15-06-2003 17:04									#121
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Average, in comparison, I loathe to report. We have not the metal to match them in battle yet, but soon we shall!

	15-06-2003 21:25									#122
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Well then... They will probably go for those flail swingers too then, or even knights? I bet ND would be too hard to match if they did that...

	15-06-2003 23:44									#123
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I would like to know what all here, including our most illustrious Head of the Army to say what are Spain´s plans for defense. Just throw our soldiers out there or there is a strategy behind it?
Maybe lines of stacks with catapults and counter attack forces? Or just plain loads of pikemen? Anyway it would be good to know what kind of Defense is Spain aiming at, so that we can help the army when deciding what shall our cities build.
Sincerely,
Nuclearis Winterius the III

	16-06-2003 18:44									#124
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Nuclearis... I don't really know how our commander is planning these days. We must have a word with him soon, and this time, the General gotta listen to his officers. I would recommend, as I always do, a strong attack force, so that we can do serious damage to our foes if we are attacked. I would not recommend only plain loads of pikemen, or just too many catapults.

The Engineer corps just hired this Italian dude, and I have been talking to him this week. He told me that the cheap italian wooden machinery might not fire very often and will rarely hit their target. He reccommended these machines only for launching tomatoes on special occasions.

	16-06-2003 19:32									#125
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Greetings Gentlemen,

We are currently in the process of rotating garrison units so that we can upgrade the training of our older forces. This process started in the north, so our primary defense line has already been upgraded. The same process will take awhile longer in the south however, as not all those cities have roads to them.

Sadly, there was little response to my last public plea to the governors. I asked if they felt safe, and they either ignored my letter, or simply said that their current garrisons were adequate. A small few said they had plans to expand their forces.

For the past many centuries, the military has been forced to accept what the governors feel is sufficient, rather than to be required to build what the military knows is needed. Until this changes, the Spanish military will forever be just 'average' in the world. We may never have enough might to instill fear and worry in our neighbours. If a nation with an immense military were to invade us, our forces would be brushed aside as mere nuisances.

There has been a few reasons for hope lately, however. The governor of Toledo, bless his soul, has constructed a training facility, like the one in Zaragoza, and has begun an exciting recruiting program. The governor of Barcelona, having heard of the mighty navy of the Gathering Storm, has spoken aloud about improving our own navy. More roads are being built in Spain, which greatly facilitate the movement of our forces.

King Togas, in his infinite wisdom, has approved an agressive expansion plan for Spain in the coming years. I agree with this plan, even though it means less new military units in the short term. Once these new settlements are established, my hope is that our liege will then demand an equivalent military expansion. I would like to see a 2-3 fold increase in total forces as quickly as possible.

Thank you for your interest in, and concern for, the Armies of Spain. I share your reservations about the short-term security of Spain. Please talk to your local representatives and let them know how you feel.

Yours sincerely,
Señor Jaguar Dejon,
Commander of the Armies of Spain

	16-06-2003 21:16									#126
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Jaguar Dejon,

The King of Spain and the Lords of Spain need to know what you, our general, believe should be built, and how you will prepare for a possible eastern invasion.

If you do not ask that specific military units be built and stationed in designated areas, the Lords will continue their own individual projects. Please direct the Lords accordingly.

--Togas

	17-06-2003 06:25									#127
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Gentlemen,
With the Arab fanatics roaming abroad with iron mauls and scimitars I think mere garrisons are of no use. I think we may need something more complex. take as an example the Vox-GS war, were GS maintained their mainland through mobility techniques, hit and run tactics and the like. I think we should think in two directions, one of a massive defensive line out of the cities, possibly in the jungles,in the old fashioned way (humongous stacks and catapults and all the like) or in a kill line in the jungle , were we force tehm to jump on grasslands at teh end of their turn so that they are vulnerable to counterattack. Or variations, like fortress lines and such. Eitehr way, I think we should choose one single manner and concentrate all our efforts in it. Please let us discuss this.
Nuclearis Winterius the III

	17-06-2003 07:42									#128
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quote: Originally posted by Togas Jaguar Dejon, The King of Spain and the Lords of Spain need to know what you, our general, believe should be built, and how you will prepare for a possible eastern invasion. If you do not ask that specific military units be built and stationed in designated areas, the Lords will continue their own individual projects. Please direct the Lords accordingly. --Togas

Very well.

My Lord and dear governors, the following is required to ensure the safety of Spain in the coming generations.

