05-02-2003 00:28									#121
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Hello,

Historical inaccuracies abound in CIV, yet are totally unimportant and, really, shouldn't cause transglobal warfare among fans of the game.

Edit city names--make up new ones, or make them culturally accurate.

The AI's civs: I care not what the names are. They are not the real nations/cultures, and the names are just handles Firaxis gave so I don't need to remember one civ as the Militaristic-Religious One With A High Level of Aggression, and another as Whatever.

I don't play CIV when I want to be serious. I play for the fun in it.

Unsettling thread, this one was, but a bit interesting to read on a cold morning.

	05-02-2003 12:38									#122
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quote: Originally posted by PLATO1003 Pioneer, Your view of Americans is stereotypical and very ill informed. Becoming the major economic, cultural, and military power in the world does not happen with a population full of ignorant people. Ignorance abounds throughout the world in many different forms. It is true that The US has a wide range of peoples...some ARE ignorant, but never doubt that the majority know what we are about and how to make it happen.

Did you read my post through? I pretty much came to the same coclusion as you did. You have to admit though that a huge percentage of the high school kids in the States do not really know or care to know where is what and what is happening out there! Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

So long...

PS: There are more reasons than smart people for the wealth, prosperity and world dominationof the US has now or other empires in years past.

	05-02-2003 15:36									#123
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I agree with Anaton on this point, too. We shouldn't feel upset about this whole thing. I mean, if given the option, couldn't the ENglish build "New York"? And the French could build New Orleans. It doesn't bother me at all.

	07-02-2003 00:21									#124
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Just ignore this post. I made a mistake. Terribly sorry about this!

Last edited by Phobos on 07-02-2003 at 00:56

	07-02-2003 03:04									#125
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I was just wondering how many people are interested in continuing this conversation in an off-topic thread. I declined from answering to the posts above because of Ming's threats of banning me and perhaps others.

Since i do not want to get myself or others banned, i propose that the conversation continues off-topic.

Requirment: At least four people must post here or pm me, or whatever.

I will then open a new off-topic thread for the discussion to be continued anew.


All on-topic arguments have been told anyway.

	07-02-2003 10:41									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Azeem There are some seriously stupid Americans. But on the other hand, you'll find some people (unfortunately, we're not too much of a majority) that do know what is going on and a significant amount of history and prespectives.

Sad thing is the smart ones don't hold public office.

	07-02-2003 10:45									#127
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quote: Originally posted by The Pioneer Did you read my post through? I pretty much came to the same coclusion as you did. You have to admit though that a huge percentage of the high school kids in the States do not really know or care to know where is what and what is happening out there! Which is not necessarily a bad thing.

I think the important word here is "care". Being a superpower makes you complacent, so much wealth gives no reason to see what's up outside your borders. Thats what I think. I've lived for some time in the US and found it amazing how little time is given to world events in the local news.

	07-02-2003 12:27									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Palaiologos Since i do not want to get myself or others banned, i propose that the conversation continues off-topic. I will then open a new off-topic thread for the discussion to be continued anew.

Sure.... and when you do link us up from here

	07-02-2003 13:40									#129
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Spot on Master Zen! That's one of the reasons that people remain "unaaware" of the rest of the world.

So long...

PS: Palaiologos, I am afraid that if you move the discussion to the OT Forum it will turn into a hate/spam thread but you can try it. Post the link on this thread.

Last edited by The Pioneer on 07-02-2003 at 13:49

	07-02-2003 17:29									#130
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hate/spam thread? Perhaps....


If two more people post their interest in continuing the discussion, i will open the thread.

P.S what is spam?

	11-02-2003 22:14									#131
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Multinational cultures simply do not last?

Why hasn't Switzerland split years ago? And Belgium? Italy hasn't looked likely to return to it's city states recently. And for Quebec is still part of Canada.
If people want to live togeter with other cultures, then they can. Earlier in this thread it was quoted that more then one in ten Greeks were of different ethnic groups. It may not be a situation without tension, but I suspect that those 'immigrants' will settle into Greek society over time.

	11-02-2003 23:40									#132
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As an American, I have to say that it is obvious to any who care to look that Firaxis, an American company, is utterly biased in the city lists it provided.

There are, after all, far too many Californian cites in the American list!

	12-02-2003 00:27									#133
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Palaiologos- This has been one of the more interesting threads. I would welcome you opening an OT thread.

makka: Don't forget the US is made up of people from many different cultures. I don't know if you would call it multi-cultural though...the US culture prevades. (Perhaps multi-ethnic??) We don't seem to have the problems many other cultures have. Maybe Master Zen is correct, we just don't care if it doesn't effect us.

Perhaps the worry that most have is that their culture is not strong enough to withstand outside influences. Or maybe they just do not want their culture to change and adapt. US culture is certainly not the same that it was even 20 years ago. Influx of new ideas and the willingness to accept them is the key.

Now I had better stop before I get banned! See ya in the OT Forum!!!

	12-02-2003 00:30									#134
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Mad Monk: Absolutely!

	12-02-2003 01:16									#135
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BTW, if it were so biased, why did the Aztecs get the most Great Leaders?? Even I don't know who some of those guys were.

	12-02-2003 01:22									#136
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a not so seriously meant post:

the turks are the greatest civ of all time, for they gave us:
- kebaps: the best tasting fast food
- coffee: the fuel of modern society (enough replaces 2 hours of sleep )


but back on topic:
imo the same city SHOULD appear several times. because in the game were're speaking of 6050 years of history. only because civilization A founded a city, doesn't mean that one or more other civs can't use that geographical spot for writing history.

best example is jerusalem: it's a capital for jews, christians and muslims (and a lot of sects). and you can't say it "belongs" to just 1 religion... same for civilisations

	12-02-2003 07:25									#137
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What americans can say? They just lost two towers and they are crying months and months... What about if New York turned in New Mecca?

