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Apolyton Civilization Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.0.3 Apolyton Civilization Forums > Miscellaneous > Archive > Off-Topic-Archive > Nov 30th 1939 - A Date which will live in Infamy
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Comrade Tassadar is offline Comrade Tassadar
Settler

Aug 2005
time: 05:24
  Old Post 02-12-2002 07:59 Visit Comrade Tassadar's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
Tassadar, That's just evil ! .


Hmm....Which is better: Helsinkagrad or Helsinkagorsk?

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
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  Old Post 02-12-2002 08:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Tassadar5000


Hmm....Which is better: Helsinkagrad or Helsinkagorsk?



Would you like to be burried head to the sunrise, or sunset?

Shi Huangdi is offline Shi Huangdi
Emperor
Pittsburgh, PA
Apr 1999
time: 00:24
  Old Post 02-12-2002 08:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Tassadar5000


Argh, it is time to settle this once and for all....



I take it the Red Country in your map must be the new Finnish Empire. Yes, that is what would happen if your shittified military tried to go up against the mighty Finnish military machine. It would be another humiliation for Russia, but then that is something you are used to....

Comrade Tassadar is offline Comrade Tassadar
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Aug 2005
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quote:
Would you like to be burried head to the sunrise, or sunset?


Theres a sun in your country?



quote:
Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
I take it the Red Country in your map must be the new Finnish Empire. Yes, that is what would happen if your shittified military tried to go up against the mighty Finnish military machine. It would be another humiliation for Russia, but then that is something you are used to....


I think someones a bit jealous cause they haven't been able to sucessfully invade us....

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:24
  Old Post 02-12-2002 08:33
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We get it.. don't you?

But it's good we have close relations now, and chance for war is slim to none in the future. For war, you'd have to attack first.. and I can't see why you'd want that.
And because we're such good neighbors now, you could give us Karelia back.. as a show of good faith.. right? .

Also we can trade, you give us your space program, and we give you our mind control program.

Comrade Tassadar is offline Comrade Tassadar
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Aug 2005
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  Old Post 02-12-2002 08:42 Visit Comrade Tassadar's homepage!
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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
And because we're such good neighbors now, you could give us Karelia back.. as a show of good faith.. right? .


Hmm.....well......Tell you what. If you join our federation, we'll bundle Karelia right in with the "Finn Oblast" Do we have a deal...?

quote:
Also we can trade, you give us your space program, and we give you our mind control program.


You first

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
em seu burro dos pais!
Feb 2002
time: 07:24
  Old Post 02-12-2002 08:45
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Tassadar, Grrrrr... you're tough negotiator. I think we will not see any solutions for coming years .

Hurricane is offline Hurricane
Warlord
Arctic Hill
May 2001
time: 07:24
  Old Post 02-12-2002 11:49
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I certainly don't want Karelia back. And I'm positive most Finns agree with me.

Serb is offline Serb
Prince
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:24
  Old Post 02-12-2002 14:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Sprayber


Then quit your *****ing and be more careful about who you call a Nazi in the future.

When I called YOU a nazi?

quote:
And get over this need to defend Russia against every little thing.

Against lies, not little things. Statement about historical shitiness of Russian military is lie, jealous lie.

quote:
Just admit that the SU was wrong to invade Finland.

I've never denied this. Agression is agression. SU had started this war, USSR acted as agressor, and it doesn't matter what reasons pushed Stalin to war- He started it- SU is responsible for beggining of war. So, yes it was wrong.
Are you ready to admit let's say after 50 years (when your empire will collapse ) that American attaxk vs. Iraq was because of OIL, not because of self-defense?
Personaly I see very good paralel betwen Stalin's order to attack Finland (for self-defense only as he was saying) and Bush's desire to attack Iraq (sure for self-defence too).

Serb is offline Serb
Prince
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:24
  Old Post 02-12-2002 14:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
Broke the Mannerheim Line? In which game or movie or fantasy? .

It was broken. Otherwise why do you think your government agreed to fullfil Stalin's demands and surendered part of its territory to SU?
If it wasn't broken and there was no real threat of complete occupation, you could continue to killing Russkies and let them freeze to death, while seating in your warm bunkers. Why to agree with enemy demands and give-up your territory then?
quote:
I guess he didn't want to continue the war that was costing so much? We were getting troops of Britain and so (though not sure if it would have happened, but Stalin didn't know that).