The ancient "Cutting Edge" defense group is a sound strategy, and should be mirrored in all four corners of Spain. Each stack should consist of 5 offensive units and 2 defensive units.

There should be such stacks between:
-Zaragoza & Santiago (the only one we have)
-Toledo & Bilbao
-New Madrid & Barcelona
-Barcelona & Valencia
-Santiago & Vigo

Sevilla is all on its own and should have a minimum of three defenders, as should our capital, Pamplona. The inner cities (Leon, Salamanca) can do with two defenders. The border and coastal cities should have 3 defenders, with 2 catapults in cities that are probable attacking/landing points. (Santiago, Zaragoza, Toledo, New Madrid, Barcelona, Vigo)

To effectively repel an eastern seaborne invasion would require the construction of several galleys, perhaps 2 per coastal city. One tactic to hurt an enemy navy in this era is to have catapults in your coastal cities, and in select fortied locations where landings could occur. The catapults bombard the ships, and then the galleys attack the damage vessels.

In total:
25 Medieval Infantry
44 Pikeman
12 Catapults
8 Galleys

Currently we have:
10 Pikeman
8 Spearman
2 Warriors
7 Medieval Infantry
4 Swordsmen
3 Horsemen
2 Galleys
16 Workers

Costing 28gpt

Once our new cities are settled, our allowed units will go up to 38 (from 24). Still, there will be significant drain on the economy to support a military to rival that of GS and drive fear into the hearts of the other civs on Bob. We must stop buying all technology, we have to research techs ourselves and trade to many to reap the economic benefit. We must trade our numerous luxuries for income. And we must connect all our cities to increase trade, reduce corruption, and facilitate troop movements.

The force I have detailed will provide more than adequate DEFENSE of Spain. If we wished to embark on an OFFENSIVE campaign, even against the Arabs to the nearby north, we would need MUCH MORE.

It is not enough to have a military that is 'Average' to the Arabs. If we build a military that is 'Average', or better, 'Strong' to the Egyptians, the world will fall at our heels.

I have been in error to not have detailed such matters earlier. I thought it obvious that we were underarmed. I imagined that Spain was "flying low" and playing a primarily diplomatic game. If there is serious interest in having serious military options that don't rely on diplomatic alliances, I will draw up hypothetical campaign plans. Please don't waste my time with more silliness like the aid package for the Voxians was.

With the exception of Vigo (which I mentioned twice should be switched to Barracks), I am content with the current city builds. Every barracks city (Zaragoza, Toledo, New Madrid) should be building solely military units for the foreseeable future. I shudder when Duke Aidun talks about building a marketplace or other such foolishness in Zaragoza, the very heart of our military. I would like to see options for rushing the barracks in New Madrid.

That is all for now.

-Jaguar

	17-06-2003 16:28									#129
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I have sent his Majesty King Justino Togas I a letter in which I proposed roughly the same as Señor Dejon is doing here. It was not as much in detail as this plan, which I fully support, although I have my doubts about whether we should build that much troops.
I think we can do with a little bit less troops than Dejon's proposal and further increase the number as soon as we have a better economy (marketplaces and libraries).

I have agreed with Serfmaster Tamali that Zaragoza will produce 1 worker at the moment, after which it will concentrate on building military units. This worker will be used to, at first, complete the mining of the grasslands around Zaragoza in order to generate a production of 10 shields per turn. This will allow us to produce a regiment of pikemen every three turns and a regiment of medieval infantry every four turns.

Zaragoza will concentrate on producing pikemen first, then medieval infantry.

Duke Aidun Cian of Zaragoza

	19-06-2003 04:06									#130
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Jaguar Dejon's plan is a bold one indeed, however, I am unsure how Spain will be able to build and afford the upkeep on that many units.

New technology will soon be available: Chivalry. I believe that Spain will benefit greatly from having the core of our army being mounted units, as our nation is large and we will need a mobile army to address attacks quickly.

I propose and adjustment to his plan:


We have 1 division of Land-based Heavy Infantry -- The Mauls. They will be stationed near Leon and will bear the brunt of a large land-based attack force along our jungle border.

I would ask for 8 Mauls to be stationed with this group in addition to 2 Pike defenders. Additionally, Vigo, Santiago, and Zaragoza would have 2 defenders, and in an emergency we should be able to shift defenders to place 6 pikemen in whatever city is threatened.

