25-11-2002 03:05									#1
	Should BCS Be Replaced By Playoffs? -- Guynemer's Proposal -- Part II Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Let the fun continue. Last thread we got a good 25% of the vote to keep the current system. Our side definitely exceeded expectations.

So, as they say in Chicago... "Vote early and often".

The old thread...

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...&threadid=65638

	25-11-2002 03:08									#2
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Thanks DanS... You desever the honor of starting part II.

And some people didn't think we could get it to 500

But to continue... Drake... have you ever talked to an Athletic Director on this subject... or are you just making this stuff up

	25-11-2002 03:09									#3
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To recap, Ming and Imran were ratcheting up the rhetoric when presented with a season in which the BCS has worked a whole lot better than a 4, 8 or 16-team playoff would have.

Ming should know better than to call the bowl sponsors "greedy" and "corrupt." Is he communist or something? Is there anything wrong with promoting products (orange growers, tourism, FedEx, corn chips)?

	25-11-2002 03:17									#4
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I have no problem with people making money... I'm a good Capitalist, However, I do have a problem with greedy bloodsucking bastards who have no involvement in the sport deciding who gets a chance at the championship. The determining of that should be made by the NCAA... they should have an 8 team playoff system... AND NOT USE THE BOWL GAMES AT ALL. They should be the ones to make a profit... a profit that will beniffit the schools and not those greedy old farts.

If they want to continue the bowl system... let them, but they can't have the best 8 teams. Other deserving schools can get the day in the sun, make some extra money, make some profits for the old farts and the TV networks... And we can have a true championship series.

	25-11-2002 03:21									#5
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I think you are underestimating the fact that decreasing the drama in any regular season game would make it much less profitable for all. Consider OSU and Michigan, who can put 105,000 asses in seats for all home games and have 75% share in their home TV markets.

	25-11-2002 03:23									#6
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What would be a travesty is to hear the following, which I heard on a sports talk show this weekend regarding the NFL...

"The regular season is fun, but the real game starts in the playoffs."

	25-11-2002 03:29									#7
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quote: Originally posted by DanS I think you are underestimating the fact that decreasing the drama in any regular season game would make it much less profitable for all. Consider OSU and Michigan, who can put 105,000 asses in seats for all home games and have 75% share in their home TV markets.

They fill those 105 thousand seats when neither team has a chance for the national championship... They just hate each other.

I think you are overestimating the impact. It might actually increase the interest with 8 teams having a chance. Just think how imporant some of the last games could be for those teams on the edge.

It's not like we are talking about The NFL, NBA, or NHL when a high percentage of teams make the playoffs.

8 teams out of 117 or so... The real season will be important. There are still conferences to win, and grudge matches that have been around a long time.

	25-11-2002 04:46									#8
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Two thirds of Poly votes no! Who's on top now, Ming?

	25-11-2002 04:47									#9
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Two thirds of Poly votes no! Who's on top now, Ming?

	25-11-2002 08:28									#10
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quote: Originally posted by DanS What would be a travesty is to hear the following, which I heard on a sports talk show this weekend regarding the NFL... "The regular season is fun, but the real game starts in the playoffs."

I still fail to see how the regular season becomes irrelevant under my proposal. Chances are more than one conference loss, and you're toast; often, any conference loss at all and it's all over.


I will be having a simulated tournament, under the guidelines of my proposal, on NCAA Football 2003. Granted, artificial as hell, but it ought to be fun. So, given that it is artificial, a question:

Should I have a pre-tourney Big Ten Championship game, given OSU & Iowa are both 8-0 in the conference? The loser would still be wild card eligible. (And if Iowa wins, I imagine OSU would be a wild card lock, with wins over Michigan, PSU, and Wazzou.) Or, should I just say OSU is Big Ten champ by virtue of a better overall record, and let the chips fall where they may re: Iowa & the wildcard?