GB and France were pretty close to declaration of war on SU. French prepared their 150 000 troops of expedition force and Brits were ready to send submarines in Black sea. Stalin knew this from the beggining. That's why he ordered to make this campaign as fast as possible and as silent as possible.
quote:
Besides, we don't belong to you.. how do you figure that?

At least Karelia belonged to Novgorod, (in times when Finland belonged to Sweden I guees )
quote:
Buuut.. you're welcomed here, again, like last time .

You know, the ways of modern warfare is a bit differnt then they were in 1939.

I don't beleive we will ever fight again, at least not in near future. You guys are Ok
(well, a bit... slow but still Ok )

Serb is offline Serb
Prince
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:24
  Old Post 02-12-2002 15:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Pekka
Lefty, well it's not our fault you know.. sometimes when I go to the supermarket to get some marlboros, I have to fight polar bear, and maybe even some wolves. And we have tight gun control, so it's pretty much hand to hand.. or should I say hand to claw fights. It makes you tough let me tell you that one. In winter time, when there's no food and it's cold, you have to kill few bears to get yourself warm coats, and maybe wild horse to get something to go with your bread.

And you have to cross those frozen lakes that always brakes when you walk in it, so you have to learn to swim in freezing water, alter your body so you won't die because you went for a coffee with your buddies.


Well said Pekka, how good I understand you. You know, I'm from Siberia, the only difference with your story is that we have brown bears instead of polar here.

Rasbelin is offline Rasbelin

Emperor
Tampere (Tammerfors), Finland
Nov 1999
time: 07:24
  Old Post 02-12-2002 15:58 Visit Rasbelin<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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First of all, the Mannerheim line was broken during the war, so Serb is right. But he's wrong with the claim that Karelia would have been a part of Novgorod. Njet, Serb. It was captured by Tyrgils Knutsson during the 3rd Swedish crusade to eastern Finland in 1298. He even reached the river Neva, but Landskrona was destryoed quickly by the Russians (Novgorod), so he had to retreat abit. The peace treaty of Nöteborg in 1323 (in Finnish: Pähkinälinnan rauha) of set the first borders of "Finland." BTW, he also found Vyborg.

This is all simple Medieval history.

Serb is offline Serb
Prince
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:24
  Old Post 02-12-2002 16:09
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quote:
Originally posted by DinoDoc
The Crimean War, The Russo-Japanese War, WWI, & the present day are signs of the historical shitiness of the Russian military machine. WWII was a high point for you.


You think you are funny DD? 27 millions of Soviet people died. COULD YOU ****ING IMAGINE 27 0 0 0 0 0 0 P E O P L E?

You are sick, arrogant, self-praising egoistic bastards. How dare you to insult memory of people who died in war vs. nazism? Who the **** are you to make such claims? A guy whose country's total amount of wars during its entire history is less then amount of fingers on two palms. And you dare to lecturing Russians who spend thousand years in constant wars and military campaigns. Do you have any idea how many wars we've won? Why every time, when somebody conquered entire Europe and defeat all European powers one by one, it was Russia who crushed him in the end. Karl XII, Napoleon, Hitler all of them were damn arrogant and have the same arrogant opinion about Russian military, they paid for their arrogance. You will be next.


David, the same bs as always. Nothing changes
Don't have time now. Just once again, one, single point- Lend-Lease was only 5% in total Soviet war-expenses. Five percents David. F I V E F I V E Do you get it? Describing it as you do, like- "we feed you, we suplied you with arms and ammo, etc. We gave you EVERYTHING. It's American victory. We saved the world, we are true heroes" Is bullshit. TOTAL bullshit.
Have a nice day.

Serb is offline Serb
Prince
Siberia, Communist party of Apolyton
Nov 2001
time: 11:24
  Old Post 02-12-2002 16:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Rasbelin
Njet, Serb.


It was...it was Ask Swedes from Paradox, who created Europa Universalise. On their map Karelia belong to Novgorod. I trust them, because it's true

Last edited by Serb on 02-12-2002 at 16:33

Rasbelin is offline Rasbelin

Emperor
Tampere (Tammerfors), Finland
Nov 1999
time: 07:24
  Old Post 02-12-2002 16:38 Visit Rasbelin<br><a href=/members><img src=/forums/images/supporter-icon.gif border=0></a><BR>'s homepage!
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Damn you, Serb. You shouldn't trust them too much.

