30-01-2003 03:52									#301
	Remove this text

I have been trying to come up with some sort of an easy to review summary table that would replace the textual summaries I currently use in the Chronicle entries. Here is the (interim) result of my efforts - this is what would appear in the Chronicle for 2110BC:



I am aware of that there is an important piece of information still missing - the treasury value (gold) and the research progress. I will probably have to add one more table for these data, as it would not fit very nicely within the format of this city summary table.

I will apreciate if you comment on this draft, perhaps suggesting improvements - as I'm going to redo all the summaries since Turn 1 into this new format, it would be nice if you look at this table and tell me whether it contains what you are usually looking for and if it is easy to find there before I do the re-formatting.

I hope there is no key needed - just that the data with the yellow background are those that has changed since 2150BC.

I intend to maintain all the summary tables in one XLS file for anyone interested in doing research or analysis on the data collected.

	30-01-2003 04:15									#302
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Also, I would like to check if anyone actually uses the following stuff I (sometimes) make available on the server:

1) F1 Screen (if it gets uploaded, usually with pop changes)
2) F11 Screen
3) received savegame
4) played savegame
5) sent savegame

I am especially interested in knowing whether anyone uses the F11 (Demographics) Screen image - it takes quite some space and if I find out nobody actually looks at it, I will drop it from the Chronicle entries.

The last change I actually consider is to keep only the latest "sent" savegame on the server. The reason for uploading it there is that any member of our team can resend it, should Gathering Storm ask (whatever the reason - they may get the file corrupted, I may forget to attach it at all... whatever). But that is likely to happen only for the very latest save, which means keeping the very last save on the server should be enough...

Be so kind and comment - I haven't had troubles using more and more space on our corporate server, but I intend to cut the used space as low as possible, since if/when I run into troubles, it will already be too late... even though I am relatively free to use the space reasonably, it is a bit uncertain whether the owner would consider screen captures from the Apolyton PtWDG "reasonable"...

	30-01-2003 04:22									#303
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I read the Demographics sometimes, but mostly I don't remember to. What about including the less used screens every third or fourth turn?

	30-01-2003 05:27									#304
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I check the demographics every chronicle update, but that's just me. I just like to see where we stand in the grand scheme of things.

I usually use the "finished turn" if I need a save file for some reason, such as taking screen shots, etc.

I do like your new table, it presents the information in a clear and straight-forward fashion. I would imagine that everyone would be able to understand it quite well.

	30-01-2003 06:43									#305
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Hi all, finally back with a replacement monitor after the other one failed during that irc chat on Superbowl Sunday.

I check the demographics update every turn and occasionally the F1 Domestic Hag screen. Of course, the links to the saves are very useful as well. The new table idea is very nice too.

1) Angus W, then NW
Might want to consider N instead for the 2nd turn as we can already see that there is land to the north.

2) Settler+Merc SW, then S, S
Yep

3) Gaul W, then E, NE, E, NE
Not sure what you see - I only see a whale 2 squares west of the most SW tip of our landmass. That likely means ocean or sea beyond doesn't it - still doesn't hurt to check perhaps.

4) Conan S, then SW
Agreed

5) MercG E, popping the hut
Agreed

6) Merciless to fortify in Jackson
Hmm, might want to consider sending him to uncover those dark spots to the southeast.

7) Worker to road, then mine
Sure

8) New Worker NW, then road
Agreed

ad 3) there is something two tiles west from the southwesternmost tip of our landmass. I hope Gaul will be able to determine what if getting one tile closer...

Err... I am almost certain that it's a whale

By the way, tried to log into the Legoland irc chat room and it said that my address was denied permission... anyone have an idea what might have happened?

	30-01-2003 11:04									#306
	Put an end to popups!

I also check the Demographics screenshot quite often.

The new table in nice The only thing I'd change about it is actually a simplification: I, personally, am curious only about the surplus food, the raw and eaten figures doesn't interest me.

What I couldn't comprehend is what is the logic behing the yellow cells That eluded me completely.

Edit: Oh, yes, I download almost always the received savegame. To avoid problems with storage space, I think you can keep only the latest sent save and only the latest demographics screen.

