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El León
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Wisconsin
Sep 2002
time: 23:24
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Agree completely, AIFLD does not exist anymore, the AFL has moved to a more coherent stance (amnesty, finally! it took them a while!)
The new international wing of the AFL has a very different strcture (and function) than in those days  but...
I would not say that IBT is reformed in anyway, though, and that is true of most of the "brotherhoods," which except for the Teamsters are fortunately not as large. 
Which goes towards my point. Many spooks and old guarders are still hanging around. The day I feel reassured is when the AIFLD days are publicly condemned. Then, when incidents like that with the CTV happen, I will be more comfortable. BTW, CTV receives a lot of funds, if I am not mistaken - and these increased after Chávez threatened to mess with the oil prices.
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chegitz guevara
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Ft. Lauderdale, FL Communist Party of Apolyton
Jun 2000
time: 00:24
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El Leon, the Teamsters are very reformed. Now, given that the mob had total control from the time Hoffa Sr was shoved out to the time of the consent decree means that's a relative term. A lot of the old guard still has power in the union, and Hoffa Jr is a front man for them. But he's done some unexpectedly progressive things. As well, the reform movement within the Teamsters is still very powerful, and TDU was built by revolutionaries, some of whom I know well. If the government hadn't intervened, the old guard would probably be broken by now. Oh well, not every war can be won in day.
It doesn't surprise me that the union in Venezuela's getting funds from somewhere. I hope someone traces the money and can discredit the union before Venezuela takes too much damage. If it goes back to the CIA, I wonder if Venezeula could sue the US for damages.
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El León
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Wisconsin
Sep 2002
time: 23:24
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quote:
Originally posted by chegitz guevara
El Leon, the Teamsters are very reformed. Now, given that the mob had total control from the time Hoffa Sr was shoved out to the time of the consent decree means that's a relative term. A lot of the old guard still has power in the union, and Hoffa Jr is a front man for them. But he's done some unexpectedly progressive things. As well, the reform movement within the Teamsters is still very powerful, and TDU was built by revolutionaries, some of whom I know well. If the government hadn't intervened, the old guard would probably be broken by now. Oh well, not every war can be won in day.
It doesn't surprise me that the union in Venezuela's getting funds from somewhere. I hope someone traces the money and can discredit the union before Venezuela takes too much damage. If it goes back to the CIA, I wonder if Venezeula could sue the US for damages. |
Don't get me wrong, I would be the last person to bash the AFL and yes, if Hoffa jr. is behaving himself its because TDU is coming after him. Don't trust the guy at all... But most of the locals have renewed their leadership for the better. But we must keep on our toes for the old guard, and keep our eyes open... As in Venezuela, you probably can't trace it back directly to the CIA (and less so, in the new structure, the decision to fund), but someone has gotta give the AFL a hard time about this. Nowadays, I think they will listen. 
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Dr. Nick
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Mola mazo!
Oct 2000
time: 01:24
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quote:
let my country run Latin America again.
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Oh yes, wait, they've made such an example of efficiency and efficacy when the Presitge went down eh, great working government Spain has. 
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Where did you get this from? I happened to visit Chile on several dozen occasions. And I don't see any of this. |
In 1990, when Pinochet stepped down, Chile's economy was destroyed and they were as well off as Argentina is right now. Pinochet may have fixed during the 70s, but the Chilean economy is doing good ok thanks to measures taken in the 1990s and thanks to the stable price of copper.
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You are a DL, I never seen you around here before. DL alert. Whose is it this time? |
What a fool... 
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So that tells you I have seen Latin American politics at its best. And almost got shot in the process. |
Boohoo, cry us a river. It's also a pity they missed.
Onto the actual point, the only reason to oust Chavez would be if the opposition is any better, but they're not. They're surely just as corrupt and interest oriented as Chavez is, so they may as well honour the constitution and have elections when they're supposed to take place. If anything, Chavez should ammend his cabinet or something. But the opposition is just as much a pile of shyte as Chavez is.
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Giancarlo
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Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:24
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quote:
Originally posted by El Awrence
Oh yes, wait, they've made such an example of efficiency and efficacy when the Presitge went down eh, great working government Spain has. |
You should push the complaint on two other governments that were causing logistical problems. First off the flagship country of the ship was causing problems and so was Portugal. Spain couldn't just go out there and salvage the vessel. Additionally, the ship would of split in half anyways. As a leftist you also ignore the fact that if the ship was raised it could of caused a even more hazardous spill. Also should I bring up some famous oil spills recognizing the stupidity of the Argentine federal government? 1998 I believe was the time of the spill on the river... the Argentine government didn't even act until it was far too late.
quote:
In 1990, when Pinochet stepped down, Chile's economy was destroyed and they were as well off as Argentina is right now. Pinochet may have fixed during the 70s, but the Chilean economy is doing good ok thanks to measures taken in the 1990s and thanks to the stable price of copper. |
The Chilean economy doing superbly today is in part of reforms established in the early 80s. You are correct partily. Chile's economy was destroyed in 1973. Why don't you follow the same path Chile did with reforms? From the mid 1980s to 1999, GDP growth averaged +8 - +10%. With a brief recession in 2000 I believe, growth returned in 2001. Chile has always been the model I cite for other economies in the doldrums.
