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Panzer32
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Queens University, Kingston, Ontario
Oct 2002
time: 00:25
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From AdaMada:
Dear Panzer,
How do things bode in the fruitful lands of GoW? It’s been far too long since our nations have conversed at any length, and it is a pity that we’ve lacked an opportunity to sit around the bargaining table as friends in the past weeks.
I’ve been informed by Togas, our Great and Illustrious Depot, that representatives from Our Explorer’s Guild have made contact with your warrior group as you’ve left the jungle. Our explorers greet your warrior group, and are especially reverent to be in the presence of such masters of war, but we regret to inform you that the small valley your troops now occupy is part of the Spanish homeland. We consider the region from south of the jungle to the western ocean to be our home. Indeed, our exploration guild has taken the mission of protecting our boarder upon itself, and was keeping watch over our homes and families along our border when they had the pleasure of meeting your troops.
I’ve been asked to inform you that you’re welcome to stay and feast with us tonight, as España is proud to call Glory of War a friend. Indeed, I believe our Depot recently saw it fit to engrave a statement of our friendship in gold and deliver it to you as a gift, wise and great as he is. In spite of this magnificent friendship, however, we cannot allow your warrior group any further into España. It is not only a matter of pride to the Spanish people and their Depot, but we are also weary of allowing armed troops through the lands of our children, as we fear for their safety in the presence of clubs – children have the most wretched tendency to place their hands upon places they don’t belong. Indeed, Togas has decreed that no foreign warrior groups or scouts may travel through Spain else they wish to endure the wraith of the Spanish Armies, and no exceptions can be made in this matter, even for such valued and respected friends.
We understand and admire your desire to learn of our lands and geography, and would suggest that we may soon be able to offer alternatives rather than sending scouts to report. As you are doubtlessly aware, both of our respective scholars have been mumbling about some newfangled technology of ‘mapmaking’ for some time, which would allow us to give you the same details you would learn for yourself were your warriors permitted to precede. Once our scholars have broken the mysteries of this knowledge, our ‘map’ could be transported far and wide, and we would be happy to exchange maps with you at that time.
If you wish, we will happily supply your warrior group with fresh water and supplies for their trip back through the jungle. We are indeed sorry that we cannot permit them any further into Spanish land at this time, and we hope that we will eventually see the day where all children can frolic comfortably, with the knowledge that warriors of all clans will take it upon their clubs to protect them and do them no harm. We hope that you understand our situation.
Best wishes from Iberia,
adaMada
Togas’ Ambassador to Glory of War
Also sent to GF.
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GhengisFarb
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I want my HAMBURGERS!!
May 2002
time: 23:25
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We are not agreeing to any of the demands of Roleplay that we cease all exploring until they give us a legitimate reason to give them half the continent while ND, Lux and us share the smaller half.
Last edited by GhengisFarb on 08-02-2003 at 02:46
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Panzer32
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Queens University, Kingston, Ontario
Oct 2002
time: 00:25
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How about this deal: we go back if they agree to give us their [territory or world?] map when we discover map making?
Also, about my PM reply sent: It did only ask questions, and did not propose a deal. I asked if they would allow us (I mean without them getting mad) to stay stationary (or go back, if we want) for the time being. As much as I hope we can resolve this soon, I realise it might take one or two turns to sort it out. Our team is currently discussing one or two agreements that I hope would be satisfactory to both teams.
This is what I said in part of the PM.
In the other part, I asked about the size of the territory they have 'claimed'. I said we understand that they want room to expand, but do not think teams should claim territory unnecesarily. Also, asked how many resources are in this territory.
This is pretty much it, along with the diplomatic mumbo jumbo (I mentioned our nonagression pact, and said we weren't invading to take Madrid).
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Panzer32
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Queens University, Kingston, Ontario
Oct 2002
time: 00:25
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quote:
Originally posted by GhengisFarb
My plan is this. We inform Roleplay that they can let us continue exploring unmolested OR we will give our complete map of the south and their lands to both ND, Lux, and any other civ who requests it to assist those civs in planning invasion of the south. This is a suggestion and I would like to hear others ideas and comments.
