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DinoDoc
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AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:24
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quote:
CARACAS, Venezuela (Reuters) -- Several hundred thousand foes of Venezuela's President Hugo Chavez marched through Caracas on Saturday to demand his resignation after the leftist leader rejected U.S. calls for early elections to end feuding over his rule of the world's No. 5 oil exporter.
Chanting, singing and blowing whistles, protesters streamed through the Venezuelan capital as they converged on wealthy eastern Caracas, where they massed on a major highway in a fluttering sea of flags.
The embattled populist president, facing a protracted opposition strike that has crippled the nation's vital oil industry and rattled markets, has repeatedly dismissed opposition demands he step down and call an immediate vote.
"We are marching for the freedom of Venezuela. The country has stopped and said enough. But he doesn't want to accept it, he doesn't want to accept reality," said Jolly Bermudez, an aerobics instructor, taking part in the march.
His opponents blame Chavez for pushing Venezuela into recession and political chaos with his autocratic style and left-wing reforms he says help the poor. They have threatened to keep up the strike until the president resigns.
The White House, stepping up international pressure on the former paratrooper, on Friday said early elections were the only viable solution to Venezuela's turmoil. The South American nation supplies about one-sixth of U.S. oil imports.
But Chavez, who was elected in 1998 and survived a coup in April, dismissed the U.S. call. He says the constitution only allows for a binding referendum on his mandate in August 2003. He accuses his foes of trying topple his government.
"There are no early elections planned here. ... I don't think that the United States government is suggesting to the world that Venezuela must break with its constitution just to satisfy the pretensions of coup mongers," he told CNN en Espanol, a sister network to CNN.com.
But a senior U.S. State Department official, visiting Caracas to meet with the government and opposition, underscored the White House position with a warning that Venezuela could slip deeper into turmoil without a swift solution.
"We need some kind of early elections. What they are, only the Venezuelans can decide," said Thomas Shannon, U.S. deputy assistant secretary for the Western Hemisphere. "If a political solution is not found, we could be on the edge of some kind of social confrontation," he told reporters Saturday.
Battle of wills over oil
Since April, when rebel officers briefly ousted Chavez in a chaotic uprising, international mediators have struggled to bring the two sides together to discuss an electoral solution.
Violent street clashes, frequent political rallies and a daily war of words between government and opposition have kept tensions running high in Venezuela more than eight months after the short-lived coup.
Responding to Chavez's comments, U.S. officials made clear Washington felt elections were necessary before the August referendum date. "It's not sufficient for the government to sit on institutional legitimacy when the country is at risk," said one official, who asked not to be identified.
After his landslide electoral victory on promises to ease poverty, the president's popularity has dropped sharply. But many poorer voters still see his policies as key to reversing the neglect and corruption of previous governments.
The opposition, an alliance of political parties, unions, civil groups and business leaders, accuse Chavez of autocratic rule. They blame his fiery rhetoric for fueling hatred between the social classes.
"Either the president resigns to facilitate a solution or we fix a date that can't be beyond the start of next year for presidential elections," said Alejandro Armas, an opposition negotiator in talks with the government chaired by Organization of American States Secretary General Cesar Gaviria.
The opposition strike, which began on December 2, has brought the oil industry to a standstill and sent Venezuelans rushing to stock up on food and gasoline.
The shutdown has worsened the nation's already bleak economic outlook. Battered by recession, the economy has contracted more than 6 percent so far this year.
But with striking oil tankers moored offshore and oil output at less than a third, the shutdown has become a battle of wills over the petroleum sector, which accounts for about half the government's revenues.
The president insists the shutdown has been a failure and blames dissident oil executives at the state oil firm PDVSA for trying to destabilize the nation. But strike leaders dismiss the president's claim he can restart the industry. |
I'm suprised that we haven't had any threads on the subject given the uproar the last time he was over thrown. Do you think that Chavez's rule will out last this latest uprising?
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Kontiki
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Canada
Aug 2001
time: 00:24
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Not to mention that the Latin American right has enough blood on its hands to last a few lifetimes.
