01-11-2002 05:11									#211
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quote: Originally posted by Ming Actually... I read a similar proposal last year... I don't think any of us can take credit for such an idea, we can only agree and improve on it

I posted a similar proposal last year... actually, exactly the same proposal last year.

	01-11-2002 05:17									#212
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The proposal I was refering to was written by some consulting group for use by the TV Networks

	01-11-2002 05:21									#213
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quote: Originally posted by Ming The proposal I was refering to was written by some consulting group for use by the TV Networks

Consulting groups suck!

ACK!

	01-11-2002 07:49									#214
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quote: Originally posted by Ming But I agree... out of all the suggestions, I still like the "pick the best 8 teams with 1 loss or less and let them play" idea the best. Then the worst case will be that the national champ has only one loss, and no team will be left undefeated, and it will still be proved on the field instead of on paper.

In the spirit of plagiarism...

...that sounds a lot like my idea *pats self on back*

	01-11-2002 22:06									#215
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quote: You honestly can't see how giving a three loss team a shot at the title lessens the importance of the regular season?

I can't. Obviously in the regular season the other teams in the conference had the same number of losses.

I would (the Imran plan ) have every conference champion go on plus 1 at large. However, I'd LIMIT each conference to 12 teams and have every team play every other team in conference (no out of conference games) and then we can see who is the best in the conference.

	02-11-2002 04:27									#216
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui I can't. Obviously in the regular season the other teams in the conference had the same number of losses.

Well, in the current system a team could go, say, 8-0 in conference games and 0-3 in nonconference games and be conference champ over a team that was 7-1 and 3-0. But you did make a proposal:

quote: I would (the Imran plan ) have every conference champion go on plus 1 at large. However, I'd LIMIT each conference to 12 teams and have every team play every other team in conference (no out of conference games) and then we can see who is the best in the conference.

There'd have to be a lot of reorganized conferences for that system to be fair. I mean... records aside, in many years the top 3 teams in, say, the Big 10 or SEC are stronger than the top team from, say, the MAC or Sun Belt. Why send a champion from a weak conference to a championship playoff (where they'll be blown out, anyway) ahead of a stronger team that finished 2nd in a stronger conference?

I can see sending undefeated conference champions... there's merit in being undefeated. But if you want (for example) New Mexico State in there, well, c'mon... who wants that? They're 5-3, and nobody else in their conference is even .500!

I can't see how your scheme would work without inducing good teams to flee good conferences for weaker ones.

	02-11-2002 06:20									#217
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quote: I can't. Obviously in the regular season the other teams in the conference had the same number of losses.

This is a completely false statement. To use the Big 12 as an example, Oklahoma could go undefeated this year and then get beat in the Big 12 title game by the Big 12 North champ. This year, it is looking more and more likely that the Big 12 North champ will have at least two in-conference losses, plus any non-conference losses they may have acrued. Thus a two or even three loss team would represent the Big 12, not a one loss Oklahoma. If Texas keeps winning, you would also leave a one loss Texas team out of the mix. So how exactly does taking only the conference champ into a tourney maintain the importance of the regular season?

This isn't a problem only with the Big 12, as the SEC has a similar system. How is a tourney that has a high potential of screwing the best teams in the two best conferences in college football a good idea?

	02-11-2002 13:14									#218
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Ok... I'm convinced... let's just take the 8 best teams with one or no losses and let them play it out. At least the whining will be minimized since no team will have a better record than the team that wins

	03-11-2002 04:06									#219
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Well, there's one team out of the hunt this year.

Has to be the worst game of football I've seen in quite a while.

	03-11-2002 05:05									#220
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Anyway, I would point out that college football is the most popular college sport. Because of this, I think they're doing an awful lot right. There's a lot of opportunity to screw up what is good about college football.

First, do no harm!

	03-11-2002 05:24									#221
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Yeah, but it's time to fix what's WRONG with College Football... how they determine their champion.

	03-11-2002 05:28									#222
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I think they pick their champion just fine. A full 21% agree with me!

	03-11-2002 05:36									#223
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Well... ND lost today and so did NC State. Only 6 unbeaten left.

	03-11-2002 09:13									#224
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Great Caesar's ghost.

Four unbeatens implode on the same day, and another flirted with diaster for three full quarters.

Miami, Oklahoma, Ohio State, and Bowling Green still unscathed. Virginia Tech, Notre Dame, NC State, and Georgia all bite the dust.

The good news for that second group of teams is that said group of teams is so large; they are all still in it, provided the unbeatens lose. And all three "major" unbeatens still have huge obstacles ahead of them; Miami is looking more vulnerable by the week.

Surpisingly, there might not be three or more unbeatens by season's end. Chances are getting better that there might be none at all, but instead a whole mess of one-loss teams with an axe to grind.

	03-11-2002 09:18									#225
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Me to that asswipe with the 15-yard personal foul:

GA's BCS chances have

	03-11-2002 10:05									#226
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Watch Bowling Green be the only unbeaten... wouldn't that be a riot

	03-11-2002 10:08									#227
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So much for all the worrying about having a ton of unbeatens at the end of the year. Only Oklahoma, Miami, and Ohio State are left and one of them is bound to lose sometime. It always works out somehow.