You know I actually think you are a smart guy despite having political beliefs a little bit different than mine... you just hate me because of things I said to you in the past. I could say I am sorry, but that would certainly not be enough for some of the awful things I have said. Please forgive me.
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Giancarlo
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Los Angeles
Apr 2000
time: 02:24
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quote:
Originally posted by El Awrence
Ahem. Did I even suggest raising the ship? Or trying to salvage it? No. But the Spanish government didn't even show up at the disaster area for like 2 weeks at least after it had happened. They didn't even have trained specialists working in the coasts that were hit. They didn't do ANYTHING. For crying out loud, they had to be bailed out by FRANCE. |
For crying out loud, several other countries caused logistical problems. And for crying out loud, my country was the first to deploy its navy. Within days, not two weeks.
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Because, to begin with, I can do nothing. Secondly, Argentina does not have a massive mining industry and minerals are not barricaded against in the US and the EU, which I can't say the same for agricultural goods. |
That is a problem. And come you little rebel, go do something.
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And what I did say is that Chile's economy was destroyed in 1990. Nineteen-ninety in case you're reading numbers wrong. That's just when Pinocheat was ready to hand power over to Aylwin AFAIK. And poverty, screwed up balances and the like were an important problem. |
Chile's economy was not destroyed in 1990. GDP growth was about 5% then. The thing about Chile is the public debt is very low, unlike Argentina (which exceeds $125 billion US).
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OneFootInTheGrave
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Kuzelj
Nov 2000
time: 05:24
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To get beck to the Venezuelan topic
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14809
quote:
U.S. Intervening Against Democracy in Venezuela
By Mark Weisbrot, AlterNet
December 18, 2002
CARACAS – "Where are they getting their money?" asks historian Samuel Moncada, as the television displays one opposition commercial after another. Moncada is chair of the history department at Central University of Venezuela in Caracas. We are sitting in one of the few restaurants that is open in the eastern, wealthier part of Caracas.
For two weeks during this country's business-led strike, the privately owned stations that dominate Venezuelan television have been running opposition "infomercials" instead of advertisements, in addition to what is often non-stop coverage of opposition protests.
"I am sure there is money from abroad," asserts Moncada. It's a good guess: Prior to the coup on April 11, the U.S. National Endowment for Democracy stepped up its funding to opposition groups, including money funneled through the International Republican Institute. The latter's funding multiplied more than sixfold, to $340,000 in 2001.
But if history is any guide, overt funding from Washington will turn out to be the tip of the iceberg. This was the case in Haiti, Nicaragua, Chile and other countries where Washington has sought "regime change" because our leaders didn't agree with the voters' choice at the polls. (In fact, Washington is currently aiding efforts to oust President Aristide in Haiti – for the second time). In these episodes, which extended into the 1990s, our government concealed amounts up to the hundreds of millions of dollars that paid for such things as death squads, strikes, economic destabilization, electoral campaigns and media.
All this remains to be investigated in this case. But the intentions of the U.S. government are clear. Last week the State Department ordered non-essential embassy personnel to leave the country, and warned American citizens not to travel here. But there have not been attacks on American citizens or companies here, from either side of the political divide, and this is not a particularly dangerous place for Americans to be.
In this situation, the State Department's extreme measures and warning can only be interpreted as a threat. The Bush Administration has also openly sided with the opposition, demanding early elections here. Then this week Washington changed its position to demanding a referendum on Chavez's presidency, most likely figuring that a divided opposition could easily lose to Chavez in an election, despite its overwhelming advantage in controlling the major means of communication.
The discussion in the U.S. press, dominated by Washington's views, has also taken on an Orwellian tone. Chavez is accused of using "dictatorial powers" for sending the military to recover oil tankers seized by striking captains. White House spokesman Ari Fleischer urged the Venezuelan government "to respect individual rights and fundamental freedoms."
But what would happen to people who hijacked an oil tanker from Exxon-Mobil in the United States? They would be facing a trial and a long prison sentence. Military officers who stood outside the White House and called for the overthrow of the government (and this just six months after a military coup supported by a foreign power) would end up in Guantanamo facing a secret military tribunal for terrorism.
In fact, the U.S. press would be much more fair if it held the Venezuelan government to the standards of the United States. In the U.S., government workers do not have the right to strike at all, as Ronald Reagan demonstrated when he summarily fired 12,000 air traffic controllers in 1981. But even this analogy is incomplete: The air traffic controllers were striking for better working conditions. Here, the employees of the state-owned oil company – mostly managers and executives – are trying to cripple the economy, which is heavily dependent on oil exports, in order to overthrow the government. In the United States, even private sector workers do not have the legal right to strike for political demands, and certainly not for the president's resignation.
In the United States, courts would issue injunctions against the strike, the treasuries of participating unions would be seized, and leaders would be arrested.
Meanwhile, outside of the wealthier areas of eastern Caracas, businesses are open and streets are crowded with shoppers. Life appears normal. This is clearly a national strike of the privileged, and most of the country has not joined it.
More than anything right now, this country needs dialogue and a ratcheting down of the tensions and hostilities between the two opposing camps, so as to avoid a civil war. But this dialogue will never happen if the United States continues to pursue a course of increasing confrontation.
Mark Weisbrot is co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, in Washington D.C.
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19-12-2002 23:01
I trust the CIA more. 
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