13-03-2003 21:53									#31
	Increase the size of your Attachments

I suggest that we upgrade first the veteran warriors, and that we send the standard and conscript warriors against the barbarians for promotion. In emergency we could upgrade standard, but conscript should rather be suppressed.

In peacetime we should limit our army to the number of units allowed free of upkeep; that will make quickly a fair number of units.

	14-03-2003 22:51									#32
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A small professional army is better than a large unneficient one.
We should keep warriors nearby barb camps, to train them.
Or so I think...
We do have a barbarian camp active, don´t we?

	15-03-2003 22:46									#33
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Great Despot Togas,

I've been examinating the current military situation of our country :

Currently we have (at 1250 BC) :

5 cities (20 units allowed)

5 workers
8 warriors (4 veterans)
13 spearmen

Total : 26 units


I assume that Spain will found min. 4 new cities in the next 50 galactic cycles (turns).

It will allow us 36 free units (OOC : under Despotism or Monarchy /OOC)

Assuming that we will still have 2 new workers, it allows us 8 new free units in the next 50 turns.

I demand

1. Madrid stops the Warrior production and switch to Horsemen at 1225 BC, to build 4 horsemen asap.
2. The upgrade of 4 Warriors to Swordmen when iron is available
3. The Madrid production of 4 Swordmen

(OOC) We should keep in mind that the further Swordmen to Medieval infantery will cost 20 gold per unit
and that it will cost 80 gold to perform each Horseman--> Knight upgrade. (/OOC)

With the above exposed plan, we will have

5 warriors
13 spear
4 vet Horses
8 vet Swordmen

It will be a good army for Spain for the next years, and will help our economy to growth.

We will examinate these plans every 5 galactic cycles to be sure they fit the fluid situation.

Viva España !

Don Pelayo Astronicus

	16-03-2003 22:15									#34
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I support your production demands general.
Are you refining the invasion plans these days?
If so, let me know where they are to be found.

	17-03-2003 01:19									#35
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Señor Astrologix, are you considering about building a galley to patrol the coast near Iron city and make sure that those arabs won't come south to settle at our cities?

	17-03-2003 17:29									#36
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Good thinking. A navy! Dammit we need to explore the ocean sea. The land discovered in the west might be of great importance as it may contain resources and it is certainly of strategic importance to have a city so that we control the canal.
Also; what in the name of all Togases that have gone before do we need such an army for?
I say we keep a strong enough military to smash any incursion and bring the fight to enemy lands, NOT start a war of aggression. We dont need to, and I for one dont WANT to.
Do you great men see the effects of war?
In the eyes of your men? Do you hear the cries of the women and children bereft? Do you feel the people starving because their crops have been destroyed tugging on your cloak as you pass them by?
We should NOT go to war unprovoked. Never start a fight, but always be prepared to finish it if it comes to you. This should be our motto.
We are not bloodthirsty daemons!

	17-03-2003 19:30									#37
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

General, I agree with your proposal. You could also complete it with the barracks you need. Standard spears cannot be really relied on.

	17-03-2003 19:32									#38
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Señores Fernandez, ThePlagueRat and LzPrst,

I am of course considering the production of a navy for our country. But unfortunately this great project is still far from us. We only have one coastal city, Barcelona, which is intended to build a harbor, then a settler, and then... it will take still long for this. And I'm not in favour to change these plans because we need this improvement in order to allow this city growth and an to have an open sea route to trade with the other civilizations of our world.

But it's clear that we need another coastal city ASAP. It's why I'm demanding to our Great Despot and to the Pamplona governor, that after the completion of the current spearman, to affect the next production to produce another settler which will be affected to found our second coastal city, on the spot at the south of Barcelona, at the spicy north side of the river.

These future navy is a serious priority for our country. But, for a while, all our efforts must be affected to give us a strong ground military.

For that, Madrid will still be ordered to build 4 Horsemen and 4 Swordmen in the next years, as well as training our vet warriors to upgrade to Swordmen. I demand that the Magyar warrior was send immediately to Madrid for this purpose.

Señores ThePlagueRat and LzPrst, I will soon open a discussion in order to find the best strategy for our army, stay ready to participate at this important event ....

	09-04-2003 07:31									#39
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With the possibility of war looming on the horizon I call upon The General of the Army of Spain to come forward and present to his King plans for an invasion against Neu Dem. Assume that this invasion would occur at turn 101, if possible.

If not possible, give me the soonest date possible.

--Togas

	10-04-2003 01:05									#40
	Got spare money?

This can be a great opportunity for the empire of Spain to extend it's power. It will be like the backstab our ancestors have written so much about before. I am looking forward to see astronicus' plans...

