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Panzer32
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Queens University, Kingston, Ontario
Oct 2002
time: 00:25
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From adaMada (finally  )
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Panzer,
I apologize to you and your team for the late reply; it’s taken a day or two for me to sort everything out.
** NOTE: I've had to snip out all but the first few words of each paragraph of your message to make the PM within size limits, but each reply addresses the full text **
quote:
There are several things at this juncture that I think are needed to continue good relations between our two teams: |
Obviously, good relations between our two teams are most important to us. We want this behind us as much as you do – any other deals are impossible while this hangs over our heads. As soon as this is behind us – with both teams having a mutual understanding and your warrior safely away from our villages and children – we can begin to work together again. Partnership between our teams can only benefit, and strife can only harm. We must understand each other now so we can reap the full benefits of cooperation.
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1. We need to trade maps. |
I'm afraid that my team has decided that .jpg trades (other than minimaps) are against the spirit of the game. Though I tried to convince them, they feel that minimap trades were agreed upon by all the teams as a way to speed the game up, and that the game is too close to mapmaking for full screen jpg trades to be an acceptable alternative. I'm very sorry, but it's been put to a vote, and there's little I can do about it unless the team decides otherwise. As soon as we have mapmaking, we will happily trade maps using the in-game function.
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2. We need to develop trust for each other. |
This has me slightly confused. Though I understand several members of our teams discussed such an agreement, I know that I personally never discussed it, and I don't believe it was ever truly agreed upon. To be very honest, we don't even have writing at this time – something we've, to my knowledge, never been misleading about. This was clearly a lapse in communication – on my part as much as anyone else's, and I apologize. Though we need to keep contact at all levels, we also need to ensure that all deals work their way through official channels, so that everyone's always clear on what is mere discussion and what is a binding agreement. Roleplay will honor any agreements it feels that is has made, but I won’t lie to my team – I can’t recall any message from myself agreeing to Writing-Horseback riding. Obviously, if one exists, you should just tell me when it was sent, and you’ll have my fullest apologizes at the lapse in my memory. If a message between our diplomatic branches doesn’t exist on the issue, then we should clarify where the miscommunication occurred, and jointly decide what constitutes a binding agreement and what does not.
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3. We need to acknowledge each other's territory. |
Indeed. As I've said, Roleplay currently has a very small territorial claim. It's the only ideal territory for cities that is within striking distance of our capital. Obviously, there is other land we'd like to settle at a later time, but for now, that is the extent of our claims – and as I've said, we are well on our way to having the area settled. We will later move on to other territories, but I don't see our settlers meeting each other any time soon – we've no desire to expand that far north.
To be honest, I don't see any reason why territory should be an issue between us. We have no reason to settle the upper parts of the continent, and any cities you found by us would be riddled with corruption. As far as my team is concerned, our teams have no conflict of interest in this matter – we'd even be willing to sign an agreement in this regard.
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Thank you for your time, adaMada. I hope you will take these points seriously. |
We take these points very seriously. As I've said before, we stand to gain nothing through needless bickering except valuable time while the other teams pull ahead.
Thanks again,
adaMada
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Hot_Enamel
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Melbourne, Australia
Aug 2002
time: 14:25
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DRAFT ONLY - Everything is up for discussion
To RP,
Perhaps to salvage any form of diplomatic relations between our great nations, we should make it clear as to why the GOW have taken such a strong position.
1. In our minds, we believe we had an agreement to trade techs...HBR for Writing. The GOW believe that this deal was locked in and understood by both teams. You claim that the deal was still being negotiated is complete and utter rubbish.
2. Your claim to own the southern half of the continent is considered outrageous. The GOW are cornered in the far North with two neighbours who are also expanding North. We do not claim any land other than what our cultural borders define. To expect the GOW exploration warriors to bypass territory just because your team wants to settle it many turns later is rejected by our team.
To rub salt into our wounds, we are told that the reason why you wont trade writing is because we have warriors in UNCLAIMED land....It has nothing to do on whether the deal was finalised or not...simply because you don’t wish us to explore.
3. Although we openly promote ourselves as a warmongering team, we are playing a very honourable game. We have never reneged on a deal. When we tell you our warriors are on peaceful exploration only...then they are on PEACEFUL EXPLORATION ONLY. To claim that we are going to attack workers or settlers is also direct attack on our honour. We will not do it, because we said WE WILL NOT DO IT.
In order to reestablish good relations, we have offered two solutions.
1. The trade for HBR for Writing can still occur. It is a win-win solution. Please tell us your exact reason as to why this trade cannot happen. Your second rejection of this deal has infuriated our team.
