12-04-2003 02:24									#31
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Yes, they agreed to getting Feudalism at the date we offered. We can offer to send it to them sooner for an additional cost, or go through with the original agreement.

I don't think we agreed to send them Feudalism ASAP, the deal was with the 8-10 turn ETA.

quote: As for the ETA: between 8-10 turns, depending on the commerce percentage going to research- according to other sources, that is well before anyone else working on the tech finishes his work.

I don't see why we can't offer it to them sooner than originally negotiated. It would be in their best interests to get it sooner so they can beat GoW to Chivalry. The NDA would still be to the same turn, and we ask for a bit of extra compensation.

Otherwise we could just hold onto it till the original ETA and give it to them for the original price.

	12-04-2003 03:15									#32
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No... I would agree if these were AIs, but not now. They will know when others get it, ND is the biggest, and most analytic team. The moment we discover it, they can notice the research cost drop.

Further, it would be good to keep them as friends, it seems to me (but I could be completely mistaken here) that they do not particular like both GoW and RP. So, by friendly supporting them, not asking for 'unfair' advantages, we can keep growth of the other Bobians down.

I'm not sure how they interpret it, but we implicitely said that we were going to trade the tech to them the moment we could get it. If we now ask for more gold, only because we need to speed up research, it wouldn't be accepted as a fair deal to them, as they have nothing to do with it, and you can't really renegotiate already agreed upon deals.

So, what we could ask is for a better NDA, as most likely they won't mind, as they are supportive of our war with Vox (or at least they claim). More gold however is something else, I wouldn't like it if someone would ask for more gold simply because he was faster then anticipated.

DeepO

	12-04-2003 03:19									#33
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One idea could be to ask for the gold in front, so that we can send an accepted gift for Feudalism, but that would again be against what GoW tries to achieve (getting a 1 turn advantage on ND). So I think we should even mention that to them, they should never find out (and it is not somethign we didn't agreed upon)

DeepO

	12-04-2003 03:54									#34
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ND must be dead-frightened of the possibility that GoW would get Feudalism several turns before they do and start on Chivalry, and get their riders several turns before ND can upgrade to Ansars.
We can use that in our favor, if we haven't already committed to providing Feudalism as soon as we get it, but in 5 or so turns from now. A request of a 25 gold addition to the base price for faster delivery sounds fair to me.

	12-04-2003 03:55									#35
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Sorry, but I'm a bit confused now.
So,

-We deliver in 2 to 3 turns
-because of that we want a 15? turn NDA
-No mentioning of chivalry.
-Can I leave in the questions regarding BOB? (I'm just trying to get another piece of the puzzle here )

(perhaps make , longer NDA or some extra gold, hereby giving them the choice.
I would like their NDA to end a different turn to GOW's, maybe that could give us some info as to will have sold it to RP or LEGO...)

	12-04-2003 04:03									#36
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quote: Originally posted by alva I would like their NDA to end a different turn to GOW's, maybe that could give us some info as to will have sold it to RP or LEGO...

Good idea!

I dunno about the rest though... it is getting very late, and I can no longer trust myself with important decisions. I should really catch some sleep.

You guys are doing a wonderful job! I know I will respect any decision that you make.

We have appx. 6 hours and 15 minutes left to hold the save.

	12-04-2003 04:07									#37
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I wouldn't ask for more gold, but I would offer (not give) it to them the moment we discover it. In exchange, an NDA of 10 turns seems ok, as it is exactly what we ask GoW, there's a good chance that they will find out the requirements from RP or GoW.

Same price, same deal, with the only exception that secretly GoW has payed us in front, and thus gets the tech gifted, making it 1 turn earlier for them.

DeepO

	12-04-2003 04:09									#38
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BTW, that 1 turn difference could already be an indication as to who gives it to RP.

DeepO

	12-04-2003 04:49									#39
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How about asking the money upfront for the early delivery? I'm sure they can see why we would do this?
-
Hi Darekill,

Due to us going into our Golden Age, we will be able to get it sooner then expected, feudalism should be ours in two to three turns, however, we have a small favour to ask of you.
Would you mind sending the money upfront? I'm sure you can appreciate the reason of our asking you this and we feel this is a deal to both of us, you will get the tech sooner, we get the gold earlier .
Note that the NDA will be 10 turns from acquiring the tech, not us getting the gold.

How are things going at your end? Has Vox settled a city again, or have they withdrawn those?