	10-04-2003 01:57									#41
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quote: Originally posted by Togas With the possibility of war looming on the horizon I call upon The General of the Army of Spain to come forward and present to his King plans for an invasion against Neu Dem. Assume that this invasion would occur at turn 101, if possible. If not possible, give me the soonest date possible. --Togas

Majesty,

I've been busy today working on my office at Barcelona and teaching people on how to build galleys in our soon new harbor !

I'll work on your request tomorrow.

Mylord, I've been reported about the presence of an arab horseman in the vicinity of Trippolis (OOC : you can see it from our latest save /OOC). I will send some mounted troups in that area anyway. I wish to train more horsemen in Madrid soon.

Don Pelayo Astronicus

	11-04-2003 22:34									#42
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I am a bit alarmed due to our lack of libraries.

Our research depends highly of the trade with the other nations. If we are attacked and our science providers cut these trades, we will have major difficulties to play an important part in the tech race, and consequently we will probably lose the battles due to our poorer weapons.

I recommend to continue to "settle like mads" and to build libraries ASAP, and we must carefully consider to enter in a war against other nations wich possibly already have feudalism or will have it prior to us.

It's my first analysis point of our current situation... I will continue tomorrow...

	11-04-2003 23:42									#43
	Increase Your PM Length

I took that in consideration too when I decided to build a marketplace in Zaragoza. I'd rather build improvements instread of military now, but I understand the need of military units.

That is the reason why I stated that I don't care to switch to military production.

If the King doesn't object, I want to build a library after the marketplace. The reason IO have to build the market place is that the money the marketplace generates is useful for both tech trade and tech research but a library is only good for tech research.

Please have some comments and discussion so that I know better of what the higher executive likes to get finished. Then we can negotiate and form a policy for each city.

I hope my fellow dukes will agree with me.

Duke Aidun Cian the younger

	12-04-2003 00:04									#44
	Increase Your PM Length

I guess I'll have to agree mostly with astronicus... Losing the tech race is really annoying.

And building both marketplace and library can be achieved, I guess. We just have to make sure the build queue in Zaragoza is producing offensive units before we enter a war. Will that be in about 20 turns for completing both improvements? Let's just see the how things turns out, while we build one of the improvements... and some swordmen.

Last edited by ThePlagueRat on 12-04-2003 at 04:01

	12-04-2003 00:41									#45
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Maybe cutting the jungles at SAntiago´s north would allow it to grow and to build markets and Libraries and a helluvalot of workers....

	12-04-2003 05:13									#46
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It seems now that ND is becoming suspecious of GoW. Togas is doing a good job of helping that suspecion along!

The war with ND will be comming sooner rather than latter if we plan to side with GoW, which there's no doubt that we should (side with GoW) even considering how dangerous they are.

We need to build up the military apparatus ASAP. Our window of opportunity may be presenting itself shortly.

	12-04-2003 19:26									#47
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quote: Originally posted by BigFree The war with ND will be comming sooner rather than latter if we plan to side with GoW, which there's no doubt that we should (side with GoW) even considering how dangerous they are.

There is notheing wrong with allying with one's most dangerous opponent. If we ally with them we have at least more control over them than without an allaince. We should keep our eyes open during the allaince, we know that we can't trust GoW, but I do trust them that they won't break with us while we have an alliance.
We should also have our troops prepared for the worst when the allaince ends.

Duke Aidun Cian the younger

	12-04-2003 19:45									#48
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As weird as it may sound (and yes, I am aware of GF´s plottings...) I feel GoW is more trustworthy than ND.
Just my opinion, but that alegged ´´ofense´´ toward our Most Heavenly King Augusto Togas seemed to me as a silly attempt to create a justification for a declaration of war against us.
I can´t swallow this... we have the greatest army , and yet those fools treat our King that manner! And also, the foolish DeepO,who dared be cynical when talking to El Rey Togas! That is an outrage!

	13-04-2003 07:14									#49
	Inflate your Upload Space

I would feel better about declaring war against ND if I knew we had a much larger army than they. We must attack them with overwhelming force, and we must conquer them absolutely, for their cities are so far away from civilization that we will have endless difficulties not only raising taxes from the people but they will be quite unappreciative of our rule and as long as any Arab city exist, they will always make attempts at rebellion, some of which may even succeed.

Can we trust GoW to not make a sudden peace treaty after one city falls?

	17-04-2003 00:45									#50
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quote: Originally posted by astrologix I am a bit alarmed due to our lack of libraries. Our research depends highly of the trade with the other nations. If we are attacked and our science providers cut these trades, we will have major difficulties to play an important part in the tech race, and consequently we will probably lose the battles due to our poorer weapons. I recommend to continue to "settle like mads" and to build libraries ASAP, and we must carefully consider to enter in a war against other nations wich possibly already have feudalism or will have it prior to us. It's my first analysis point of our current situation... I will continue tomorrow...

