07-01-2003 07:38									#1
	DIPLO: Neu Demogyptica - comments Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Titlle says it all



Diplo: Neu Demogyptica

	07-01-2003 21:17									#2
	Support Apolyton

1) only 1 "l" in alright.

2) I think we could be more specific about the options we're looking at (date of minimap, whether or not to "black it out," etc).

-Arrian

	07-01-2003 21:27									#3
	Tired of ads?

This was just a 'hey remember me' kind of note. It could speed things when we actually propose the deal.

IMHO we don't have too much time to loose, once VOX sees our border, we are basically selling the same thing, and diplomacy tends to be slower then game turns.
So I herby again urge all Diplo's to get the messege out!!

1. one of the mistakes I keep making..
(alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, alright, .... (not that paste/copying will help me remembering to wright it correctly,..)

	13-02-2003 22:47									#4
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

nearly lost this thread... it was down 3 pages. I guess our diplomatic relations with ND were going slowly.

Well, apart from mentioning here again that Sir Ralph is probably going to be our ambassador for ND, there is a bit of news: ND has started a web page http://cylusion.com/neudemogyptica/index.phtml on diplo deals. While it says nowhere that this list is exhaustive, it does provide a nice way of gathering intelligence.

One of the things that struck me was that Togas mentioned on their non-aggression deal that 'this is a great deal between the two most enlightened civs on our continent' Nice politics: they keep ND, Lego and us happy, while both Lux and GoW won't mind (and Vox knows better).

DeepO

	13-02-2003 23:49									#5
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Check out ND's department of foreign affairs thread! Trip has posted a screenshot. ND sure has a lot of units there.

The argument between Lux and ND is interesting. Maybe we could ask RP for some commentary?

	13-02-2003 23:56									#6
	Tired of ads?

Didn't Vox say Lux is their east??? Now suddenly they have a city north of ND?!

	14-02-2003 00:02									#7
	Increase Your PM Length

Great discussion we're able to follow here!

DeepO

	14-02-2003 00:36									#8
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Originally posted by alva Didn't Vox say Lux is their east??? Now suddenly they have a city north of ND?!

They must have confused east with west. This is the most (and IMHO, according to our current understanding of the world around us, only) logical explanation.

	14-02-2003 06:52									#9
	Remove this text

I liked their movie of the peace treaty, thought it was great

Though they might be revealing too much information, we shall see.

	14-02-2003 11:06									#10
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I think their website serves its purpose, in that it conveys the message that ND respect the treaties that they signs.
Now though, they'll have to make a flash movie for every treaty that they sign in order not to make it seem like other treaties are less important to them.

	14-02-2003 11:16									#11
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Shiber I think their website serves its purpose, in that it conveys the message that ND respect the treaties that they signs. Now though, they'll have to make a flash movie for every treaty that they sign in order not to make it seem like other treaties are less important to them.

Yeah, I know, I expect a nice movie about us when we meet them in the game.

I am looking forward to a declaration of war movie, that should be quite good.

	14-02-2003 17:37									#12
	Support Apolyton

Let's hope for them that they put at least half the effort they put in webmastering and flash scripting in their play...

	14-02-2003 23:37									#13
	Put an end to popups!

http://www.civ2-forum.gamigo.de/sho...p?threadid=8095
Another place of possible intelligence... I noticed this one too late. Last update was in 2170 BC, at which we see three governors, for three cities: Neu Theben, Anagramaskus, Dar-El-Killam.

If this is true, they had (at least) 3 cities in 2170 BC. Now, let's hope Borc updates the thread fast (I'm still reading it, by the way, maybe there is some more trivia in there.)

DeepO

	15-02-2003 19:23									#14
	Full PM-box? Change here!

For those who might have missed it, Lux and ND are at war. ND has updated their foreign office with a few pics... it seems they're in some good land as well. Horse close to Neu Demogyptica, founded on a river (hill?)

Dar-El-Killam has already built a temple. I'm saving the screenies, maybe we can puzzle together a map if they keep on posting little tid-bits

DeepO

	15-02-2003 19:54									#15
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

Good idea.

	15-02-2003 21:32									#16
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I wouldn't read too much into the war. RP's scout provoked Lux beyond reason, and Lux killed him. That creates a technical state of war, but it remains to be seen whether ND will be willing to risk a major early war over the incident.

	15-02-2003 21:34									#17
	Inflate your Upload Space

Duplicate

Last edited by nbarclay on 15-02-2003 at 21:40

	15-02-2003 21:39									#18
	Tired of ads?

Triplicate

	15-02-2003 23:08									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Nathan, I don't know... I guess ND indeed provoked Lux (from what little info we've got), but only after Lux started provoking ND. If Vox would have passed one of its 'scouts' right past EotS, there was simply no way any of our team was going to forget that. We would have started a war a long time ago.

As to the damage an early war can do: true, but if you see how close Lux built that city to Dar-El-kalim, and the amount of forces ND moved right next to Lux's city, it seems war is inevitable. Also, don't forget that because of Lux's liberty with the tech deals, they were able to save a lot of gold, which undoubtedly will get used. As Togas already said: the Vultures of War will certainly move in, and if neither of the two parties hire them, they will simply stay at the background, and pick either the loser or both of the other teams bone-clean.

I don't see any way out of this tension without at least one decent skirmish, simply because both parties think the other is in fault, and need to apologize.

