27-04-2003 02:10									#61
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If the rumors in the PTW forum are true, the GoW horsemen were both killed immediately upon landing... we need to get this verified from GoW.

IF that is the case, I want 2 Pikemen in our first galley shipment. We're going to need some solid defense to be able to attack on the following turn.

--Togas

	27-04-2003 02:14									#62
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quote: Originally posted by Togas If the rumors in the PTW forum are true, the GoW horsemen were both killed immediately upon landing... we need to get this verified from GoW. IF that is the case, I want 2 Pikemen in our first galley shipment. We're going to need some solid defense to be able to attack on the following turn. --Togas

Landing undefended Horsemen was foolish.

Everything hinges on us getting Feudalism. In the plan, the Pike Galley is ready within two turns of the others, and I didn't really plan to send them off until all were ready.

	27-04-2003 02:25									#63
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I've posted 590BC orders that incorporate the below revised Operation Engineering Payment.

-3 Galleys ready for departure from E, E of Madrid in 10 turns:
--First Galley: 2 Riders (both vet)
--Second Galley: 2 Swords (1 vet, 1 reg)
--Third Galley: 2 Pikeman (both vet)

-Need garrison replacement for Royal Guard in Madrid by 410BC (10 turns)
-Removes both spearman from Cutting Edge Group (no provisons for replacements at this time, I would like city governors to volunteer to produce replacements)
-Assumes 2nd and 3rd galleys will be rushed at Barcelona with 3 turns remaining (cost?)
-Assumes we get Feudalism from GoW within the next 2 turns (590BC or 570BC)

===================================
Operation Engineering Payment
-------------------
590

Cutting Edge Guard (both)
-move NW, NW (into Zaragoza)
-If we have Feudalism:
--Rename to First Pikeman & Second Pikeman
--upgrade both to Pikeman (cost?)

First Rider
-move NE, E

Watch Rider 2
-move SE, S

Madrid Expedition
-move E

-------------------
570

First & Second Pikeman
-SE, S, SE

First Galley
-move S, SW, SW

First Rider
-rename to Armada Rider 1
-move E (onto First Galley)

Watch Rider 2
-move SW

Madrid Expedition
-move NE

-------------------
550

First & Second Pikeman
-SE, E, E

First Galley
-move NW, NW, NW

Watch Rider 2
-move W

Madrid Expedition
-move E

-------------------
530

Barcelona
-Rush Galley (3 turns left)

First & Second Pikeman
-E, E

First Galley
-move NW, N, NW

First Rider
-move E (into Barcelona)

Watch Rider 2
-W, S

-------------------
510

First & Second Pikeman
-SE, S

First Galley
-move NW, N, NW

Watch Rider 2
-move S, S, SE, E

Madrid Expedition
-rename to Armada Sword 2
-load into Second Galley

Second Galley
-NW, NW, NW

-------------------
490

First & Second Pikeman
-S, SW, S

Watch Rider 2
-rename to Armada Rider 2
-move E (onto First Galley)

First Galley
-fortify
-ready for Departure (E, E of Madrid)

Second Galley
-NW, N, NW

-------------------
470

Barcelona
-Rush Galley (3 turns left)

Second Galley
-fortify
-ready for Departure (E, E of Madrid)

-------------------
450

First & Second Pikeman
-rename to Armada Pike 1 and 2
-load onto Third Galley

Third Galley
-NW, NW, NW

-------------------
430

Third Galley
-NW, N, NW

-------------------
410

Royal Guard
-rename to Armada Sword 1
-move E, E (onto Second Galley)

All Galleys are E, E of Madrid and ready for departure
===================================

Feedback is welcome.

Last edited by dejon on 27-04-2003 at 02:56

	27-04-2003 07:37									#64
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The Spanish Armada shall be like no other flotilla ever assembled. The sun shall shine down upon those three hundred ships, and rays of celestial light shall dance across the many sails of the vessels.

(turns a shade of embarrased red)

Well, anyway, all I see is the claim in the agora that a force of two brigades of Chinese horsemen landed on the shores of Egypt, and that a swift movement, I suppose perhaps of those wild Egyptian chariots that are supposedly so amazing, immediately destroyed them on the beaches. I can't say I feel sorry at all for those bloody Warmongers. Indeed, I am somewhat pleased at it. However, in future, it could be us.

Could we possibly land in Voxian territory and advance from there? If not, we need to plant them so far to the south of the line of battle, and yet to avoid Egyptian detection, as to make a safe landing, and to be of some use in this war. We cannot allow our troops to be defeated in such a puny manner at the Warmongers did. What cowards they must be.