Last edited by Tiberius on 30-01-2003 at 11:16

	30-01-2003 21:00									#307
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Well, sorry for the delay - I had to go downtown in the morning and after I came back and wrote the entry, I lost it to some weird browser action. Stupid me, I did not make a copy of the text before hitting the Preview Post button... It then took me some time to cool down and write it one more time.

Sharpe will be happy to know that we no longer need to research The Wheel! We've got it free of charge from Illuryians. The goody huts has been just sweet in this game... almost half of our research is actually sponsored by lesser tribes...

OK, our plan for the next turn:

1) Angus NW
2) Settler+Mercred S
3) Gaul E
4) Conan SW
5) MercG N
6) Leopold to road the riverbank hill

ad 1) I would move NW instead of N, as the coast turns to the North just one more tile in the NW direction. By going NW first, we will hopefully reveal everything to the West. We should then be able to move Angus directly North, being able to watch both sides... Not a strong preference, though.

ad 5) I would let MercG reveal the last remaining tile two tiles North of him, then send him SE to chart the shrouded area SE of the fish, and eventually assign him to the Farmerville & Forkmouth area - there apparently is a barbarian camp South of that city, which we should get rid of. I do not think Legopolis needs any garrison urgently and if such a need emerges, Mercilles or our new Merc being built in Jackson may help - thanks to the road, Legopolis and Jackson are very close to each other.

quote: Originally posted by ZargonX I usually use the "finished turn" if I need a save file for some reason, such as taking screen shots, etc.

Just keep in mind that if you load the finished turn save, you get an extra round of production, which makes what you see ingame different from what is actually true.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 3) Gaul W, then E, NE, E, NE Not sure what you see - I only see a whale 2 squares west of the most SW tip of our landmass. That likely means ocean or sea beyond doesn't it - still doesn't hurt to check perhaps.

You were right, it was only a whale there...

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 6) Merciless to fortify in Jackson Hmm, might want to consider sending him to uncover those dark spots to the southeast.

Let's wait few turns until the new Merc in Jackson is built. We might have a situation in Jackson otherwise, if another barbarian comes from the Northern Mountains.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe By the way, tried to log into the Legoland irc chat room and it said that my address was denied permission... anyone have an idea what might have happened?

Fixed (most probably caused by the incident on the Superbowl Sunday).

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius The new table in nice The only thing I'd change about it is actually a simplification: I, personally, am curious only about the surplus food, the raw and eaten figures doesn't interest me.

This is perhaps a good idea. I will replace it with the number of city inhabitants. It's just eye candy, but... I will prepare an update version of the table and post it here:



EDIT: I did a number of changes... added population (eye candy), left out raw food, following the same logic left out the raw shield output & total commerce, added culture and some totals. Changed some formatting (got rid of the "formulaic" formatting, dropped yellowing for the ever-changing columns) . Do you like this layout better?

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius What I couldn't comprehend is what is the logic behing the yellow cells That eluded me completely.

It's simple. The yellow background indicates that the corresponding data changed compared to the previous turn. My intention is to stress the changes, so that you can quickly skim through the table, focusing on new developments only.

EDIT: I dropped the yellow backgrounds for the cells containing "ever-changing" figures, like the stored food, accumulated shields, turns to completion, and culture, as these change almost always... stressing the change every time makes thus little sense. If there is anything you should notice, you will notice it in another column anyway (like e.g. food deficit).

***

I will probably keep posting the F11 screen, even if I store just last few turns of that screenshot, as it is apparently checked quite often. OTOH, I will keep only the latest "sent" save. The F1 Screen should hopefully be completely replaced by the new summary table...

Just BTW, Imperial City dropped to pop 2 again. Voxes have just built a settler... no wonder/barracks building yet... They must have some sort of a culture improvement there, otherwise they would not be able to remain #1 on the city ladder... but it completely puzzles me why would someone build a temple so early in a chieftain game...

	31-01-2003 08:26									#308
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quote: Sharpe will be happy to know that we no longer need to research The Wheel! We've got it free of charge from Illuryians. The goody huts has been just sweet in this game... almost half of our research is actually sponsored by lesser tribes...