No disrespect Commander, but our men in the field do not want to hear their leader going on about libraries and settlement. We have other wise men to look after such things, do we not?

Onto more serious matters...there is talk abroad about new defensive techniques that I'm curious about. How long before the defenders of Spain will be retrained in these new techniques?

	17-04-2003 19:00									#51
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*Señor Dejon receives a letter from the Monasterio de Montserrat, near Barcelona*

Señor Dejon,

As you can see in the burial records (OOC : "The rest in peace" thread), I'm retired for a while in a monastery. I can't think on military for now.

You are from a military family and I'm sure that you can lead our troops until our King will choose another Commander.

I hope you undestand that my soul is in danger and that our nation needs a man like you to ensure the interim.

Thanks.

Constantino Astronicus

	18-04-2003 18:29									#52
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by astrologix *Señor Dejon receives a letter from the Monasterio de Montserrat, near Barcelona* Señor Dejon, As you can see in the burial records (OOC : "The rest in peace" thread), I'm retired for a while in a monastery. I can't think on military for now. You are from a military family and I'm sure that you can lead our troops until our King will choose another Commander. I hope you undestand that my soul is in danger and that our nation needs a man like you to ensure the interim. Thanks. Constantino Astronicus

* Señor Dejon writes back

Constantino Astronicus,

I wish you well in your temporary retirement and hope you have a speedy recovery. Your soul is a noble Spanish soul, and I have no fear for it.

I will do my best for Spain during your absence.

Regards,
Señor Jaguar Dejon

	26-04-2003 23:30									#53
	Got spare money?

To all Lords of Spain

We are going to agree to send at least 6 units to fight in the Vox/GS war in exchange for receiving Engineering for free. We now need to plan which units to send and how to replace those units quickly. My current feeling is that we should send 2 horsemen, 2 swords, and either 2 pikes or 2 med inf.

--Togas

	26-04-2003 23:38									#54
	Remove this text

I'd prefer to see more Medieval Infantry than Swordsmen, because the latter, obviously, is more useful than the former.

In my opinion, the ideal force would be:

2 Horsemen
2 Medieval Infantrymen
2 Pikemen

Duke Iago Calamari de Toledo

	27-04-2003 00:13									#55
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quote: Originally posted by Togas To all Lords of Spain We are going to agree to send at least 6 units to fight in the Vox/GS war in exchange for receiving Engineering for free. We now need to plan which units to send and how to replace those units quickly. My current feeling is that we should send 2 horsemen, 2 swords, and either 2 pikes or 2 med inf. --Togas

Initial thoughts:

1st galley - First Rider and Watch Rider 2
2nd galley - Royal Guard and Madrid Expedition (Swordsmen)
3rd galley - 2 pikemen

We must minimize any appearance (to ND) of weakening our defenses or withdrawing units. The reassignments of First Rider, Royal Guard, and Madrid Expedition will be unknown. The withdrawal of Watch Rider 2 may be noticed, but is not in a crucial position. We must however, not alter the assignments of Jungle Patrol or Mountain Watch.

We have to get Feudalism from GoW asap. The speediest Pikemen option is to upgrade (in Zaragoza) one of the Cutting Edge Guard (the vet), and the Settler Guard NE,NE of Vigo. The only other veteran spearman we have is the Madrid Guard by Toledo.

Regardless, we need at least 2-3 more spearmen asap. One to guard the ivory city settler, one to replace the Royal Guard, and possible another to replace the lost Cutting Edge Guard.

Barcelona will complete the first galley in two turns, and takes 5 turns for each. Will we consider rushing any of these? I need a timeframe to have units at the coast for departure.

	27-04-2003 00:41									#56
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I want to rush the 2nd galley perhaps after 3 turns of production. We'll check the cost after 2 and reevaluate each turn. In any case, let's plan to have both Gallies loaded and ready to sail from the south of Madrid 8 turns from now (which includes expected build time and moving them into position).

--Togas

	27-04-2003 00:51									#57
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quote: Originally posted by Togas I want to rush the 2nd galley perhaps after 3 turns of production. We'll check the cost after 2 and reevaluate each turn. In any case, let's plan to have both Gallies loaded and ready to sail from the south of Madrid 8 turns from now (which includes expected build time and moving them into position). --Togas

Okay, I'll post a timeframe shortly.