2. Our warriors will be withdrawn from the southern half of the continent if we can trade jpg maps. Another Win-Win. You get our warriors out, and our map...and we achieve our goal of mapping the continent. It seems the RP team decides what is in the "Spirit of the game" so long as it betters them. GOW believes claiming territory that is not covered by cultural expansion also "Not within the spirit of the game".
The GOW team has offered 2 win-win solutions. The RP team has offered nothing.
Perhaps it is time not for the GOW team to come up with yet another solution, but rather for the RP team to try a little harder.
The longer these issues remain unresolved, the greater the animosity between our teams.
Once again, the GOW team offers the above 2 points.
We also offer another.
We will offer the RP team our greatest treaty. The GOW team has voted NOT to offer non-aggression pacts to any team unless under special circumstances. A non-aggression pact for our war-mongering team is the most important pact we can offer.
If the HBR - Writing deal can go through, and you still refuse to provide a jpg, then the GOW will offer a non-aggression pact for as long as our warriors remain south of the jungle. This puts in writing that your team will not be touched by our warriors, and we get to finish our exploration.
As you said, "We are going to give you our map anyway when MM is available" so what does it matter if we map your territory now.
As to agreeing to swap map maps at a future date...I am afraid that the RP teams history of reneging deals has made our team wary that the RP team will not uphold their part of the deal. We will not approve this as a solution.
To finish... if once again the RP teams slaps away the hand of friendship from the GOW, then perhaps the RP can offer a solution rather than just words without promises.
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Panzer32
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Queens University, Kingston, Ontario
Oct 2002
time: 00:25
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quote:
1. In our minds, we believe we had an agreement to trade techs...HBR for Writing. The GOW believe that this deal was locked in and understood by both teams. You claim that the deal was still being negotiated is complete and utter rubbish. |
Now, I hate to say it, but from whom did we hear that this deal was locked in? If anyone has the link, then by all means share it.
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2. Your claim to own the southern half of the continent is considered outrageous. The GOW are cornered in the far North with two neighbours who are also expanding North. We do not claim any land other than what our cultural borders define. To expect the GOW exploration warriors to bypass territory just because your team wants to settle it many turns later is rejected by our team. |
We still have not gotten any confirmation about the actual size (just estimates). This is why I wanted to trade .jps. Maybe if they gave us an outline of squares (blank), and indicated where their capital was, we could see where it goes on the map, and where we can move our warrior. If it is one tile bigger than they said it is, we um... get mad.
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To rub salt into our wounds, we are told that the reason why you wont trade writing is because we have warriors in UNCLAIMED land....It has nothing to do on whether the deal was finalised or not...simply because you don’t wish us to explore. |
I don't understand this part. when did we hear that they would not trade because of our warrior?
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3. Although we openly promote ourselves as a warmongering team, we are playing a very honourable game. We have never reneged on a deal. When we tell you our warriors are on peaceful exploration only...then they are on PEACEFUL EXPLORATION ONLY. To claim that we are going to attack workers or settlers is also direct attack on our honour. We will not do it, because we said WE WILL NOT DO IT. |
Of course they won't believe this, but I believe it is good.
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In order to reestablish good relations, we have offered two solutions.
1. The trade for HBR for Writing can still occur. It is a win-win solution. Please tell us your exact reason as to why this trade cannot happen. Your second rejection of this deal has infuriated our team.
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If the point 2 above this is correct, then they have already told us the reason.
It has enfuriated our team, but is it wise to tell them that? Would they just egg us on?
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2. Our warriors will be withdrawn from the southern half of the continent if we can trade jpg maps. Another Win-Win. You get our warriors out, and our map...and we achieve our goal of mapping the continent. It seems the RP team decides what is in the "Spirit of the game" so long as it betters them. GOW believes claiming territory that is not covered by cultural expansion also "Not within the spirit of the game". |
This part is good.
quote:
the rest of the thing... |
We ALREADY have a nonagression pact with Roleplay. 50 whole turns of it, starting 2850bc. If someone wants to calculate until what year this is, then go ahead. I'm too lazy right now.
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Panzer32
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Queens University, Kingston, Ontario
Oct 2002
time: 00:25
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We are having a chat with Roleplay now... would have posted earlier, but we are continuing now...
key points:
-proof that Lux is lying: Roleplay said they offered HBR to them.
-deals for writing for presentation:
1. 20g and HBR now for removal of warriors and writing in 4 turns
2. HBR for removal and writing in 4 turns.
3. HBR now and 60 gold in 4 turns for removal and writing in 4 turns.
4. 35 gold for removal and writing in 4 turns.
Last edited by Panzer32 on 28-01-2003 at 07:26
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22-01-2003 10:23
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