Duke Iago Calamari de Toledo

	27-04-2003 15:23									#65
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Great plan HG!

Now lets see if GoW will come through, I'm pretty sure they will, according to MasterZen but this is GF we're talking about. :/

	27-04-2003 18:34									#66
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If we land behind Vox lines and make our coordination with them obvious, then GS will have the impression that we are true allies with Vox and thus enemies to them.

If we make a surprise landing in GS territory then we only look opportunistic.

Our diplomats should discuss these alternatives. I will be drawing up the next stage of Operation Engineering Payment (water travel and landing) in a few days.

	27-04-2003 19:55									#67
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Hey, I got some suggestions too.

Name for transport Galley: Santa Maria.
Name for entire flotilla: El Krakén

	27-04-2003 20:22									#68
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quote: Originally posted by dejon -Assumes 2nd and 3rd galleys will be rushed at Barcelona with 3 turns remaining (cost?)

I've made a scenario and calculated the cost of rushing galleys in Barcelona :

3 turns remaining : cost = 72 gold
2 turns remaining : cost = 48 gold

IMO you should revise your plans since we can't afford these costs (in addition we need gold to acquire Feudalism from GoW)

	27-04-2003 20:47									#69
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quote: Originally posted by ThePlagueRat Hey, I got some suggestions too. Name for transport Galley: Santa Maria. Name for entire flotilla: El Krakén

Santa Maria
El Kraken

The entire flotilla will be known as the Spanish Armada.

Any other suggestions for individual galley names - we need two more.

	27-04-2003 20:49									#70
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quote: Originally posted by astrologix I've made a scenario and calculated the cost of rushing galleys in Barcelona : 3 turns remaining : cost = 72 gold 2 turns remaining : cost = 48 gold IMO you should revise your plans since we can't afford these costs (in addition we need gold to acquire Feudalism from GoW)

I didn't realize it would be quite so high for 3 turns remaining. And paying for 2 turns remaining isn't worthwhile either for just 1 turn quicker. If we don't rush the either galley, the timeframe will be pushed out considerably.

Perhaps we should investigate non-monetary forms of compensation for Feudalism?

	28-04-2003 00:20									#71
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quote: Originally posted by dejon Santa Maria Any other suggestions for individual galley names - we need two more.

Nina
Pina

The other two (of the 3) ships that Chris Columbus sailed with the Santa Maria to the New World.

--Togas

	28-04-2003 01:54									#72
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Perhaps we just send over two galleys with 4 units ASAP with no rushing and then send the galleys back home for reserves; either 2 more units or 4, denpending on the situation in Estonia.

	28-04-2003 08:19									#73
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Christopher Columbus Calamari is my third daughter's husband, and a fine seaman, when he's not busy disgorging over the side of the ship. But other than that, he's great. First hired him for the squid trade.

Nina? Pinta? Aren't they the dancers at the tavern? Doesn't matter. Forget it.

I know that the Egyptians wouldn't be too pleased by the sight of our troops dancing over their blue borderline and all, but the alternative could be getting squashed on the beach-head, and it seems to me that crossing the border and getting the Egyptians a bit peeved is a better alternative than making ourselves look ridiculous by sending a large invasion force only to see it get crushed.

I don't know any other alternatives than those. Perhaps they had an island colony that I was unaware of, but I rather doubt it. It seems we must invade over the border, or land on the beaches and stand the risk of immediate destruction. That is if we intend to be of any use in this war at all, other than to sit around with troops available to look nice.

Duke Iago Calamari de Toledo

	28-04-2003 11:27									#74
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What we really need is to now how far is Estonia from Terra Nostra. Then we could know if going there and coming back for reinforcements is an option or no.

	28-04-2003 21:47									#75
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Hmm... some people seems to like "El Krakén", and some people don't.

Santa Maria, Nina, Pina, should be the first three galleys IMO.
Ok, what about a name suggestion poll?

	29-04-2003 01:28									#76
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I say keep El Kraken for something Heavy, like a battleship.
And AFAIK it is Santa MAria, Nina & Pinta, not Pina, of course I may be wrong. LEt us call our full-time-spaniard, Oliver , and let him say the correct pronounciation.

	29-04-2003 06:04									#77
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How long will it take our Armada to reach thier shores? I'd hate to see our troops make such a long trek only to find when the get there that war was over long ago and its battles told as stories by aging Immortals.

I think we should try to coordinate with Vox as much as possible. 4 units attacking a city at the same turn are always better than two. We must wipe then out instead of just giving them experience.