Nice! I am pleased that we got the Wheel - too bad we didn't get a more expensive tech ... of course, ANY tech is better than none from a hut hehe... Now about getting Iron Working

1) Angus NW
Sure, either N or NW is fine now that we can see land beyond either place - starting to wonder though whether this might just be a small peninsula though and not connected to the western landmass (if so then almost certainly a civ is on the western landmass)...

2) Settler+Mercred S
Yep

3) Gaul E
Agreed

4) Conan SW
Might want to consider going W instead, could uncover a couple of dark squares while SW will probably reveal nothing more - either way, we can resume moving along the coastline one turn later with both alternatives.

5) MercG N
Agreed, leave no black square there if possible.

6) Leopold to road the riverbank hill
Agreed ... what is the name of the other worker again?

	31-01-2003 09:02									#309
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It interesting to note that my name is Leopoldo. Purely by coincidence, the worker has a very similar name.

	31-01-2003 09:03									#310
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By the way, if I disagree with a move I will comment on it. So my silence signal my approval with the moves.

	31-01-2003 11:35									#311
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Vondrack didn't want to use Jack for the other worker, to avoid naming them with our names and now, here it comes a citizen called Leopoldo

lmtoops, we could change the worker's name it that bothers you, really.

quote: Originally posted by lmtoops By the way, if I disagree with a move I will comment on it. So my silence signal my approval with the moves.

Same goes for me. I almost always read them and if I disagree with something I'll post it.

quote: Do you like this layout better?

Radek, the new format now looks very good (even though I miss the total production and commerce, but I don't have a logical explanation for this ).

	31-01-2003 13:27									#312
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quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 1) Angus NW Sure, either N or NW is fine now that we can see land beyond either place - starting to wonder though whether this might just be a small peninsula though and not connected to the western landmass (if so then almost certainly a civ is on the western landmass)...

I pray it's just a mid-sized peninsula, actually separated from the western landmass... If we have no chokepoint to block and defend, formulating our military doctrine will be so much easier! We could do just with a strong navy and a fast/mobile response force, leaving the traditional defending force pretty small. Overseas invasions are logistically so demanding that we would be almost completely safe up until at least Galleons...

On an interesting note, chatting with Nimitz yesterday, he told me RPers believed GS and Voxes were probably on the same landmass (considering what GS indirectly indicated - GS and RPers talk, even if having no ingame contact). Knowing the GS starting location, I guess that there is quite a big landmass to the West of us, with GS in the Northern part and Voxes in the South... RPers also believe that GS is going/planning to rush Voxes...

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 4) Conan SW Might want to consider going W instead, could uncover a couple of dark squares while SW will probably reveal nothing more - either way, we can resume moving along the coastline one turn later with both alternatives.

Chatting with redstar yesterday, he proposed something I considered quite reasonable. He said having our two southern explorers meet on the coast would not be necessary... as we would have two of them at the same place eventually. So I thought about having Conan to follow the coast for two more turns (crossing the mouth of that river) and then turn northwards, loosely following the river there, exploring the desert area SSE of Farmerville (possibly taking care of the barb camp, which must be there somewhere). Gaul would uncover whatever remained still shrouded afterwards.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 6) Leopold to road the riverbank hill Agreed ... what is the name of the other worker again?

I thought about Jason, but nobody said he liked the name and Tibi didn't like it, so I am open for suggestions...

quote: Originally posted by lmtoops It interesting to note that my name is Leopoldo. Purely by coincidence, the worker has a very similar name.

Now this is really funny... I had no idea I chose a name so similar to yours... Leopold is a very unusual name here, actually very old-fashioned one (Austrian and German rulers used that name centuries ago). If you are not happy with that, we can change it... name the worker anything you like.

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Vondrack didn't want to use Jack for the other worker, to avoid naming them with our names and now, here it comes a citizen called Leopoldo

Yeah... I paid so much attention not to accidentally name the worker lmtoops and you see...

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Radek, the new format now looks very good (even though I miss the total production and commerce, but I don't have a logical explanation for this ).

Geeze... I just love this kind of people... for them, there is always something missing or something extra... I am going to design one more summary table today that would contain the rest of information from the F1, F3, and F11 screens (mainly research & finance reports, throwing in the important demographics data as well).

