03-02-2003 02:54									#91
	READNOW! (feb02) Enter the AD-FREE zone

i need to know what city #3's final location is. coastal over the river on the center silk or elsewhere

	03-02-2003 03:17									#92
	Re: READNOW! (feb02) Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by LzPrst i need to know what city #3's final location is. coastal over the river on the center silk or elsewhere

It will be build on the silk on the "3?" spot.

--Togas

	03-02-2003 03:21									#93
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I'm assuming there arent any other cities in\on the jungle. btw, does anyone know how to use photoshop?
HELP!!!

	03-02-2003 03:29									#94
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For now, just use the most recent map by Arnelos. Use site 3? and 1? and focus mostly on the defenses of Cow Valley.

I don't have photoshop, just the lame windows paint program, so I often leave such tasks to Arnelos and E_T to handle. However, in the windows paint program I can at least draw lines and make crude squares to denote where cities are. Keep it as simple and clear as you can.

--Togas

	03-02-2003 16:19									#95
	Got spare money?

I realized that my plan was somewhat...ambitious, on the border of unrealistic actually, (ooc i'm sure thats what the emperor of china thought some centuries ago... ooc) so I'll draw up another more practical set of fortifications.

OOC I dont think I have photoshop here so it might have to be done in paint... also I have no way of uploading it (though I might get one, meanwhilst if anyone could receive the finished product and put it up that would be sweet) OOC

	04-02-2003 12:00									#96
	One more City Plan Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I've decided to see what kind of plan would come up, it the cities were packed a bit closer together. Here is the map:



Some of the cities are still the same distance as before, but I packed a few more cities into the interior and in the jungle area. THere is a fair amount of overlap, but it will allow us to have some fairly decent sized cities while keeping our trade values up.

Pros: More Cities, More Trade, better unit bandwidth, more WF assignment variety

Cons: Size limit problems with some of the cities when approching size 12 and even passing it. WF assignment limitations, especially at the larger sizes with some cities not able to grow that well, at least until we get Railroads.

[EDIT]
On the spot that is marked with the T, I was thinking about building a temporary city, so that we could have faster access to the Iron. this will be abandoned when the next closest city is able to get a temple up and the boarders expand.
[/EDIT]

Letus Eta Tamali

Last edited by E_T on 04-02-2003 at 12:06

	04-02-2003 16:41									#97
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This is one of the better suggestions E_T.
The cons will be overshadowed by the pros.
We shouldn't worry about this moderate tile-overlapping.

'Perfect' large, cities does not neccessary mean victory.
Great production (and trade) capabilities in many cities will
gives more advantages.

Last edited by ThePlagueRat on 04-02-2003 at 19:29

	04-02-2003 19:02									#98
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Just keep #18 away from my flood plains

	04-02-2003 21:53									#99
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quote: Originally posted by ruby_maser Just keep #18 away from my flood plains

OOpsee!! the number 18 is a mistake!! there is no city there.....

I'll try to fix it and repost it, but I'll be fairly busy today.

E_T

	05-02-2003 00:33									#100
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

To get really powerful, we should compress some of the cities even more. Especially on the east coast and the west coast. (e.g. city #4 one tile N, and #5 two tiles NE = Room for one more in the south, and so on.)

Then we would not have the largest size potential, as in Arnelos
initial plans, but we could get more cities than anyone else, and that would mean Spanish superiority...

	05-02-2003 00:51									#101
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Wow... talk about overlap

E_T,

Generally I don't mind overlap, but this latest plans seems to take it a bit too far. Just my thoughts on the subject, though.

	10-02-2003 04:27									#102
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Togas has asked me to repost this into this thread:

	10-02-2003 05:18									#103
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Wow, this is great work, Arnelos, but shouldn't Castillia be a bit smaller and Catalonia a bit larger.
I propose to add the desert terrain with the surrounding hills that lie close to Navarro and Valencia to Catalonia.

Aidun Cian the Older

	10-02-2003 06:34									#104
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quote: Originally posted by Aidun Wow, this is great work, Arnelos, but shouldn't Castillia be a bit smaller and Catalonia a bit larger. I propose to add the desert terrain with the surrounding hills that lie close to Navarro and Valencia to Catalonia.

Ideally, Aragon would be larger... but a number of things were driven by the land we were given (different from RL Spain) and the various city names. Since I wanted to keep the major cities in their proper regions, even if this made the SIZE of the region out of proportion (such as with Castile), it meant that certain regions are larger and others are smaller than they are in RL.

The problem is that if you expand Catalonia, you don't have additional Catalonian cities that truly be considered to the size and importance of Toledo or Salamanca in Castile (which they would replace). Likewise for some of the other regions... the alternative of placing Toledo or Salamanca inside Catalonia or another region just seemed even more out-of-place to me than having the size of Castile be larger

	10-02-2003 06:46									#105
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You are right. When i'ts finished I'll try to draw a map on parchment, but therefore we need to have mapmaking first.

Aidun

	10-02-2003 16:19									#106
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Well, anyway the real Castille is larger than all the others regions. So the map is Ok for me

These damn muslims! They want Galicia for themselves! Reconquista!!!!!! ¡Por Santiago!

	26-02-2003 07:27									#107
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Here goes my humble proposal of cities layout based on the other suggestions:



Comments:

City 8 has more food to grow there than at NE, but increases overlapping. Anyway, at N there is only desert.