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aahz_capone
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The Hague
Feb 2002
time: 06:24
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Damnit, when that three day military coup happened I was so happy I went out and got totally plastered! (I'm half Argentine so I have some stake in this matter.) Everybody was happy, even if it wasn't exactly demaocratic, even Bush said, "Hey, the a$$hole is finally out!" Then two days later the Bush administration thought "oh, sh!t, we can't support an undemocratic military coup, oops! put him back!" Bunch of inconsequential morons should get their policies straight.
Damnit, all of south america is in the dumps but Chile. Hopefully that new socialist guy in Brazil will start a trend of good leaders, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Giancarlo
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Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Seeker
Why can't Chavez just kidnap the senior oil people's kids, as hostages, and begin a bloody purge/'disappearance' of dissenters in the Army and media? |
Well he tried doing that with the rebellious army officers by sending them to jail, the ones who ran the coup but was unsuccessful as the courts went completely against him and had them released. If I recall properly.
Capone:
quote:
Everybody was happy, even if it wasn't exactly demaocratic, even Bush said, "Hey, the a$$hole is finally out!" Then two days later the Bush administration thought "oh, sh!t, we can't support an undemocratic military coup, oops! put him back!" Bunch of inconsequential morons should get their policies straight. |
The State Department's stance was never that way when the coup occured. How do I know? My dad works for the State Department. I was told by him the US never got involved in that and never supported it. Neither did they condemn the coup either.
quote:
Hopefully that new socialist guy in Brazil will start a trend of good leaders, but I'm not holding my breath. |
That new socialist guy in Brazil, Lula, doesn't know the first thing about what he has to do.
Fact is he has to struggle with an economy that has shrunked from being the 8th largest in the world to the 12th largest. Brazil's GDP has shedded $300 billion since 1998. In 1998, the GDP peaked at $800 Billion and this year they expect it to fall below $500 billion.
He better be conservative in his economic policies because if he is not Brazil will collapse completely.
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DinoDoc
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AECCP loves Democracy
Sep 1999
time: 23:24
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Obviously this is all a CIA opperation to destablize a widely popular... I can not even say it with a straight face. 
More info:
quote:
Venezuela strike protests intensify
CARACAS, Venezuela, Dec. 18 — The strike against President Hugo Chavez’s rule was strangling Venezuela’s critical oil industry as opposition demonstrators tried to paralyze the capital Wednesday by blocking roads for the second time this week.
THE STRIKE — which entered its 17th day — has reduced Venezuela’s oil output from nearly 3 million to 400,000 barrels per day, sending the world price of crude oil above $30 a barrel and depriving the country of $50 million daily in export income.
While the lifeblood of the nation’s economy slowed to a trickle, hundreds of the president’s opponents formed lines across major highways and other roads in Caracas, waving flags and blowing on whistles.
The strike has cut Venezuela’s oil exports to the United States — Venezuelan oil normally accounts for 10 percent of U.S. oil imports.
Chavez has sent soldiers to striking oil facilities to little effect. Venezuela’s 13-tanker shipping fleet lay at anchor, its crews having joined the strike. The strike also has caused gasoline shortages in Venezuela.
MARCH TO TOMB
On Tuesday, thousands of protesters marched toward the tomb of independence hero Simon Bolivar in downtown Caracas to mark the 172nd anniversary of the independence hero’s death.
Bolivar also is revered by Chavez and hundreds of the president’s supporters, many wearing red headbands and waving red flags symbolizing his leftist rule, awaited the opposition demonstrators at the tomb, ready to battle them in the streets as they have in recent days.
“We are defending Chavez,” said Heide Carolina Ruiz, an 18-year-old high school student.
Other women tried to hand out red roses to National Guard troops who stood in formation nearby, ready to keep the rival sides apart.
Amid fears that violence might erupt, march leaders decided to halt the demonstration a couple of blocks from the tomb. Then, 30 demonstrators were chosen to enter the building housing the bronze tomb through a side door and under police guard.
“We are going to keep fighting until our country is free again,” retired Marine Lt. Cmdr. Jose Angel Cano pronounced as he laid a red rose on the tomb.
One woman, clutching the Venezuelan flag, wept as the 30 demonstrators sang the national anthem.
“I am crying because I don’t understand the divisions we have among our people,” Meyling Suarez, an unemployed television producer, said afterward. “We are all Venezuelans, but we have been shooting at each other.”