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 02-12-2002 18:16
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Mannerheim broken shmoken.. it was lightly touched, penetrated from few points at the most .

Serb, Well I think you got it worse (the cold) in Siberia. Also we have brown bears, no polar bears here. But the part about fighting wolves is true!

But no, I can't see us doing it anymore in our time. Only scenario I see it going on is if the US and Russia had problems and Russia invaded Estonia.. Then we'd be in a spot where both would want our butt, by force or by alliance. Fortunately, that is not in the near future either so I guess we can sleep peacefully.

And when it comes to Karelia, I think most Finns wouldn't want it. Just because it would cost so much, and people hate paying so much taxes already.

I wouldn't trust Swedes maps though, I can't trust any country that hasn't got a decent hockey team .

Seeker is offline Seeker
Emperor
London Ontario
Jan 1970
time: 00:24
  Old Post 02-12-2002 19:35 Visit Seeker's homepage!
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Geeze, now I know why Reagan used to talk about the Winnable War....maybe seeing the Stars and Stripes flying from the Kremlin Krater would shut guys like Serb up...

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
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Sep 1999
time: 23:24
  Old Post 02-12-2002 19:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Serb
You think you are funny DD?
Sadly I was only speaking the truth. You suffered humiliating defeats in all of the wars I listed.

quote:
Karl XII, Napoleon, Hitler all of them were damn arrogant and have the same arrogant opinion about Russian military, they paid for their arrogance.
Yes and Wilhelm II knocked you out of his war even though you were facing less than half of his army.

I wouldn't get all happy about Napoleon either. Your military never won a major battle against him.

David Floyd is offline David Floyd
King
The bottom of a large bottle of beer
Jan 1970
time: 05:24
  Old Post 02-12-2002 20:42 Visit David Floyd's homepage!
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Serb, we can argue percentages and Lend Lease all day long. What you're going to have to admit, though, is that the physical participation of the United States in the war was vastly more important that "5% of Soviet production".

Gangerolf is offline Gangerolf
Prince
huuhh
May 2001
time: 06:24
  Old Post 02-12-2002 20:42
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When will Finland join Nato?

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 02-12-2002 20:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Gangerolf
When will Finland join Nato?
NATO shouldn't be expanded into Eastern Europe.

Gangerolf is offline Gangerolf
Prince
huuhh
May 2001
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  Old Post 02-12-2002 20:46
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well it already is...

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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  Old Post 02-12-2002 20:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Gangerolf
well it already is...
Exactly. I was against it from the start.

David Floyd is offline David Floyd
King
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Jan 1970
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I'd be in favor of disbanding NATO and letting Europe organize their own common defense organization. Not as if they need one, of course.

Gangerolf is offline Gangerolf
Prince
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May 2001
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  Old Post 02-12-2002 20:54
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an EU-army?

no thanks

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
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Sep 1999
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quote:
Originally posted by David Floyd
I'd be in favor of disbanding NATO
Strangely enough there is no real support for that position on either side of the pond.

Gangerolf is offline Gangerolf
Prince
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May 2001
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  Old Post 02-12-2002 20:59
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quote:
I'd be in favor of disbanding NATO and letting Europe organize their own common defense organization. Not as if they need one, of course.


well we could keep NATO, but throw out the US and Canada.

but I don't see why we should do that.

DinoDoc is offline DinoDoc
Emperor
AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
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Back on topic, let's get back to talking about whether or not the Russian army has been historically ****.

Stefu is offline Stefu
Emperor
CLOWNS WIT DA DOWNS 4 LIFE YO!
Jan 1970
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quote:
When will Finland join Nato?


It's a hot topic here. Majority of people are against Finland joining, but you never know what the political leadership is going to do.

Pekka is offline Pekka
Chieftain
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Feb 2002
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  Old Post 02-12-2002 21:11
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Yep.. about 60% against, 40% for.. it's mainly dispute about money again. It would cost us pretty much, and we hate paying more taxes and stuff.
I think we should join NATO, but not if there was an option for EU-army. We should do that one.

 
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