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What complete map of the south? Or, are you saying that we would keep exploring anyway, if they 'molest' us?
I think there should be a third option, too. That is, we leave if they give us a favourable trade. Like, if they agree to a golden age contract, and we leave; or maybe they give us a worker or two... I just think there should be a peaceful (but profitable) alternative, since it concerns more ND and Lux, not us.
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GhengisFarb
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I want my HAMBURGERS!!
May 2002
time: 23:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Panzer32
What complete map of the south? Or, are you saying that we would keep exploring anyway, if they 'molest' us?
I think there should be a third option, too. That is, we leave if they give us a favourable trade. Like, if they agree to a golden age contract, and we leave; or maybe they give us a worker or two... I just think there should be a peaceful (but profitable) alternative, since it concerns more ND and Lux, not us. |
The two things that have gone up in value now that we are playing against humans and not AI are maps and luxuries.
Roleplay is trying to hog both. I can't think of anything they can offer us that is worth giving those two up.
ND says they have a scout a next to the Spanish warrior our warrior is next to.
quote:
Originally posted by Panzer32
From AdaMada:
Also sent to GF. |
He lied. He never sent anything to me.
Last edited by GhengisFarb on 17-01-2003 at 19:31
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Hot_Enamel
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Melbourne, Australia
Aug 2002
time: 14:25
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quote:
From GF on the "War with Roleplay" thread
I had a chat with Togas this morning right before I left for work and they had decided not to honor the Horseback Riding for Writing deal they had previously agree to.
This means their word is nothing. Any offer to trade us their map later, after Mapmaking, is useless as they will just as likely fail to honor that deal as this one.
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Our diplomatic relations have taken a nose dive.
RP will pay for their lack of Honor. Both from our Riders when we take over their land and cities, and also diplomatically when we feed this evil deal breaking news to other nations. 
However, for now, I believe we should attempt resurrect the deal. We want writing. And we give them HB Riding. With Horsies, we are still too far away for them to use against us.
Lets take our revenge on our timetable...and not do anything rash now.
Do not tell them that the GOW does not recognise their claim for land. Do not tell them that we agree with it.
Simply tell them that we do not believe they have the right to demand peaceful exploration from territory that does not fall within their cultural borders.
Remind them that the GOW has never broken or reneged a deal, and that we will only remove our troops if we receive a jpg map of their territory.
Now here is where I may get the wrath of GF on me. I think we should return the favour and give them our map.
I believe, that the map trade should be geographic only. (Ctl-Shft-M). Keeping our city locations safe.
Who cares that they see we have wine. By the time they could set up an offensive against us, our Riders will have destroyed half their cities.
This map trade should be made in good faith that neither team will share it with any other nation.
This includes Lux GF.  Feel free to describe what we know in words to them, but just dont send them the map.
We dont have iron working yet, so iron wont appear on our map (assuming a resource is close by - xing fingers), and if we want to be sneaky, I am sure our map making geniuses could brush out our local horse resource. I dont recommend this as it may backfire later.
In summary, it gives them the notion that we are holding no gruges. They get what they want, and our warriors come home. We get an extra tech, and have additional ammunition to make ND & Lux believe Southern expansion is better than Northern.
We want to keep the illusion that RP remains our allies.
We are going to have a local war. Say we align ourselves with ND and take out Lux. This will leave ND between us and RP.
We now have the option to turn on ND and align ourselves with RP for a two front war. Or we can keep our original aliance with ND and take out RP together.
(These are long term plans)
OK - Thats all.
Please dont flame me too much for suggesting a map trade. I just believe our warmongering strategists will get more out of knowing their map than they will get out of ours.
Also note, that GF has convinced me that we need to map the entire continent, so if we cant get a map trade deal, then our warriors continue to explore.
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GhengisFarb
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I want my HAMBURGERS!!
May 2002
time: 23:25
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They flat out will not give us Writing. Has nothing to do with exploring, they weren't going to trade before the explorer situation.