All Coastal cities would have 2 pikes.

Toledo needs 2 pikes and walls.

Madrid would have 2 pikes.

4 Catapults would each be stationed near New Madrid and Leon

Two teams of 8 KNIGHTS will be built and stationed near New Madrid and near the gold deposit between Valencia and Sevilla.

--Togas

	19-06-2003 07:17									#131
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I set my numbers high because I expected them to get chopped.

Quick thoughts (on Togas' idea, and more):

-Leaves Barcelona ripe for the picking (land stack on coastal road)

-Assumes we get Chivalry soon (If I were GoW/ND, I would do all I could to ensure RP got that tech very late, and swarm them with Riders and Ansars.)

-The rest of the strategy relies on the availability (Chivalry) and mobility (Engineering) of the Knights. Do we have trades planned for either?

-The standard defenders for key cities are inadequate and one stack of Mauls cannot guard all fronts.

-We should build a larger number of catapults for eventual cannons

-We need a game plan to get to Gunpowder, and to have the needed upgrade funds once we get it. Only once every city is defended by 2-3 Muskets can we start to feel a bit safe from the Riders/Ansars of the north.

-Spain is Commercial, we should be planning on building units early and upgrading later. Once the cities of the Great Western Settlement are built and connected, we'll be an economic powerhouse.

	27-06-2003 22:47									#132
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Gen. dejon, the old spear and swordsmen divisions...
can they be upgraded?

- If not, I think you should disband them, while raising an equivalent force of med.infantrymen and pikemen. Just a though.

	27-06-2003 23:18									#133
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We will not be disbanding any units. You were kidding, right?

	06-07-2003 03:51									#134
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The Republican Update

Our nation is now a Republic, and I am the head of it's army.

I have retained General Dejon to be our cheif tactical commander, he is to direct the troops, position them to deal with an impending invasion, and to advise and recommend proper military production to the Lords. He is the General of the Army of Spain. He is presently deploying, upgrading, and managing the troops.

GoW presents a very real danger in the coming years. They have Chivalry and will be mass producing Riders. We need a new emphasis on our military, however ...

At this moment there is ONE city producting military units. This is a necessary but unfortunate fact. Zaragoza is building more infantry. Toledo is building a settler. Madrid and Pamplona are building granaries.

We must not stray from the Great Western Settlement. We must allow Vigo, Toledo, and Madrid to build their settlers. I am placing these settlers on a higher priority than military development. Therefore, we have the following "big picture" for our nation's production:

Zaragoza -- will be 10 sheilds very shortly. Will mass produce infantry and pikes. Endlessly. The forges will not stop and the barracks will never be empty. The great city of Zaragoza will be the center of our military industry!

Toledo -- will return to military production after this settler, however I fear the city of Toledo is could use more improvements. I urge for the addition of more mines, roads, and irrigation to this vital city!

Madrid -- will finish granary, will build a settler, will then begin full military buildup as needed, with brief breaks for improvements like a marketplace or library or workers.

Pamplona -- will half-build military in addition to city improvements like a market, library, colloseum, and barracks. It will also produce workers and possibly a settler in the future, but will never fall below population 7 again.

Santiago -- not a strong military city, but a strong commercial one. It should continue building a marketplace.

Vigo -- once the Settler is complete, it needs to focus on the defense of this important region. However, a market and barracks may also be required. There is much work to be done in Vigo.

Leon -- continues to make settlers and workers for us.

Salamanca -- needs to cease worker construction and become a new military camp for us. I propose the addition of barracks or the construction of siege weapons here.

Barcelona -- strives to become a large city, and will build a temple after the aquaduct is complete, then a market or additional gallies would be required. Barcelona would build either city improvements or navy for us.

Vallencia -- Needs to be improved and allowed to contribute towards our navy. The harbor will help greatly as do the current workers.

Bilbao -- needs to build walls and then a temple after this next worker is done.

Merida -- not sure what to recommend for this city, but it has a lot of commerce potential ...

Sevilla and our other 2 new cities are too weak to be relied upon for much more than contributing their their own basic defense and giving us workers to improve the south-west.

THEREFORE WE HAVE:

Purely Military Cities: Zaragoza, Toledo.
Primarily Military Cities: Madrid, Salamanca.
Mixed Military Cities: Vigo, Pamplona, Santiago, Bilbao, Merida.
Non-military: Leon, Valencia, Barcelona.

--Togas