	31-01-2003 16:51									#313
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OK, another barely exciting turn played. See the Chronicle entry for the new piece of land uncovered by Angus... nothing special, but the land extends further to N/NW.

For the next turn:

1) Settler+Mercred S, then found Red Bricks
2) MercG S, then SE and S
3) Conan SW, then SW, then W, NW
4) Gaul NE
5) Angus N
6) Jason (?), after finishing the road near Jackson, to mine that tile

I can't even think of anything needing a comment this time...

	31-01-2003 19:42									#314
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack I can't even think of anything needing a comment this time...

I can

Are you sure that the city-screenshots posted in the last Chronicle update aren't old ?? Just take a look: you can see the barbarian camp near Jackson, Farmerville and Panama have only one pop, ...

I don't mind if you don't post the screenshots, but if they are already there, maybe they could be updated ?

Edit: I probably wouldn't have noticed it, if I hadn't got scared by the empty food storage of Panama, while they are still at pop 1 ...

	31-01-2003 22:48									#315
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I noticed (no Granary in Logopolis), but knew it was a mistake that would be corrected.

	31-01-2003 23:12									#316
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quote: [SIZE=1] For the next turn: 1) Settler+Mercred S, then found Red Bricks 2) MercG S, then SE and S 3) Conan SW, then SW, then W, NW 4) Gaul NE 5) Angus N 6) Jason (?), after finishing the road near Jackson, to mine that tile

1:
2: Yup, yup, yup.
3. All good
4:
5: Onward and upward!
6: How about "Jake" or "Jimbo?" Jimbo is a good construction worker name...

	31-01-2003 23:15									#317
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quote: Originally posted by lmtoops I noticed (no Granary in Logopolis), but knew it was a mistake that would be corrected.

Well, it would not have been corrected if Tibi didn't tell me...

Having nothing better to mess with, I've spent some more time today fine-tuning the summary table layout. This is probably the final version:



Changes:

1) put the city names and their time to grow together
2) put the city productions and their time to completion together
3) added city culture rating (culture per turn)
4) added current research project, it's progress and time to completion (fake figures used!)
5) added treasury value (the small number in the upper right corner of the left/top-most field with the turn number and date)
6) added net income (the small number in the upper right corner of the "Commerce" label field; fake number used!)

I did my best to put in all the data I assume we (would like to) check often. This table should replace two items currently being included in every Chronicle entry: the city summaries and the "Summary/End Turn" screenshot. I hope all the data from those are now included conveniently in one easy to review table. I eventually decided to include no detailed budget data from the F1 screen (except the treasury value and net income) and no data from the F11 screen.

The main reason is I would have to manually reenter most of these figures every turn... and as the primary reason for creating this table was to save myself from repetitive tasks like manually rewriting figures, I will better keep uploading the F11 screenshots for those that are interested in our rankings.

I would like to hear as many people as possible now, whether you like the table and find it easy to review and use. Any members proposing reasonable changes after I redo all the Chronicle entries from 4000BC (over the weekend, I think) will be executed!

I intend to keep the source XLS file containing all the tables available online, just in case someone feels like playing with all those numbers...

	01-02-2003 01:53									#318
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack Changes: 1) put the city names and their time to grow together

This I don't like, sorry. IMHO it would be more logical to have Pop (in mil), pop, growth, in this order.

quote: 2) put the city productions and their time to completion together

Yep, looking good.

quote: 3) added city culture rating (culture per turn)

Great!

quote: 4) added current research project, it's progress and time to completion (fake figures used!)

A bit strange because of the placement, but other than that good idea (maybe under the total pop? just an idea).

quote: 5) added treasury value (the small number in the upper right corner of the left/top-most field with the turn number and date) 6) added net income (the small number in the upper right corner of the "Commerce" label field; fake number used!)

How about one more row at the end of the report, with the following figures: total income, treasury value, net income (net gain), current reseach, and maybe other total/global figures.

quote: Any members proposing reasonable changes after I redo all the Chronicle entries from 4000BC (over the weekend, I think) will be executed!

Great work, Radek (I hope it will be easier for you, too, updating these tables).

	01-02-2003 16:03									#319
	Remove this text

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius This I don't like, sorry. IMHO it would be more logical to have Pop (in mil), pop, growth, in this order.