	03-11-2002 10:12									#228
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But what if all three take a loss... it is possible because they all have at least one tough game... it could get even more interesting...

	03-11-2002 10:15									#229
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quote: But what if all three take a loss... it is possible because they all have at least one tough game... it could get even more interesting...

You're absolutely right and I love every second of it. It wouldn't be college football without some sort of controversy...

	10-11-2002 11:17									#230
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Here we are three weeks later. Two undefeated teams and still plenty of season left to go.

	10-11-2002 14:35									#231
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Both teams could take a loss and really make this interesting. I just hate the BCS

	10-11-2002 19:53									#232
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Ohio State continues to flirt with disaster week after week (the Minnesota game being an exception). If they don't snap out of it, they're in for a very long game a couple weeks from now against Michigan.

Miami still has to get past Pittsburgh and Virginia Tech. The Panthers are red-hot and fear no one, and VT will be looking at the game as a chance to salvage their season. With a suspect run defense, Miami is very, very vulnerable in both games. EDIT: Forgot, Miami also has to get past Syracuse in the Carrier Dome. A few weeks ago, this wasn't worth mentioning. But suddenly, the Orangemen are looking like the 'Cuse of old, shredding VT for well over 500 yards...

So I was wrong; there won't be three or more undefeated teams. But the way these teams have looked recently, I'd be shocked if both of them remain undefeated. And even if they do, the BCS is still a sham.

Last edited by Guynemer on 10-11-2002 at 20:04

	10-11-2002 21:34									#233
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quote: Originally posted by Guynemer Ohio State continues to flirt with disaster week after week (the Minnesota game being an exception). If they don't snap out of it, they're in for a very long game a couple weeks from now against Michigan.

Ohio State has the best defense in the NCAA and couple that with the best feild goal kicker and a great punter their offense just has to keep from losing. The Buckeyes will get past Indiana and then crush the hell out of that team up north.

	11-11-2002 22:52									#234
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quote: Here we are three weeks later. Two undefeated teams and still plenty of season left to go.

What if Ohio State loses to Michigan (which is a definite possibility) and Miami loses to Virginia Tech (well, not as likely).

So who do you pick for the Top 2? Miami, Ohio State, Texas, Washington State, Oklahoma, Iowa, Georgia? What a mess!

	11-11-2002 23:28									#235
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No more or less a mess than any other situation. We go by a cross between the popularity polls and the computer rankings.

It would be the worst if there is a wide difference between the popularity polls and the computer rankings. This is because it would make a very close choice among all of the candidates. But even there, it wouldn't be a mess.

	11-11-2002 23:37									#236
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And that's why we need a play off system that features more than just two teams. There could be a significant difference between the polls and the BCS rankings. If OSU and Miami go down in flames and lose a game, there are FAR more than just two teams who can honestly say they deserve a shot at the big game. It would be the same situation as if we had a bunch of undefeated teams

	11-11-2002 23:49									#237
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OK, now you're changing your position--originally being that teams without losses didn't have their full measure taken. By your (original) system, a lot has been accomplished already.

There are only six 1-loss teams in the top 20 of the ESPN/USA Today poll. Presumably, this will shrink somewhat over the next 3 weeks. After that, we should have a great group of Bowl teams based primarily on the quality of teams that each has beaten.

This is working fabulously, so far.

	11-11-2002 23:58									#238
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quote: Originally posted by DanS OK, now you're changing your position--originally being that teams without losses didn't have their full measure taken.

No... not changing anything. I still say that teams that have no losses haven't had their full measure taken.

Plus, both my suggestions (granted similar or identical to those submitted by others) would give ANY undefeated team (unless there were more than 8 of them with my first suggestion or two undefeated teams in the same conference in my second suggestion) a chance to go for it.

And I don't agree that things are shaping up well at all.
If only OSU and Miami finish the season undefeated, then there will be no argument... (yeah yeah yeah, I'm sure somebody will whine that a team with one loss is better) the two teams that deserve a crack at it got it. But as many of us pointed out, this may not happen.

If one or two one loss team gets picked for the championship game, then again we have some silly ranking system being used instead of letting the teams play it out on the field. The difference in the polls and the BCS rankings truely indicate that there is room for disagreement.

	12-11-2002 00:06									#239
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"If one or two one loss team gets picked for the championship game, then again we have some silly ranking system being used instead of letting the teams play it out on the field."

Not silly at all. While there can be disagreement between the two, both pillars are based on how well a team does on the field, with a small stress on how well they've done lately.

	12-11-2002 00:36									#240
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It isn't based on how they played on the field... it's based soley on an "estimate" of strength of schedule. Unless all teams play all teams, strength of schedule is a guess at best. Basing it on how the team does on the field means just that... letting the contenders actually PLAY each other to prove who it the best... not some computer geeks program that rates the strength of schedule.