Undefeated team in a playoff game, what does that say about the strenght of that undefeated team A lot of things can happen over the course of a season. What if the undefeated team's star quaterback goes down right before the tourney? Are you really getting the best team in the country over the whole season or just the best team at the time of the playoff?

What if the 8-3 team's quarterback, went down with an injury, they lose 3 in a row, then he comes back and leads them to a win over the undefeated team?

They were the best, until their QB was lost for 3 games, don't they deserve it anyway?

ACK!

	31-10-2002 09:30									#200
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

quote: They were the best, until their QB was lost for 3 games, don't they deserve it anyway?

No. They weren't the best team over the whole season.

	31-10-2002 09:37									#201
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: They were the best, until their QB was lost for 3 games, don't they deserve it anyway? No. They weren't the best team over the whole season.

Then, by the same token, your undefeated team wasn't the best team either.

	31-10-2002 09:40									#202
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Then, by the same token, your undefeated team wasn't the best team either.

How did I say that? Even with one loss, they still would have had a more deserving season than the 8-3 team did. If Nebraska beats Oklahoma in the Big 12 title game, I would still rank OU over NU. One loss teams are more deserving than three loss teams.

	31-10-2002 09:43									#203
	Put an end to popups!

I like the coin flip idea

at the start of the season the teams are all ranked and analyzed

then some elaborate coin flipping takes place

until only one team is left, who is the winner

we can have 70 or more seasons a year even

and hte coin flipping can be televised, so no one misses the excitement

Jon Miller

	31-10-2002 09:43									#204
	Put an end to popups!

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Then, by the same token, your undefeated team wasn't the best team either. How did I say that? Even with one loss, they still would have had a more deserving season than the 8-3 team did. If Nebraska beats Oklahoma in the Big 12 title game, I would still rank OU over NU. One loss teams are more deserving than three loss teams.

Sure, usually. But a team that lost to, say, ND, Miami, and Ohio State, is still, most likely, better than a team that lost to Utah State.

ACK!

	31-10-2002 09:43									#205
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten If Nebraska beats Oklahoma in the Big 12 title game, I would still rank OU over NU. One loss teams are more deserving than three loss teams.

While I do hear where you are coming from... using the same logic, a team could lose the national championship game and still be Number one

	31-10-2002 09:47									#206
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: While I do hear where you are coming from... using the same logic, a team could lose the national championship game and still be Number one

You're damn right. And it should've happened in 1983!

Seriously though, in the rare occurence that a two loss team beats an undefeated team in the national title game, I would say that the two loss team deserves the title. One small exception in my logic...

	31-10-2002 09:48									#207
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten quote: Then, by the same token, your undefeated team wasn't the best team either. How did I say that? Even with one loss, they still would have had a more deserving season than the 8-3 team did. If Nebraska beats Oklahoma in the Big 12 title game, I would still rank OU over NU. One loss teams are more deserving than three loss teams.

What I'm trying to say is that, you are willing to give that undefeated team an excuse of " we lost our QB!" while not giving that better 8-3 team the same excuse for losing 3 games.

	31-10-2002 09:54									#208
	Got spare money?

Drake, Miami won that game fair and square. Why should Nebraska be #1 after losing their last game of the season? As I've proven here in this thread, that sort of special treatment is only reserved for Notre Dame - others need not apply.

	31-10-2002 09:58									#209
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

quote: What I'm trying to say is that, you are willing to give that undefeated team an excuse of " we lost our QB!" while not giving that better 8-3 team the same excuse for losing 3 games.

If my point came across that way, then I apologize. That isn't what I meant.

My point was that quality of play over the entire season is a much more accurate determiner of a team's quality than one game. The three loss team may win the playoff game, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they were the better team over the whole season. Their three losses would seem to indicate otherwise, which is why I don't think they should be given a shot.

If you lose more than one game during the season, I don't want to see you get a chance at the national title. You didn't earn it.

	31-10-2002 10:00									#210
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Drake, Miami won that game fair and square. Why should Nebraska be #1 after losing their last game of the season? As I've proven here in this thread, that sort of special treatment is only reserved for Notre Dame - others need not apply.

Here's a newsflash for you --- I was joking!

The fact that I argued against such a practice later in my post should've clued you in to that...