Hope to hear from you soon,
Honorable greetings,
alva,
-
Something like this?

	12-04-2003 05:09									#40
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Alva, I don't think that would be fair to GoW, besides we don't really need the cash. Right now the balance is good between our deals with ND and GoW, let's not overdo it... we can't ask ND for gold last turn, so that they will have it in 2 turns as well. Let's just use the same thing as with Lego or RP, I already send those two teams the same deals as GoW, not telling them GoW is getting it 1 turn early. It's the easiest, and IMO fairest solution.

DeepO

	12-04-2003 05:32									#41
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no problem

quote: Hello Darekill, Since we have entered our Golden Age, we will be able to get feudalism sooner then expected, how is that for some good news. Feudalism will be delivered in two to three turns, as to the payment, we agree to the 200 gold (or if you prefer, a 12GPT). Note that this comes with a 10 turn NDA. Hope to hear from you soon, Honorable greetings, alva of Gathering Storm,

I'm actuallu curious to see, how much faith they have in us
If they choose to go for the GPT deal....
-
Message will be sent in 10 min.

	12-04-2003 05:38									#42
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Just add one small comment that the increase in NDA is simply because we want to keep the tech out of Vox's hands, but we would hope they understand this. Further, it's perfect

DeepO

	12-04-2003 05:45									#43
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:relieved:

Full version will go into the ND thread

	18-04-2003 02:15									#44
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Son of a filthy whore! (excuse the language of a soldier)

Unless I'm totally misreading the DIPLO log for ND, our feudalism deal fell through, at least in part to a chance in leadership over there. So no 200 gold coming in, at least not in the immediate future.

HOWEVER, if RP does attack ND, we might be able to do to them what they are doing to us with Vox: empower the enemy (ND) by hooking them up with feudalism when they need it most.

I think we ought to do our best to cultivate a good relationship with ND... they are kinda like "outsiders" in this game, whereas we have the "aloof" label. We're both a bit frozen out, it seems.

Common interest can lead to alliance.

-Arrian

	18-04-2003 02:17									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Arrian Son of a filthy whore! (excuse the language of a soldier) Unless I'm totally misreading the DIPLO log for ND, our feudalism deal fell through, at least in part to a chance in leadership over there. So no 200 gold coming in, at least not in the immediate future. HOWEVER, if RP does attack ND, we might be able to do to them what they are doing to us with Vox: empower the enemy (ND) by hooking them up with feudalism when they need it most. I think we ought to do our best to cultivate a good relationship with ND... they are kinda like "outsiders" in this game, whereas we have the "aloof" label. We're both a bit frozen out, it seems. Common interest can lead to alliance. -Arrian

Yes, who the hell knows whats going on with them. were they roleplaying or what?

very disappointing, hope they figure out what to do, RP and GoW are about to gang up on them would seem.

	18-04-2003 02:27									#46
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I read it as they will probably buy Fuedalism, just that they will do it later, when they have voted on the matter.
-

They are asking for some, and I'm inclined to tell them that GoW and RP are looking to expand, but if ND doesn't attack GoW, ND isn't going to anything.
GoW is basically waiting for ND to attack (see: the ruse) and therefore won't attack themselves.
This could all lead to a standstill that doesn't help us either.
On the other end, that would mean, they all are prepared to do more of there own research (waste), expand slower and build less infrastructure.
All those things aren't necesairly bad for us.

	18-04-2003 02:54									#47
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We definately need to give them an update on the situation, at least tell them that we feel that something is brewing on Bob, but that we haven't figured out what yet.

As said before, use it to give a little update on us, not more then to the others, and try to win their confidence. It seems they have stopped contact with RP, and probably GoW as well, we could fare well to keep in touch.

It does worry me about the gold, though, they have to know they need it to get to chivalry. Please ask if they have some way of getting to chivalry, and maybe if a trade between us on the tech would be possible? Don't tell them anything if we would be buying or selling chivalry, nor of any eta. Let's see what they tell us first.