Hm, perhaps a matter of personal taste... what about putting the pop before the city name. It would then resemble how it is displayed ingame very closely (see below). I consider the time to the next pop growth the most important food-related city infomation, as the growth is the only thing that implies some kind of a change and that may require an action (re/assigning worked tiles, happiness adjustment etc.). Thus, I put this information as close to the city name as possible (it is more or less following the same pattern as the production column).

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius A bit strange because of the placement, but other than that good idea (maybe under the total pop? just an idea).

I thought the research project was kinda "production" of the empire as a whole... besides I wanted to put in the accumulated and target beaker count (might be interesting to watch) and that would not fit very well anywhere else. Anyway, I made a small adjustment, see below.

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius How about one more row at the end of the report, with the following figures: total income, treasury value, net income (net gain), current reseach, and maybe other total/global figures.

Well, I did my best to accomodate you, Tibi... What about the following layout (it includes even the most important F11 data):



Beware, lots of fake figures used... I just wanted to show the layout, I will correct the data later. There is now only one thing I am not satisfied with. The culture summary values... those do not fit there nicely...

Added budget slider settings (0.10.0, where treasury was in the previous version) and various F11 data (lower "green" part), moved the net income and treasury, adjusted research data. The 4/16 cities notation should denote we have 4 cities, while our current modified OCN is 16 (fake figure - will have to find the proper value somewhere).

OK, Tibi, your turn...

	01-02-2003 17:09									#320
	Inflate your Upload Space

I'm very flattered by the effort you make to please my taste

Anyway, put back the pop after the city name column, please! If your idea was to prove me that it can be worse that it was before, you succeded completely

Damn this attachment bug I'll send my proposal for total culture by email.

Btw, I also sent you the latest Lego simulator. Did you get it?

	01-02-2003 19:46									#321
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There is one thing regarding the next turn I would like to discuss... First, the "obvious" moves:

1) Angus NW, then N
2) Settler to found Red Bricks, Merced to fortify there
3) Gaul E, then, NE, NE
4) Conan SW, then W, NW
5) MercG SE, then S
6) Archer SE, attacking the barbarian

ad 1) the western coast of that new land is our primary interest, I believe, so I would stick to it as much as possible
ad 6) this is a bit more tricky, see below

Farmerville growth & defense
If we do nothing, Farmerville will grow to pop 3 one turn before finishing the worker. The Archer will not be enough to keep the whole population content there and we will have to (for one turn), use an entertainer. Plus, we now have 2 barbarians close to the city - a worker and the city, that would be two things to defend (unless we keep the worker in the city, of course). But we have only one military unit in there - that might put us into troubles...

Thus, here goes my proposal: let the Archer kill the barbarian SE of the city (Archer's chances are twice as better on the offense than on the defense anyway), temporarily using one of the Farmerville citizens as an entertainer (the one working the unimproved bonus grassland). This way, we will hopefully get rid of one of the barbarians, plus we will delay the growth of the city by one turn, actually making it stay at pop 2, as the new citizen will be immediately turned into the worker.

Should the other barbarian also approach the city, we will be able to engage and dispose of him, too, leaving Farmerville with an entertainer for another turn, without delaying its growth any further (we currently need 8 more surplus food to grow... 2+4+4 will be fine, but 2+2+4 will do, too - the Farmerville food surplus is 4 with no entertainers and 2 with one entertainer).

Do you consider this a good idea?

	01-02-2003 21:11									#322
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius I'm very flattered by the effort you make to please my taste

I just love it when people feel flattered (even very flattered) by my efforts...

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Anyway, put back the pop after the city name column, please! If your idea was to prove me that it can be worse that it was before, you succeded completely

Errr... no, I was serious, not trying to prove it could be even worse... I will still keep the time to grow together with the city name, but the rest has been rearranged to your taste, I hope.

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Damn this attachment bug I'll send my proposal for total culture by email.

That was a good idea! Incorporated. I did some more reformatting, mostly cosmetic changes though, and here comes yet another "final version" of my summary table. I admit I am now quite happy with everything. There is lots of data (actually, I believe there is almost everything - only the number of military units and thus the unit costs/upkeep is missing) and quite neatly formatted.