They have traded with ND and Lux, its obvious they want to go to war with us and have no care about their diplomatic reputation.
i have no problems trading maps for maps, but Roleplay will not do that later. Their word on trading us their map is useless. If they are so protective of the mapped area now that they have no settlements on it how are they going to be later when it does?
Received this message today:
quote:
Good news!
Our people would like to give you iron working for horse riding as soon as possible.
Please tell me if you want to trade and when you have discovered horse riding.
If there are still plans to make a tech alliance (without spain?) please tell me.
Thanks a lot
Good luck |
We need to work out a deal between us, ND, and Lux.
I would like to see about trading for Ironworking from ND, and Writing from Trip. Let Lux know that we are aware of their alliance with RP and feel RP violated theri deal with us because they feel they can use Lux to get theri techs and pit us against them.
Will trade them Horseback Riding in return they trade it to Roleplay and give us Writing back.
I would have liked to put this up for discussion but as we have the timecounter ticking I passed this meassage on to Togas in hopes of "shaming" him into going through with the Writing deal:
quote:
Here's the save.
I am suprised that you chose to break the tech trade agreement we had made to trade Horseback Riding for Writing but I would rather find out your team is untrustworthy now than later. |
Last edited by GhengisFarb on 18-01-2003 at 20:29
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Panzer32
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Queens University, Kingston, Ontario
Oct 2002
time: 00:25
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Response from Roleplay
quote:
Panzer,
I apologize for the late reply -- it has indeed been a busy day, with much discussion on my team about how to respondto this recent set of events. There are obviously many people with different feelings on the issue, and it has (as such) generated a great deal of discussion about how to best respond to this chain of events, even within my own team .
Firstly, in regards to your question about how big the territory in question is. El Valle De Los Torros has jungle to the north, is surrounded by mountains on two sides, and has the sea at its west. It is literally the heartland of España. At its widest points, it is about seven spaces wide and four deep. At our current rate, we'll have it mostly settled within twenty turns, and another ten after that our settlement should be complete. That should give you a rough feeling for the size of the land -- if there is any other information you desire, please let me know.
It is the land we have. I understand your concern -- how do you know that we are not portioning off half of the map for ourselves? -- but I tell you, it is not the case. This is the little land available to us, and we must protect it, not out of greed, but because it is our home. As we've said, we're happy to trade maps with you as soon as the technology is available, and you can see that we speak the truth -- it is not merely some land that we might choose to settle in the future, but it is indeed the land that we are settling now, and shall be done settling soon in the future.
It is not that we trust you any less than we trust any other in this matter. We have asked both ND and Lux to do the same, and have gone as far as to sign some agreements to this matter. To quote from our private forums:
quote:
Originally posted by ruby_maser
El Valle de los Toros represents the most arable land in the vicinity of the Spanish kingdom and, as so, also represents the most viable option for settlement in the near future. Scouting in the valley constitutes a knowledge of our homeland's defenses that we would prefer to avoid. We have made no such scouting expedition north of the jungle for that very reason and have also come to an understanding with Lux Invicta and Neu Demogyptica concerning this issue. As such, we would ask that you join us in friendship and respect and know that we shall extend you and your lands the same courtesy. |
As we've said, we have been happy to avoid scouting your territory until you're prepared for it to be shown, and would gladly trade maps as soon as it's possible. If it would make your people more at ease with the situation, we'd be happy to sign a mutual agreement with you in this regard. We have discovered Iron Working in the recent past -- once we've resolved this larger issue of territory, we can see what trades are available to us (I fear that it may already be too late for a trade with Iron (though I can't say for sure), but we should at least move on to open up avenues for future trades). The sooner we can resolve this, the better, as it's holding up our diplomatic options.
It is my understanding that our leaders have had some (rather unfruitful) discussions on this matter. I ask that we, in the name of diplomacy and peace, find some way to put these conflicts behind us. On my team, there is a good deal of mixed feelings on this issue, as I'm sure there are on yours. We, as Ambassadors from our respective groups, need to act now to establish a solid diplomatic relationship for the future.
Thanks again.
-- adaMada
Togas' Ambassador to Glory of War |
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17-01-2003 01:17
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