	29-04-2003 07:06									#78
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It is 33 tiles along the coastlines to the only GS city we can see (11 turns). I am anxiously awaiting the GoW map to see if there is somewhere we might be able to cross more quickly.

	29-04-2003 07:18									#79
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quote: Originally posted by OliverFA What we really need is to now how far is Estonia from Terra Nostra. Then we could know if going there and coming back for reinforcements is an option or no.

I'm negotiating now with GoW for that information. They offered us their map on the last turn, but did not send it as "accepted." I've asked MZ about this, but he says GF has been away for the weekend and he doesn't know anything about it. We'll see what happens. I'm also grilling him over the availablity of Feudalism not that our Defensive Pact against ND is done.

	29-04-2003 07:46									#80
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I'm starting to lose faith in our ability to get what we need for this plan. If we don't get the necessary knowledge quickly and have enough gold for at least one boat upgrade, it will be a long time before the Armada arrives - too long, I'm guessing.

	29-04-2003 11:56									#81
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quote: Originally posted by dejon I'm starting to lose faith in our ability to get what we need for this plan. If we don't get the necessary knowledge quickly and have enough gold for at least one boat upgrade, it will be a long time before the Armada arrives - too long, I'm guessing.

Well, if the Armada arrives too late we can always consider the option of complementing it with a settler and use it to defendd the first overseas Spanish city founded.

	30-04-2003 02:52									#82
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quote: Originally posted by OliverFA Well, if the Armada arrives too late we can always consider the option of complementing it with a settler and use it to defendd the first overseas Spanish city founded.

Given what happened to Vox when they tried to settle on Bob, I don't think this would be a bright idea.

	30-04-2003 11:42									#83
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We don't have to keep the city. Selling it is always a possibility

	30-04-2003 20:33									#84
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We would better raze the city until the time comes that we will fully concentrate on colonizing. If we keep the city or setle, it can combine GS and Vox against us, something I don't want to see happening. They will both realize that we have an opportunity profit form their war.

Duke Aidun Cian

	30-04-2003 21:12									#85
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quote: Originally posted by Nuclear Winter I say keep El Kraken for something Heavy, like a battleship. And AFAIK it is Santa MAria, Nina & Pinta, not Pina, of course I may be wrong. LEt us call our full-time-spaniard, Oliver , and let him say the correct pronounciation.

NW is right, It is Pinta nor Pina. The three ships were Santa Maria, Pinta and Niña (yes, that ñ again...)

	30-04-2003 23:30									#86
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[ooc]Ehm, there is one thing you are aparently forgetting: Christofo Colombo, that's his real name, sailed in WESTERN direction instead of, the common, eastern direction. GS is to our east... The continent Colombo should discover is Legos, the island of Legoland.

Aidun

[ooc]

	30-04-2003 23:51									#87
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Aidun, you are right

Another thing is that la Santa Maria, la Pinta and la Niña were Caravels, NOT Galleys !!!

And they should sail to discover an UNKNOWN continent (Lego), not to fight against a known one !

Please, go to make confession with the Pope, you are sinners

	02-05-2003 02:17									#88
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Marshal Dejon, I'm inclined to agree. If this expedition is launched at all, we must 1) make sure it arrives safetly, 2) make sure the land troops are landed in a position of safety until they can inflict the maximum amount of damage upon the enemy, and 3) find some way of getting a real benefit out of it.

As for ship names...the Armada can't be named after Nina and Pinta. I tracked them down, and they are slave dancers! Furthermore, those names are reserved for exploratory expeditions...

El Kraken is a fine name, and one that will inspire fear in the hearts of our barbaric swine enemies! Let's just hope our Kraken doesn't meet up with THE Kraken...

Duke Iago Calamari de Toledo

	04-05-2003 02:00									#89
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The Kraken is an Evil animal! how come you want to name our ship of *Liberation* named as a wild beast?
Besides, all know the Sea serpents eat Krakens, SO this name will attract Sea Serpents! And yet another motive is that El Kraken is a single ship, and as far as I know we are sending a band of them (each galley represents 5 galleys If I recall corectly).

	04-05-2003 20:38									#90
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Nuclearis, I'm going to hunt down every smelly kraken on earth, and eat them! They ate my son!

But, for a ship name, I rather like it in a sickening, twisted way. You see, it evokes the right sort of feeling for something really, really big, and rather nasty to come up against. However, perhaps you are right about the Sea Serpents. Someone was chewing on one of my squid boats the other day, and I think it might well have been one of those bloody little guys looking for a kraken.

Duke Iago Calamari de Toledo

Whatever name you choose, I'd be glad to bless and sanctify the vessel...

Cardinal Fernand Calamari