City 10 has been placed there to take advantage of the 2 food and 1 shield tile W NW.

City 12 could be SW.

	26-02-2003 07:40									#108
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And this is a possible set of names for the cities, inspired by the map of regions drawn by Arnelos

(City # - Name)

05 - Vigo
06 - León
07 - Salamanca
08 - Toledo
09 - Valencia
10 - Murcia
11 - Albacete
12 - Badajoz
13 - Lisboa
14 - Sevilla
15 - Cádiz
16 - Bilbao
17 - Santander

	24-03-2003 05:11									#109
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E_T

	06-04-2003 22:22									#110
	Inflate your Upload Space

Lately ND has been expanding towards our NE. If we want to grab some of that land for ourselves now it is the moment to found new cities there.

A map:


f0: Toledo

f1: the function of this city is to maintain the control over the jungle. This position avoids overlapping with the Trippolis ND city culture area, and being two tiles of Zaragoza allows dispatching defensive troops in one turn.
Note: if corruption is too high due a big number of cities then could be better not to build this one...

f2: the position of this city also avoids overlapping with the ND influence area. Once a temple it's build we gain access to the gold and wheat of that valley.

f3: this city is placed two tiles away of f2 to hide our troops movement from ND eyes. It's position gives an early warning of enemies approaching along the coast.

f4: this city should have a harbour and build the galleys for NE sea defense (or fast invasion of the eastern ND cities).

Last edited by Fibrizzo on 07-04-2003 at 00:28

	06-04-2003 22:32									#111
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Sorry Fabrizzo, the f2 site isn't near the lake and will need an aqueduct to grow.

I'm wondering if it is currently wise to settle that north area, because we risk to upset ND. They need lands to settle, because the north is mostly claimed by GoW. Doing so, maybe we will plunge ND into a war against us too quickly.

I would settle the Spices and Yvory sites first.

	06-04-2003 22:45									#112
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Well, I agree that the spices and the ivory are a top priority and that we have a lot of land to settle. But if we don't take positions in that valley soon all that land will fall under the Neu Devils control... if they place a city where Picahulu is currently standing then they would have a direct way to our capital, unless we have at least a city on f4 for absorbing the first attack.

Update: I've run a scenario and you are right, thanks for your observation.

Last edited by Fibrizzo on 07-04-2003 at 00:31

	06-04-2003 22:51									#113
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Hey, I have been ranting much about settling that area too. But listen...

I was kinda eager to cut them away from the vicinity near our capital, until the border agreement made between us and ND.
I can vaguely remeber it came to a non-settling area south of the mountain range and west of Trippolis. Is this agreement still valid?

	06-04-2003 22:56									#114
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Ahhh, if they try to settle there we got a horseman close by and can threaten them to leave or be killed, pointing to our old agreement.

And then we can settle there, as Fibrizzio says... if we want to go to war with them?

	06-04-2003 23:44									#115
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quote: Originally posted by Fibrizzo By the way, after the first expansion of f2 (with a temple) the lake would be in the working area of that city, and therefore it would allow growing to size 12 without an aqueduct, if I'm right.

You are not right. The city must be close near the fresh water. Otherwise, it needs an aqueduct.

	07-04-2003 00:25									#116
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Well. Let's go step by step:

- The jungle zone. Do we want/can settle there? It is pretty obvious that if we don't settle soon (and by soon I mean VERY soon) they are going to take that zone for themselves. So we must ask ourselves if we give that zone, enter in "friendly competition", or want to risk a war for it. My personal opinion is that we should engage in "Friendly competition" for that land, just like we did time ago with Zaragoza and Santiago.

- The dilemma about settling north or south. I think that we should settle both parts at the same time. Currently Zaragoza is in a very good position to pop a settler, that settler could go to f2 position.

- The plan itself: I also consider that f2 should be one tile west. Otherwise that seems fine. I would build the cities in the f2, f3, f1, f4 order. Which probably means that f1 would be first built by ND, but I don't care. And f4 is not a priority.

	07-04-2003 00:41									#117
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OliverFA,

Toledo is growing very fast. Why not to build first a settler instead a worker ? We could send very soon that settler at the f2 site ! Zaragoza is the second military factory. If it pops a settler, its productivity will go down dramatically. I'm against that NO !

	07-04-2003 00:49									#118
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I've revised the calculations. Toledo can pop a settler in aprox. 9 turns. Zaragoza would do it in 5 turns. But being Toledo closer to the definitive placement the city would be found more or less at the same turn. Whith that new information I change my mind and support the idea of Toledo building a settler and Zaragoza keeping the military production.

	07-04-2003 00:53									#119
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Oliver, the settling plan seems OK to me, in case that it is chosen to take that lands.

About the f2 city:
On one hand, our architects currently know how to build an aqueduct to bring fresh water of the lake to the city, and that position avoids overlapping with ND culture influence area too soon. We also gain that tile with wheat bonus. On the other hand, it is true that one tile west renders unnecessary to build an aqueduct and avoids overlapping of the working area between f2 and f3 cities.

In any case, I think that ND will settle near f2 spot very soon, so we have to decide if we build that city or not now.

	07-04-2003 01:03									#120
	Put an end to popups!

IMHO, settling cities to our south is far more important than anything north. Not just for the luxuries either - we need to secure the land to dissuade settlement by other teams (GoW, GS, Vox).