	27-04-2003 01:42									#58
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Okay, the timeline below has the following attributes:

-3 loaded galleys away in 9 turns
-First Galley: 2 Riders (both vet)
-Second Galley: 2 Swords (1 vet, 1 reg)
-Third Galley: 2 Pikeman (both vet)
-Leaves Vigo ungarrisoned for 1 turn
-Removes spearman from Cutting Edge Group (no provisons for replacements at this time, I would like city governors to volunteer to produce replacements)
-Assumes 2nd and 3rd galleys will be rushed at Barcelona with 3 turns remaining (cost?)
-Madrid changes production from worker to Spearman this turn, to be completed in 3 turns
-Assumes we get Feudalism from GoW within the next 2 turns

===================================
Operation Engineering Payment
-------------------
610

Madrid
-Switch to Spearman (3 turns)

Cutting Edge Guard (veteran)
-rename to First Pikeman
-move NE, NE (into Zaragoza)
-upgrade to Pikeman

Cutting Edge Guard (regular)
-rename to Santiago Chargers
-move NW, W (into Santiago)
-Fortify

Santiago Charger
-rename to Vigo Guard
-move S, SW, SW

Settler Guard
-rename to Second Pikeman
-move W, W, N

Ivory Settler
-rename to Ivory Settler
-move SW, SW, S

Vigo Guard
-rename to Ivory Settler Guard
-move S

First Rider
-move NE, N

Watch Rider 2
-move S

Madrid Expedition
-move E

Madrid Guard (with northern settler)
-rename to Settler Guard
-move NW with settler

-------------------
590

Second Pikeman (old Settler Guard)
-move NW, NW (into Zaragoza)
-upgrade to Pikeman

First Rider
-move NE, E

Watch Rider 2
-move S

Madrid Expedition
-move NE

-------------------
570

First & Second Pikeman
-SE, S, SE

First Galley
-move S, SW, SW

First Rider
-move E (onto First Galley)

Watch Rider 2
-move S

Madrid Expedition
-move E

-------------------
550

First & Second Pikeman
-SE, E, E

First Galley
-move NW, NW, NW

Watch Rider 2
-move W, S

New Madrid Spearman
-rename to Madrid Guard
-Fortify

Royal Guard
-move S

-------------------
530

Barcelona
-Rush Galley (3 turns left)

First & Second Pikeman
-E, E

First Galley
-move NW, N, NW

First Rider
-move E (into Barcelona)

Watch Rider 2
-move S, S, SE, E

Royal Guard
-move S, SW, S

-------------------
510

First & Second Pikeman
-SE, S

First Galley
-move NW, N, NW

Watch Rider 2
-move E (onto First Galley)

Royal Guard
-rename to Armada Sword 1
-load into Second Galley

Madrid Expedition
-rename to Armada Sword 2
-load into Second Galley

Second Galley
-NW, NW, NW

! Second Galley away

-------------------
490

First & Second Pikeman
-S, SW, S

! First Galley away

-------------------
470

Barcelona
-Rush Galley (3 turns left)


-------------------
450

First & Second Pikeman
-Load onto Third Galley

Third Galley
-NW, NW, NW

! Third Galley away
===================================

	27-04-2003 02:03									#59
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Dejon,

I wish I'd seen this prior to the turn being played. Turn is away. I took the Vet settler guard and moved him to the Cutting Edge Group, took the Santiago Charger and moved him with the settler, sent the regulard Cutting Edge guard to Santiago...

madrid cannot build a spear, it needs to build a worker in order for the reduction plan to work right.

You may take both of the Cutting Edge Guards to use as Pikes. We can easily rebuild these units. Please send them for pike upgrades (both are now vets) and send them in the boats.

Plan for EITHER 2 gallies (coming back for reinforcements) or 3 gallies. Will depend on the rush cost for them.

--Togas

	27-04-2003 02:08									#60
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quote: Originally posted by Togas Dejon, I wish I'd seen this prior to the turn being played. Turn is away. I took the Vet settler guard and moved him to the Cutting Edge Group, took the Santiago Charger and moved him with the settler, sent the regulard Cutting Edge guard to Santiago... madrid cannot build a spear, it needs to build a worker in order for the reduction plan to work right. You may take both of the Cutting Edge Guards to use as Pikes. We can easily rebuild these units. Please send them for pike upgrades (both are now vets) and send them in the boats. Plan for EITHER 2 gallies (coming back for reinforcements) or 3 gallies. Will depend on the rush cost for them. --Togas

No problem. I had hoped to devise a plan that didn't have adjustments this turn, but it just worked out that way.

The first galley departure is unaffected. The second will be affected by however long it takes us to build and move a spearman to replace the Royal Guard. The third galley has a turn leeway (for GoW to sell us Feud.), so it should be fine as well.