As the 30 demonstrators were hustled out of the building by their police escort, the pro-Chavez demonstrators realized they were present and shouted insults at them. There was no violence.
U.S. BACKS OAS
The United States expressed strong support Tuesday for an Organization of American States resolution rejecting any attempt at subverting the democratic process in Venezuela. OAS Secretary General Cesar Gaviria is in Caracas mediating negotiations on possible elections.
Venezuela is teetering on the brink of another paroxysm of bloodshed, like the coup that ousted Chavez for two days last April.
As night fell, spontaneous pro- and anti-Chavez demonstrations broke out in Caracas, with National Guard troops and police keeping the antagonists apart.
The opposition — which accuses Chavez of polarizing Venezuelan society and subverting democratic rule — wants the elected president to resign or submit to a referendum on whether he should remain in office. But Venezuela’s constitution requires him to accept the results of a possible recall only halfway into his six-year term, or next August. Chavez has defied calls for elections in early 2003.
GASOLINE HALTED
The president was dealt a blow Tuesday when officials at the giant Hovensa refinery in the U.S. Virgin Island of St. Croix said no gasoline shipments were headed to Venezuela, which has a majority stake in the refinery.
“If the gasoline goes, there will be chaos,” Rafael Haddat, a 44-year-old agronomist, said at a filling station.
Two of Venezuela’s largest refineries, including one producing gasoline for Venezuela and the United States, already have shut down. Oil executives vowed to keep up the pressure.
"The overall sentiment among workers is: Strike until he leaves,” said Gonzalo Feijoo, an adviser for Venezuela’s state-owned oil monopoly, Petroleos de Venezuela, S.A., where top management is in open rebellion.
In the eastern state of Anzoategui, police stopped about 300 pro-Chavez workers heading to the Anaco natural gas plant to force it to open. |
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El León
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Wisconsin
Sep 2002
time: 23:24
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It is sad to see the state of conservatism today. They have become ultra-liberals and are probably not even aware.
What happened to humanism? Christianity?
Chavez will not fall. Fidel Castro will not fall. But you can keep feeding the beast.
The opposition "marched" in cars, created "strikes" from above, not from the consent of the workers. Meanwhile, three million people marched to show their support...
For Salvador Allende.
Surely, you must not know too much about Chile. The numbers may tell you wonderful things about the economy, but the truth is in the fact that a national pastime is going to the supermarket, filling your little cart with expensive thigns and then abandoning it... It is all a storefront.
And Pinochet is a murderer. But I guess, like Friedman says, sometimes you must cut the arm to save the person. Or in the D'Aubuisson version - If you allow us to kill 250,000 people, El Salvador will be well.
So go ahead, Fez, you can start shooting anytime...
But don't be shocked if people shoot back.
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Giancarlo
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Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:24
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quote:
Originally posted by El Leon
It is sad to see the state of conservatism today. They have become ultra-liberals and are probably not even aware.
What happened to humanism? Christianity? |
What happened to capitalism?
quote:
Chavez will not fall. Fidel Castro will not fall. But you can keep feeding the beast. |
Chavez will fall because he has pulled down the economy with intent.
quote:
The opposition "marched" in cars, created "strikes" from above, not from the consent of the workers. |
From what I hear they have complete consent from the workers. Infact the workers are striking with them.
quote:
Meanwhile, three million people marched to show their support... For Salvador Allende. |
Three million? Source. Also may I bring up a fact, Chile is much better off today than it was with that soviet pig dog.
quote:
Surely, you must not know too much about Chile. The numbers may tell you wonderful things about the economy, but the truth is in the fact that a national pastime is going to the supermarket, filling your little cart with expensive thigns and then abandoning it... It is all a storefront. |
Where did you get this from? I happened to visit Chile on several dozen occasions. And I don't see any of this.
quote:
And Pinochet is a murderer. But I guess, like Friedman says, sometimes you must cut the arm to save the person. Or in the D'Aubuisson version - If you allow us to kill 250,000 people, El Salvador will be well. |
You are pathetic and misstating my beliefs. If you really want something done, let my country run Latin America again.
quote:
So go ahead, Fez, you can start shooting anytime.. But don't be shocked if people shoot back. |
You have failed in providing me anything to work with.
Mind I ask, do you work for the PRI?
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18-12-2002 01:07
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