	12-02-2003 15:30									#138
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf a not so seriously meant post: the turks are the greatest civ of all time, for they gave us: - kebaps: the best tasting fast food - coffee: the fuel of modern society (enough replaces 2 hours of sleep )

Coffee??????

Ok your post is funny and all but I'm a bit worried that you don't know where coffee really came from.

( hint ----> south America)

	12-02-2003 18:15									#139
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quote: Originally posted by Anaton Coffee?????? Ok your post is funny and all but I'm a bit worried that you don't know where coffee really came from. ( hint ----> south America)

yep, the bean comes from south america.
but the ottomans brought it to europe (and indirectly to north america).

it's a famous story (myth?) that when the turks where driven out of vienna, they left some big sacks with strange looking beans inside. noone new what it was good for, for it tasted like shït. finally they asked a prisoner, what this strange thing is. he showed the the art of brewing coffee.... and the rest of the story we can imagine

however, i don't know how the turks got the beans in the first place...

	12-02-2003 19:07									#140
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Contrary to the popular impression, coffe is not a new world plant.

It actually originated from a region called "Kaffa" in Ethiopia, Africa, from the inhabitants of where the Arab merchants of Yemen took the plant and used it as a hot beverage, centuries before the journey of Columbus. It was in the Ottoman Empire that the Turks developed the particular method of brewing coffee, in an evolution from its Arab discoverers, as what is today known as Turkish coffe.

Europeans knew the existence of coffee in the muslim world, but there wasnt a "popular culture of coffee" until around the time of Turkish defeat before the walls of Vienna, as sabrewolf correctly refers. Europeans grasped the full commercial value of coffee only in the 18th century, when they realised that actually the climate of South America is particularly good for coffee growing, so they actually brought the plant to plantations in South America, and so we have Nescafe.

I'm not sure about cocoa though. Actually it might be cocoa instead of coffee that originated from S. America

	12-02-2003 19:30									#141
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wow, thank's for that detailed explanaition

btw: interesting to see a turkish flag on someone who lives in greece sure you won't get lynched by some guys around here?

	12-02-2003 19:39									#142
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quote: Originally posted by sabrewolf btw: interesting to see a turkish flag on someone who lives in greece sure you won't get lynched by some guys around here?

Oh no, actually I quite like the place.

The fact is that Turks and Greeks get along so well, despite the stereotype to the contrary. At least, this has been my experience as well as any other Turkish guy that I know to have met Greeks

	12-02-2003 21:21									#143
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quote: I'm not sure about cocoa though. Actually it might be cocoa instead of coffee that originated from S. America

Ancryean, if you're wondering, cacao (the bean used for chocolate) originated from Mexico and Central America. The cacao was used by the Aztecs for a beverage known as "Chocolatl", which we now know as "Chocolate" .

	12-02-2003 21:58									#144
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Thanks Azeem, I didnt know about the Aztec connection which makes me think, given the essentiality of chocolate, I guess they should at least name one of the Aztec cities in Civ3 "Chocolatl"

	12-02-2003 22:48									#145
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I duble checked about coffee in my britannica.

I admit that I have been wrong about the origins of coffee


my apologies

	13-02-2003 00:37									#146
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I have opened a new off-topic thread named "Salonika"(too bored to post a direct link).



I publicly accuse Ancyrean of being a DL(of a non-turk propably). MOST turks that i have met in this Forum are Settlers with a max of three posts. Their only posts are those argueing with me in various threads. No one has ever posted in a "purely" game thread.

If Ancyrean is really from Thessaloniki he can PM me his exact address as i too am from Thessaloniki. Do not worry i will come to your house and burn it or leave threatening notes. I just want to verify if you truly are who you say you are.


I strongly doubt it, however.

	13-02-2003 01:43									#147
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quote: I have opened a new off-topic thread named "Salonika"(too bored to post a direct link).

Here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthre...488#post1721253


Pozdrav iz Hrvatske Cvetin

If you have time (and nerve ) to discuss Macedonian issues and Greek 'ideas' about Macedonia, you should visit Off Topic forum.

There are many Greeks on this forum, so you can imagine these discussions spring up quite regularly. Your contribution would be welcome (by me at least ).

	13-02-2003 02:12									#148
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Hmmm...

I am the only Greek as far as i know.



It is alright you discuss "Macedonian" issues as long you do not do it in some obsure slavic language.


thanks for posting the link.

	13-02-2003 03:03									#149
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quote: Originally posted by Azeem Ancryean, if you're wondering, cacao (the bean used for chocolate) originated from Mexico and Central America. The cacao was used by the Aztecs for a beverage known as "Chocolatl", which we now know as "Chocolate" .

Also, it was flavored with vanilla, a native orchid.

I've put all three (vanilla, cocoa, and coffee) as luxury resources in a mod I'm working on.

	13-02-2003 04:07									#150
	Re: New off-Topic thread Inflate your Upload Space

quote: Originally posted by Palaiologos I publicly accuse Ancyrean of being a DL(of a non-turk propably).

To give you a clue, this morning it snowed slightly in town and people I know were complaining it got this cold...Not as bad as last year though, it snowed so unusually heavy last year, Thes/niki was all in white for a couple of days, they told me it was for the first time it snowed like this in quite some years Also a small detail, also this morning I saw passing by the Exhibition area, one of the Greek flags at the enterance of the area broke free from its mast in one corner because of heavy wind I guess, unless they are quick to fix it, it can fly free in the next strong wind. I think this can make up for my adress...I apologise for taking up space here with this but I guess I'm still within the confines of the title of this thread

quote: MOST turks that i have met in this Forum are Settlers with a max of three posts.

This much is true, I still have a few postings as of now