	25-11-2002 10:50									#11
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I would like to point out that this poll is worded very differently from the original poll - more vague and misleading, imho.

I think we now have conclusive proof that Dan works for a Democratic polling agency - don't like the response? Change the questions!

	25-11-2002 10:52									#12
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Btw, I'm changing my vote. I don't think the BCS is the greatest system, but I have come to realize that a playoff would not be in the best interest of college ball. Coach Richt made that obvious to me.

	25-11-2002 11:18									#13
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quote: a season in which the BCS has worked a whole lot better than a 4, 8 or 16-team playoff would have.

The best claim you can make for the BCS is that it would have worked just as good as a playoff would. It CAN'T work better. Playoffs determine who is the most deserving. Like in the NFL last year. You decide that with polls and you have St. Louis vs. Miami (or something). New England does not factor in, even though they showed on the field they were the best.

quote: "The regular season is fun, but the real game starts in the playoffs."

The regular season is fun, but the real game starts in the Bowls. Happier?

And yes, I despise the current system and want for a playoff no matter what.

	25-11-2002 19:12									#14
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I suggest that the folks who are most ardent defenders of the BCS system are those who feel their respective teams have the most to lose in the long run. Afterall those teams who are the so called elite can pick and choose their scheduled opponents and thereby are guaranteed a toughness of schedule bonus. Upstart programs will forever be second class citizens.

Long live the tyrranny of the so-called elite NCAA Div1 teams!!!

	25-11-2002 20:06									#15
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"I would like to point out that this poll is worded very differently from the original poll - more vague and misleading, imho."

	26-11-2002 05:34									#16
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Well... no matter how the poll is worded , the results are moving back to the way they were in the original poll

	26-11-2002 06:52									#17
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We got the mo on our side this time. Even JohnT agrees with us!

	26-11-2002 11:49									#18
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The BCS ratings this week show what a total farce they are...

Last week:
Miami = 3.69
OSU = 3.70

And what happens this week... Miami beats a 19th ranked team...

And OSU beats the 9th ranked team:

This week:
Miami = 2.89
OSU = 4.21

All because Washington State lost...



This "computer ranking system" is just unbelievable

	26-11-2002 12:08									#19
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Playoffs work just fine for 1-AA football; they ought to be able to work for 1-A somehow. Any playoff format would be better than the BCS currently in place.

	26-11-2002 12:45									#20
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We should go back to the Bowl system circa 1970. Restore the tradition of the Bowls and screw the national championship (which is an inane concept anyway). Let there be 5-6 major bowl champions (Rose, Cotton, Orange, Sugar, Fiesta, maybe another), another 10 minor bowl champions, and send more players and fans home happy. The obsession with the national championship is in microcosm everything that's wrong with college sports.

	26-11-2002 12:46									#21
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A playoff works fine in D-II because no one watches or cares about the D-II regular season. Do you want D-I to be the same way?

	26-11-2002 13:22									#22
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten A playoff works fine in D-II because no one watches or cares about the D-II regular season. Do you want D-I to be the same way?

Tell that to the fans of those schools that "No one watches or cares about the regular season" and they will laugh at you louder than I do.

And as far as 1 - A goes, people pack the stadiums of schools like OSU and Michigan EVERY week when their schools are out of the hunt of the national championship... and they too will laugh at you for saying that a playoff will make them less interested in those regular season games. They come from miles around, camp out in the parking lot... a playoff system isn't going to change that anymore than the current system does.

You are really digging deep to find any argument you can to support your weak position... too bad you are now resorting to arguments that aren't even true

	26-11-2002 13:48									#23
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quote: Tell that to the fans of those schools that "No one watches or cares about the regular season" and they will laugh at you louder than I do.

Can I just tell it to one fan, or do I have to talk to all five of them?

quote: And as far as 1 - A goes, people pack the stadiums of schools like OSU and Michigan EVERY week when their schools are out of the hunt of the national championship... and they too will laugh at you for saying that a playoff will make them less interested in those regular season games.