DeepO

	18-04-2003 08:10									#48
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quote: Hello mav_son, First of all, let say, that I was sorry to hear the deal didn't go through (this turn), but that I am sure that Darekill acted with only the best of intentions and that he surely did this for the good of his own people. I have asked our tactical professor to make the voyage to your great nation again (which is a very risky business nowadays I might add), to learn [edit by Arrian: teach you, not learn you] you how to defend your people in a more effective way again. However, he has been instructed not to start his lessons until his payment has arrived safely to our account. I'm sure you can see the benefit of this trade for the both of our nations, so I really hope we can come to some kind of agreement this time. To answer your questions regarding our neighbourghs, I can tell you that we think that our war is not just fought by two nations only, and that what is happening at our border is just the opening scene of a much grander operation. Who is and who isn't involved is not yet perfectly clear, but the picture is sharpening each turn. We have no real and concrete proof of all of this, but let's say that we have good information on this through variety of channels. We do not know for sure that you too will be facing the threat of being put under siege, but it is certainly a possibility I'm afraid, and it surely wouldn't surprise us. That itself should be reason enough for both of our civilizations to come and work together as this might very well be the only way to repel these very threats. We ourselves are still confident that we can overcome our invasion, however, it is of course impossible to be completely certain. Wars never are, let me put it this way, if we can overcome the next few years (turns) with a reasonable result, things will look allot [a lot] better and we should be able to deal with this infection soon enough. We were taken by surprise and are now paying the price for it, one more reason, we hope we can make this trade as soon as possible. On another note, do you have any notion on whether you will go on with your research after feudalism and in what way? As I have said before, we really should work together in both of our nations interest and perhaps even survival, if perhaps, we both are the subject of a worldwide conspiracy. It is getting late here, my friend, the sun is setting behind the hill already and candles have been put on ration for everyone but the generals who have to put in double overtime. Yes, we must all contribute at this very crucial moment in history. If you were to have any additional questions or information, our runners have vowed to risk their lives to deliver it for the good of yours and our motherland. I have talked to many of their wives, and if there is one point that became clear, is that they were proud to be married with men that risk and even sacrificed their lives for the friendship between our nations and the safety of our peoples. I remember [heard] one woman say "It is a dificult world we are living in, how did this all happen and all so suddenly. This would never have happened if we had Demogypticans as our neighbourghs, at least one can depend on them, unlike those crowding our borders right now. We only pray our brothers and sisters will not have to face this too someday soon. Let us work together to prevent such a thing." It is with them in mind that I ask, nay plee, for us to come closer to try and find a solution to make sure this will not happen. Ohh, and again, please be not to[o] hard on your ambassador, we all have grown to like him very much, and it would sadden us dearly to see him removed from his duties. Perhaps as a personal favour to our ex-president Sir Ralph? I'm sure he would appreciate it very much. Until next time, greetings from a land in darkness, alva, ambassador of Gathering Storm,

Any comments before I send it?
Changes made after both Theseus and Sleepy's comments.

	18-04-2003 08:19									#49
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One more paragraph of friendship, please.

"It's a difficult world that we live in... we would like to build positive relationships where we can."

Something like that...

	18-04-2003 08:23									#50
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A few typos, some of this could be American English vs. British English. I'm sure I missed some also

quote: Hello mav_son, First of all, let say, that I was sorry to hear the deal didn't go through (this turn), but that I am sure that Darekill acted with only the best of intentions and that he surely did this for the good of his own people. I have asked our tactical professor to make the voyage to your great nation again (which is a very risky business nowadays I might add), to learn you how to defend your people in a more effective way again. However, he has been instructed not to start his lessons until his payment has arrived safely to our account. I'm sure you can see the benefit of this trade for the both of our nations, so I really hope, we can come to kind of agreement this time.

Doesn't quite make sense. Do you mean "some kind of agreement"? I'd kill the comma before 'we' also

quote: To answer your questions regarding our neighbours, I can tell you that we think that quote: Is the 'u' in 'neighours' "real English"? our war is not just fought by two nations only, and that what is happening at our border is just the opening scene of a much grander operation. Who is and who isn't involved is not yet perfectly clear, but the picture is sharpening each turn. We have no real and concrete proof of all of this, but let's say that we have good information on this throug variety of channels.

through

quote: We do not know for sure that you too will be facing the threat of beeing put under

being

quote: siege, but it is certainly a possibility I'm affraid, and it surely wouldn't surprise us.

afraid

quote: That itself should be reason enough for both of our civilisations to come and work

civilizations

quote: together as this might very well be the only way to repell these very threats.

repel

quote: We ourselves are still confident that we can overcome our invasion, however, it is of course impossible to be completely certain. Wars never are, let me put it this way, if we can overcome the next few years (turns) with a reasonable result, things will look alot better and we should be able to deal with this infection soon enough.

