09-12-2002 06:01									#61
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever STYOM appreciate the answer....however that theory is false, too many times a hut right next to the city radius produces barbs.... and i always play with the grid on and i use MGE ....

You got me there, then... I have tested this too and never get barbs from a square adjacent to a city radius... but then, I'm playing 2.42 and SP (I gather most of your games are MP). My own tests produced the same lack of barbs, and same 3:1:1 ratio, as samson's.

Since this isn't a communication issue, I'll step back and let the man himself answer.

	09-12-2002 06:37									#62
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What determines the number of barbs created (1 v. 8)?

This is getting to be a long thread, so I hope I didn't miss an existing answer.

	09-12-2002 18:29									#63
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quote: Originally posted by War4ever ok....heres one..... if the safe zone as you say is 3 squares from the city....woudn't that mean a hut one square away from the radius would not produce barbs? yet i have had many barbs within this area?

You're not understanding the distinction between "squares away" and distance.

Distance is a concept used throughout Civ2 and figures in the calculation of bribery costs and caravan delivery payments among others.

In determining the distance between two points, tiles sharing an edge are a distance of 1; tiles touching at a corner are a distance of 1.5. There have been many posting in the strategy forum over the years talking about 'distance' and how to calculate it.

While most of the tiles adjacent to a city radius square are at a distance of 3, some are at a distance of 4 and thus are not in the barb-free zone. These squares are the ones which are 2 corners and an edge from the city square: 2 x 1.5 + 1 = 4. (As with all Civ2 math fractions are dropped, e.g. 4.5 = 4).

By the way, the notion of a city radius itself is defined by the concept of distance. A city radius is all squares at a distance of 2 or less from the city center. That's why the corners of the square are excluded, they are at a distance of 3.

	09-12-2002 21:39									#64
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Essentially using hexagons is more intuitive, but they didn't want civ to look boring, so you have to adapt your thinking when it comes to distance.

	11-12-2002 01:54									#65
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Samson,

I'm late to this party, but I just want to say how impressed I am with both your research and your presentation. Both are first-rate.

I don't recall any mention of this thread being linked to the Great Library. It certainly deserves to be. I'm going to "nominate" it in the Great Library discussion thread.

Great work!

	11-12-2002 02:07									#66
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quote: Originally posted by Boco What determines the number of barbs created (1 v. 8)? This is getting to be a long thread, so I hope I didn't miss an existing answer.

I don't know. I didn't finish testing barbarian results because there seemed to be a lot of info out there already on barbs. If no one replies here, I may look into it.

Campo - thanks much.

	11-12-2002 02:08									#67
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I dont think the GreatLibrary is being kept up anymore...

	11-12-2002 02:39									#68
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quote: Originally posted by Elephant I dont think the GreatLibrary is being kept up anymore...

Somebody must've discovered Electricity.

	11-12-2002 02:49									#69
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Sharp......very sharp.

	11-12-2002 08:46									#70
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ok thanks for explaining guys, sorry i am a bit daft sometimes....

as for games, i play sp sometimes these days, but most mp....though i played alot of sp in my day

	14-12-2002 20:48									#71
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In my latest game, I have a confirmation to your 8 city nomad rule. Shortly after my 8th city was founded, I got a second nomad on a continent where I had a nomad from a previous hut.

	14-12-2002 21:19									#72
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Solo,

Thanks.

By the way, I thought of a good way to exploit the STYOM corollary to the continent rule. Before founding your first city, locate a few huts on nomad-suitable terrain using any mercenary units you have acquired. Then found your first two cities using both original settlers and tip those huts immediately afterwards. Since you now have a city founded and no nomads, you can get nomads. And since the hut algorithm doesn't yet know you have cities on that continent, you have a 47% chance of nomads on that turn. Next turn it drops to 20%.

	15-12-2002 19:23									#73
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quote: Originally posted by samson Somebody must've discovered Electricity.

If someone has discovered Electricity, I bet it must be samson or a friend of his.
Therefore, samson must be held responsible for the GL not being kept up any longer

	15-12-2002 20:43									#74
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Samson,

Great tip, thanks!

I have actually done that in the past without knowing that the odds were much better in my favor, just figuring I got a little lucky. Now I'll be more prurposeful in trying to time this, but will probably be rewarded by a barb outcome, instead!

	15-12-2002 21:35									#75
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quote: Originally posted by samson By the way, I thought of a good way to exploit the STYOM corollary to the continent rule. Before founding your first city, locate a few huts on nomad-suitable terrain using any mercenary units you have acquired. Then found your first two cities using both original settlers and tip those huts immediately afterwards. Since you now have a city founded and no nomads, you can get nomads. And since the hut algorithm doesn't yet know you have cities on that continent, you have a 47% chance of nomads on that turn. Next turn it drops to 20%.

I wonder why the game doesn't recognize a city being built earlier the same turn for purposes of the continent rule... but does notice a city being built the same turn for purposes of the no-city rule. Because if you found a city and tip a hut the same turn, barbarians can appear.

I'm sure that means something, but I'm not sure what.

	15-12-2002 21:49									#76
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Yes, it's strange that the game knows you've built a city but not that it's on that continent until the next turn. Most likely this is a programming glitch rather than a design choice. In any case, it's exploitable.

	15-12-2002 21:51									#77
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quote: Originally posted by samson In any case, it's exploitable.

This should be your sig.

	18-01-2003 21:33									#78
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just a quick note...not to rain on the parade or anything, but it seems samson has left off a possible outcome...the "abandoned village"...the one i seem to get most often.

	18-01-2003 22:09									#79
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He was using deity/raging hordes as he says in his first post. Hence abandoned villages will not occur.

	19-01-2003 00:57									#80
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noddafinga,

In case you can't read betwen the lines, 'abandoned villages' only occur at the lower game levels, and lower barb levels...not at the highest, deity/raging hordes.

Monk

	19-01-2003 01:04									#81
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Wasn't that what I said?

	19-01-2003 01:31									#82
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Yes, DrSpike, that is what you said.

But, for someone who had never played deity/raging, that person might not 'get' the implication I pointed out. Just trying to help; not in any way disparaging you. Sorry, for the misunderstanding.

Monk

	19-01-2003 01:53									#83
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Hehe no misunderstanding........you were just clarifying.

Although, to clarify your clarification you can get abandoned villages at deity if you don't play raging hordes, so the barb level is the key. If I have misremembered someone can come along and clarify my clarification of your clarification.

	19-01-2003 03:53									#86
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i have played deity raging and received abondoned huts etc..it is rare but does happen, unless Rah is changing the barbs to restless on me? but i doubt that

	19-01-2003 04:01									#87
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I always thought it was impossible on deity/raging.......though I could be wrong. I've certainly never seen it myself that I can recall.

	19-01-2003 04:14									#88
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Have to agree with DrSpike. That doesn't mean you didn't see that, Warz; just that I think it must have been a glitch. I seem to remember a thread long ago detailing which (at what level,etc) settings stop yielding dusty, empty villages. Some other one may provide.

Monk

	19-01-2003 04:22									#89
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I've never seen an 'abandoned villages' in any raging hoard MP game.

	19-01-2003 05:34									#90
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well like i said, it could have been a differnet level, perhaps i am confusing my rah games with that crap arcade civ they play at the zone.....

but i am almost positive i have received empty villages on deity raging... the only reason i would remember this is i too was under the impression it was a king level weakness