Last weekend's OSU-Michigan game would not have been nearly as hyped-up and exciting if a playoff system was in effect. While Michigan wants to beat OSU every year, the fact that Michigan could completely ruin OSU's run at the national title with a victory this year took the game's excitement to the next level.

With a playoff, scenarios like this wouldn't happen anymore. If Michigan pulls off the upset, what really happens? They get some bragging rights, but OSU still probably makes the top-8 of the BCS and goes to the playoff. Don't you see how this takes a lot of the fun out of college football? The fact that every game counts in college football is what makes it great. Your precious playoff would destroy all that.

quote: You are really digging deep to find any argument you can to support your weak position...

At least I don't have to claim that my opponents position is "weak"; I can prove it, unlike a certain person involved in this discussion.

	26-11-2002 17:03									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten A playoff works fine in D-II because no one watches or cares about the D-II regular season. Do you want D-I to be the same way?

Elitist Tyrant snobbery showing!!

	26-11-2002 17:06									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Drake Tungsten Last weekend's OSU-Michigan game would not have been nearly as hyped-up and exciting if a playoff system was in effect. While Michigan wants to beat OSU every year, the fact that Michigan could completely ruin OSU's run at the national title with a victory this year took the game's excitement to the next level. With a playoff, scenarios like this wouldn't happen anymore. If Michigan pulls off the upset, what really happens? They get some bragging rights, but OSU still probably makes the top-8 of the BCS and goes to the playoff. Don't you see how this takes a lot of the fun out of college football? The fact that every game counts in college football is what makes it great. Your precious playoff would destroy all that.

Ummm..... No everyone would have watched to see if Michigan could have staged an upset and gotten themselves into a position where they made it into the top 8.

	26-11-2002 18:31									#26
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quote: Last weekend's OSU-Michigan game would not have been nearly as hyped-up and exciting if a playoff system was in effect.

You know NOTHING about Michigan-OSU do you? If they were both unranked it would have been just as exciting. Playoffs have nothing to do with it.

	26-11-2002 18:49									#27
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quote: quote: Last weekend's OSU-Michigan game would not have been nearly as hyped-up and exciting if a playoff system was in effect. You know NOTHING about Michigan-OSU do you? If they were both unranked it would have been just as exciting. Playoffs have nothing to do with it.

Yep you are so right. Some people just don't understand. They could probably play each other 5 weeks in a row, and they'd pack that place every week.
There is a reason why the big 10 made them natural opponents and schedule them every year in the last week of conference play.

	26-11-2002 19:23									#28
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It's the same with Auburn and Alabama. Alabama was forbidden from postseason play, but that didn't make the game any less exciting!

Georgia/Georgia Tech has usually not had any impact on the bowls, because they play in different divisions and they haven't been in a position for the national championship game, but that doesn't mean it was any less intense.

	26-11-2002 20:11									#29
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Yeh, I chuckled when I read Drake's Michigan/OSU line. Every other game would have been impacted, but not the Michigan game.

The negative impact of a playoff would creep along. Few of the couple hundred thousand tailgaters at an OSU football game would stop immediately--it's a way of life, after all. OSU would still pack in 105k each game.

But anything that has the possibility of harming those golden eggs over the long run should be evaluated in the harshest light. Say whatever you like about playoffs. They would definitely decrease the importance of a lot of games vis-a-vis the national championship.

	26-11-2002 20:25									#30
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From a rivalry POV what everyone here says is onthe money wrt OSU vs. Michigan. They'll pack the houses everytime they play regardless of game significance.

I'm supposing what Drake was refering to was what the less interested parties (the greater National Audience w/o ties to Michigan or OSU) found appealing in the matchup.

I again assert it would have had national appeal as it would have been a do or die game (plus the fact you can count on both teams hating each other) for Michigan in order to make the playoffs.