allot [Edit by Nathan: I think the intent was "a lot"]

quote: We were taken by surprise and are now paying the price for it, one more reason, we hope we can make this trade as soon as possible. On another note, do you have any notion on whether you will go on with your research after feudalism and in what way? As I have said before, we really should work together in both of our nations interest and perhaps even survival, if perhaps, we both are the subject of a worldwide conspiracy. It is getting late here, my friend, the sun is setting behind the hill already and candles have been put on ration for everyone but the generals who have to put in double overtime. Yes, we must all contribute at this very crucial moment in history. If you were to have any additional questions or information, our runners have vowed to risk their lives to deliver it for the good of yours and our motherland. Ohh, and again, please be not to hard on your ambassador, we all have grown to like him very much, and it would sadden us dearly to see him removed from his duties. Perhaps as a personal favour to our ex-president Sir Ralph? I'm sure he would appreciate it very much.

Should be "too hard" - Nathan

quote: Until next time, greetings from a land in darkness, alva, ambassador of Gathering Storm,

nicely said

	18-04-2003 09:24									#51
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Ok, made a couple of changes
Thanks btw

I ran neighbourgh through word and apparantly, that's how it's spelled.
To be honest I don't really give a t*ss if I'm speaking/writing english or american or australian or whatever. I try to take the english-english route but that's it
Feel free to use the edit button to remove typo's (or plain ignorance of thy beautifull language . Not that I don't appriciate the lesson ,
-
Isn't it abit over the top? I'm basically asking for an alliance here..
(maybe not a thing come to think about it.)

	18-04-2003 23:40									#52
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FYI
ND's forums are down since yesterday. Zayxus, a member of ND, has told me that he couldn't communicate with any of his teammates since their forums went down. He's come to the IRC server looking for members of GoW to discuss something.
I will let you know if anything interesting happens.

	19-04-2003 00:08									#53
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I added a couple more grammatical corrections.

I do think it would probably be better not to put ourselves so much in ND's camp among the Bobians quite yet. We still don't know what's going to happen over there.

Nathan

	19-04-2003 00:10									#54
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alva,

I made a few suggested changes in brackets [xyz] in the main text.

I don't mean to nitpick... I doubt ND will care, but I happend to read the note and figureed "why not do some proofreading?" I know it isn't your native language, so please don't take my editing personally.

-Arrian

	19-04-2003 00:11									#55
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Bah, crosspost with Nathan... and I put my suggestions in the first post... not the second one by Randolph. Oops. Sorry about that.

I see nothing wrong with trying to forge a friendship with ND. If they give us the cold shoulder, so be it. But it can't hurt us to try, and I like the idea of supporting the civ that is likely to be surrounded... I was envisioning (much later in the game) an alliance with ND vs. GoW & RP. We could invade RP while ND eals with GoW. In exchance for our help, we get to keep the RP lands...

Hey, a general can dream, can't he?

-Arrian

	19-04-2003 12:43									#56
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quote: don't mean to nitpick... I doubt ND will care, but I happend to read the note and figureed "why not do some proofreading?" I know it isn't your native language, so please don't take my editing personally.

That's basically why I post the messages here first

	20-04-2003 03:09									#57
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I don't really like to just change other people's work, but I'll do so in the future. I suppose it doesn't really matter but all else equal it certainly doesn't hurt anything.

	20-04-2003 03:40									#58
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Bah, there is one major difference: for a couple of us, English is not our native language. Here, it gets send to people who will understand, but it is so easy to miss nuances in the language that I can imagine every native speaker being welcome to change stuff he thinks is not really right.

There is a difference of course if you change the meaning of a post, in which case a comment would be nicer then an edit...

DeepO

	26-04-2003 22:05									#59
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Does anyone has the feeling ND is seriously stalling us? It has been over 2 weeks now, surely they can decide whether to accept our offer or not by this time...

This doesn't sound right I wonder what they're up to. I feel a major Bob invasion coming up, this game can become quite interesting fast.

DeepO

	26-04-2003 22:18									#60
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hmm, I know.
At soon as we can, we should be thinking 'bout getting chivalry.
-
Leaving a couple of seascouts close is a good idea too, me thinks.
-
On the other hand, I really don't think no one is going to backstab on BoB.
I'm sure there are all thinking the same thing, therefore no Bobian will go all out to come and get us.