Any more changes/adjustments anyone? Tibi?



Note: again, lots of fake figures used.

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Btw, I also sent you the latest Lego simulator. Did you get it?

The last one I got from you was 2310BC.

	01-02-2003 23:53									#323
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quote: The last one I got from you was 2310BC.

Damn, my ISP again. I'll resend it.

Back to the statistics, the table is looking good now. I can live even with the strong green you use, but if you asked me, I'd prefer the light green I used in my email ; seriously, you could use the strong green for the "turn nr." cell, while a milder for the other headlines (btw, the "researching" cell could be green too, not the tech and the numbers, only the background for the word "researching": it is important, after all)

Edit: Maybe the cities' names with bold? Just an innocent idea, please don't execute me

I suppose who want to finds out even more info can download the save, so I say it's enough.

quote: Farmerville growth & defense ... Do you consider this a good idea?

Yes, the plan is looking good.

	02-02-2003 00:26									#324
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Back to the statistics, the table is looking good now. I can live even with the strong green you use, but if you asked me, I'd prefer the light green I used in my email ; seriously, you could use the strong green for the "turn nr." cell, while a milder for the other headlines (btw, the "researching" cell could be green too, not the tech and the numbers, only the background for the word "researching": it is important, after all) Edit: Maybe the cities' names with bold? Just an innocent idea, please don't execute me

Well... you can have the city names in boldface, no problem. I can even accomodate you with the Research label. The background is now painted with the headline color.

BUT YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR UGLY "MILDER" (AKA VENOMOUS) GREEN!
Just have a look what you ask me for :



It's just plain awful, especially combined with the other green. I am not going to commit such a color crime... Not me!



The very latest table draft again, with most of the changes proposed by Tibi...

	02-02-2003 00:42									#325
	Put an end to popups!

You're right, combined with the other green doesn't look good at all; but I still prefer the mild green for the whole table, and this is not a joke! It is of course a matter of taste, but I don't like strong colors. My green is more, khmm, elegant.

If this makes you happy, this is my last criticism for your table

Let's wait for other opinions, too. Anyway, this is now a very-very minor problem

	02-02-2003 01:24									#326
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quote: [SIZE=1] Farmerville growth & defense If we do nothing, Farmerville will grow to pop 3 one turn before finishing the worker. The Archer will not be enough to keep the whole population content there and we will have to (for one turn), use an entertainer. Plus, we now have 2 barbarians close to the city - a worker and the city, that would be two things to defend (unless we keep the worker in the city, of course). But we have only one military unit in there - that might put us into troubles...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did we not determine earlier that the game was set on something like Cheiftan, and that the cities would not go into disorder if ungarrisoned immediately upon reaching lvl. 3? I thought we had tested it out and found it to be true...

	02-02-2003 01:54									#327
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Zargon, it is because we rushed an archer and killed one pop. I don't know how long it will take for them to forget, but for now they are content because of the military police.

	02-02-2003 02:02									#328
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Farmerville defense looks good. While I actually don't think it's good short term, what with delayed growth, we need to clean out the barbs around there to make things safe for the worker.

	02-02-2003 02:26									#329
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Zargon, it is because we rushed an archer and killed one pop. I don't know how long it will take for them to forget, but for now they are content because of the military police.

Ooohhh.... riiiight.... the population slaughter... don't know how I forgot about that... must've misplaced the damning evidence somewhere... excuse me a moment...

(in the hallowed halls of Lego government, the sounds of documents being shredded...)

	02-02-2003 04:58									#330
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius You're right, combined with the other green doesn't look good at all; but I still prefer the mild green for the whole table, and this is not a joke! It is of course a matter of taste, but I don't like strong colors. My green is more, khmm, elegant. If this makes you happy, this is my last criticism for your table

Dammit... I just hate it when you are not completely happy, Tibi... It is not the saturation, it's the shade of your green I dislike so much... I thought I would do with the colours built-in into the Excel, but I can see now that the colour matters more than I thought... so I will throw in a bit of PhotoShop, too.

What about this?



And yes, Tibi is correct about the cause of our (un)happiness problem in Farmerville. AFAIK, the rush effect will wear off after 20 turns. Until then, we will need to keep the pop low or bring in more than one MP unit.