I strongly recommend we don't put too much focus on it, like what happened in the thread linked above: the moment too many comments were coming from other teams that the ice had cracked, the flow of information stopped, as both Trip and Darekill realised others were more then interested in it. If we all keep quiet, there's a good chance that both teams don't realize that all other teams are wringing their hands to see them two fighting until they're behind too much.

DeepO

	26-02-2003 18:38									#20
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Latest message from ND (answer to our proposal to trade CoL)

quote: i am writing to you in the name of the people of Neu Demogyptica. As a democratic civilization which is eager to get to know the world, we would be pleased to get in contact with your people. To allow friendship to grow between our great civilizations, i would like to introduce the people of Neu Demogyptica to you. We are an expansionist and religious civilization under the leadership of Fritz Demogypt. We are democratic and peaceful, but we are also sovereign and do not accept any kind of extortion, nor do we fear to fight for our freedom and sovereignty. We respect our neighbours and seek friendship and peace, as long as they do not threaten our god-given right to develop our great culture. We are looking forward to meet the people of Gathering Storm in the world and we believe that both of our civilizations will benefit from good relations and friendship to each other, which will hopefully pass the test of time. To get in contact with your civilization as fast as possible, we wondered if you would like to share information of where we are in the world with us(east/west or north/south). Being an expansionist civilization, we would send a scout to you immediately, to allow us start trading technology and luxury as fast as possible!

quote: Now, this murderers can’t be found anywhere.

surprise…surprise…surprise….
Shall we let them in on our little secret

quote: or also terms in military aspects

Are they hinting if we are interested in some kind of alliance?

	26-03-2003 18:14									#21
	Support Apolyton

Where is ND getting Construction and Republic from? This Lego deal isn't looking very good at all.

	26-03-2003 18:26									#22
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

I guess construction from one of the team Lego already sold to. As for Republic- they might have some new source- perhaps someone is researching that tech. I thought of telling ND we'll have Rep before anyone else, so they might change their minds. But we'll have to tell this to Lego- and make some correction into our agreement. (If ND really won't buy Republic from us).

	26-03-2003 20:07									#23
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Is it possible that ND are working on blackmailing Vox to sell them Construction and Republic (which Vox will be getting from us!) for dirt-cheap prices in return for being allowed to stay on Bob? Is this why they refused to even negotiate a price?
Perhaps we should make ND a special offer for The Republic. Think they'll take if from us if we offer it for 120 gold?

	26-03-2003 20:25									#24
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Vox can't trade techs that originate from us can they?

	26-03-2003 23:49									#25
	Remove this text

Aeson: yes Vox can resell techs, as we can resell theirs. One of the reasons I don't particularly like the last deal

As to the Lego deal sounding less good: true, but keep one thing in mind (and this means we can't go back): they would have gotten republic a few turns after us, if we hadn't persuaded them to split research. We need their cooperation, if only to keep it from strengthening the others.

Also, I'll mention the currency - ND situation next msg to Lego, but I propose we do not change the original deal, only to make the 'favour' they are doing us smaller. I think Lego will make it possible for us to get some balance in our research, and if we can play them well, we could use this advantage to take on Bob. I would hate it if Lego would e.g. bond closer to GoW or RP, because it would make it much harder for us to take them.

DeepO

	27-03-2003 02:22									#26
	Support Apolyton, buy Alpha Centauri

It's a possibility- Vox tributing ND Republic. We can simply ask them- if it's not them, than it's probably someone from Bob, which can be solved, if we Lego puts a NDA...
But i think this is not the case- Vox, according to Beta (i don't believe he's lying about this) did not have any negotiations with ND, so i think what we have here is: 1)3 hand sell to ND from Lego's buyer 2) someon on Bob is actually researching Republic

We know how to solve #1, as for #2- we can tell ND we'll surely get there first, so why wasting more turns in Despotism?

	11-04-2003 19:39									#27
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: quote: Hi, I'll post your message on the forum, but please, take in account that a few things have changed over the last few turns . Just a couple quick questions. Would you be interested in having it faster then the original ETA? ( normal ETA would be in around 5 to 7 turns, however we can get it sooner if we can get some extra funds ) - Do you know if they taken back or founded a new city on BoB? (if they are there at all ) - Would you be interested in aquiring Chivalry from us? (No ETA yet, but since GA has started, we should be able to get it pretty soon, if we decide to get it at all of course.) quote: Darekill wrote on 11-04-2003 15:39: Hello Alva, i'm Darekill ex-governor from ND. Zeit has told me that you would like to sell Feudalism for 200 bucks at once when it is researched. Well to put it short we'll pay that sum. I hope that the war against the dreaded Voxians goes well but since i've seen that you are quite a power on estonia i have no doubt that you can handle them. Please let me know if we have a deal and please understand that things go slow sometimes in our young republic. With best wishes Darekill

anyone object me sending the response?

	11-04-2003 20:02									#28
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Not at all. I'd change the last bit to "should we decide to research it".

	12-04-2003 01:47									#29
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I don't think we should mention Chivalry, or at least phrase it like Shiber said.

If they are willing to give teh 200 g up front for it in 2 turns, we could certainly use the cash. Best to ask for a bit more (50g or equivalent), but not too much. They stand to lose the tech race with GoW for Chivalry if they wait.

Having that gold means we could upgrade every Sword and every Spear to their Feudalism counterparts before Vox could be in position to attack us.

	12-04-2003 02:11									#30
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

One sec, are you offering to give them Feud sooner? We can't do that, they already agreed to us to buy it from us. So, the message should instead be a question to delay the NDA to 10 turns, and a warning that our offer will most likely come in 2 turns, instead of 5.

DeepO