24-01-2003 00:31									#121
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" so he asked what was southern culture, while Jacksonville's great river ran past him, past the market place built by the Rouse company, which was from Maryland, the Maryland that had not joined the South, the Maryland that was home to Sid Meiers, whose games were the basis of the site he had posted to, a site where game players passed the time discussing politics, where he had often posted on politics, and gotten responses from the same ones who responded on this thread, and yet had not reached a conclusion, discussing skirts and Yankee corporations, skirts, such as might have been worn by one of those Yankee corporate managers, strolling down the Riverwalk on a sultry evening, the sun sinking red behind the skycrapers, shocked by the secret revealed by the administrative assistant from finance, the dark family secret that could not remain hidden underneath corporate procedures, underneath steel and glass, that mildewed like old wood in a cheaply built house, till her head hung down like Spanish Moss at the thought of it ...."

	24-01-2003 00:36									#122
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc That was before the Civil War or am I wrong? During the civil war did Union troops conquer Texas or did Texas surrender?

Texas was still controlled by Confedate troops under Kirby Smith (?) when Lee surrendered at Appomatox. IIRC smith was the last major CSA commander to surrender.

	24-01-2003 00:39									#123
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LotM: Love the Faulkner.

	24-01-2003 00:44									#124
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LotM

	24-01-2003 00:46									#125
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: I beg to disagree. We have always been pleased to allow our women to assume the top position and express their passions forcefully. Really? So when law school career services recommend that women where skirts instead of pantsuits in order not to offend those lawyers that are the more 'traditional' that indicates to you that the South gives the same rights to women as the North?

The first post about womens fashions on this thread. Made by you. In response to a joke, nonetheless.

Doesn't sound like you're joking* to me. But that's ok - if that is how you want to back down from your position while trying to save face, go ahead. I'll let ya: I'm a big-hearted guy that way. Almost a teddy bear.

* Btw, do your friends and g/f know that you, deep-down where the true Imran resides, take their concerns as a joke?

	24-01-2003 00:46									#126
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quote: Originally posted by Tripledoc Could somone define the geographical boundaries of suothern culture more precisely. For instance states such as Kentucky, Texas, Florida and Louisiana seem to have distinct cultures of their own. So the Southern culture must be centred in the states: Virginia, the Carolinas, Georgia, Alabama, Missisippi, and Tennessee. Maybe these states were the ones which were hardest hit by the civil war in terms of destruction of infrastructure and social upheaval. The subsequent failed reconstruction effort had a continued influence on the worldview of the citizens there. Correct me if I am wrong.

IIUC standard cultural geographies of the US trace patterns of settlement derived from the colonies from Virginia to Georgia as Southern. The Shenandoah vally/Carolina piedmont were settled by a mix of lowland southerners and immigrants (mainly Germans,Scots, and Scots Irish) giving it a distinctive culture. All of the eleven conferate stae are largely settled by these folks. Southern Lousiana is exceptional, with its Cajun background, Central and West Texas have central european and Mexican admixtures, and the urban areas of peninsular Florida (and northern Virginia) have been overwhelmed by Yankees.
Southern influences reach into Kentucky and beyond, especially into southern Illinois ("little Dixie")
To the extent that what is distinctively Southern includes the impact of the Civil War and Reconstruction, the non-confederate areas dont have that. To the extent it involves dialect, cuisine, family structures, etc it extends beyond that.

Suggested reading William Cash, "The mind of the South"

	24-01-2003 01:19									#127
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John, you've obviously never heard of a troll... and still haven't from what I've seen... but you 'bit' very nicely .

	24-01-2003 01:24									#128
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I have noticed that the South is about twenty years culturally behind the rest of the United States. Big hair and tight jeans are still prevalent. Modern country-western sounds a lot like 80s-pop, and low-fat food still hasn't sunk in.

	24-01-2003 03:09									#129
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Low fat food? We will never give up fried chicken friend.

Your typical southern male is not as neurotic as Yankees. We are not guilt ridden or inclined to conform. We detest policitcal correctness.

We smoke and sneak a beer when we go out in our pickups, which are equiped with rifles in case we see a deer on the side of the road. Which we shoot irrespective of season.

We whistle at girls and if we get the chance we'll nail one. And if we can't we will still harass them just cause we aren't supposed to.

This is why we are so friendly, we refuse to stress ourselves out by trying to conform to Yankee demands on our behavior.

Yeah, we are gonna but lottery tickets. We would rather work for six bucks an hour under the table than twenty six from which we would have to pay taxes. It's the principal.

We don't like codes and zoning regulations. If we catch a city official sneaking around our property, yeah, sure, we will whack them with a two by, but most of them boys are carpetbaggers anyway.

	24-01-2003 03:13									#130
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Hey John... is that your progressive attitude towards women espoused by jimmytrick coming out .

	24-01-2003 03:29									#131
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick Low fat food? We will never give up fried chicken friend. Your typical southern male is not as neurotic as Yankees. We are not guilt ridden or inclined to conform. We detest policitcal correctness. We smoke and sneak a beer when we go out in our pickups, which are equiped with rifles in case we see a deer on the side of the road. Which we shoot irrespective of season. We whistle at girls and if we get the chance we'll nail one. And if we can't we will still harass them just cause we aren't supposed to. This is why we are so friendly, we refuse to stress ourselves out by trying to conform to Yankee demands on our behavior. Yeah, we are gonna but lottery tickets. We would rather work for six bucks an hour under the table than twenty six from which we would have to pay taxes. It's the principal. We don't like codes and zoning regulations. If we catch a city official sneaking around our property, yeah, sure, we will whack them with a two by, but most of them boys are carpetbaggers anyway.

So backwards......so barbaric.....so......

MEWICAN

	24-01-2003 03:30									#132
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He?... This thread is back on top of page 1 again?

All I know about Southern culture comes from movies like Gone With The Wind, Mississipi (did I miss an 's' here?) Burning , Birth of A Nation and Song Of The South, books like Blue Highways, Elliot's "Invisible Man" and Huckleberry Finn and music, lots of music. Cajun, zydeco, blues, jazz and Elvis.

But the most I have learned was from the images I saw as a kid that didn't understand what was going on, on Dutch tv during the sixties. Images of black kids trying to go to school, black people trying to swim in a "white" swimming pool, King's "I have a dream" speech.

And of course Billy Holliday's "Strange Fruit", a song that explains it all...

	24-01-2003 07:10									#133
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quote: Originally posted by jimmytrick: This is why we are so friendly, we refuse to stress ourselves out by trying to conform to Yankee demands on our behavior.

A show of hands please, how many of you would call jimmytrick a friendly person?

What jimmytrick describes is not Southern culture. It's rural/small-town trash culture, and it's the same all over the US. Trash types in Washington state (where I presently live) are pretty much the same as trash types in the Carolinas (where I grew up).

In my opinion, the two defining characteristics of traditional Southern culture are respect for elders and reverence for the land.

	24-01-2003 07:21									#134
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What about disrespect for those who are different?

	24-01-2003 07:23									#135
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quote: Originally posted by Asher What about disrespect for those who are different?

I think that you are an OK guy.

	24-01-2003 07:25									#136
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Yeah but moneypenny is a liberal mississipian.

	24-01-2003 07:34									#137
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Strictly an opinion...

"Southern Culture" (as applicable to the US) is:

1. Freeing slaves was wrong.
2. States are superior to the National government.
3. Tradition is better than education.
4. The only good education is a military school education.
5. "Code words"

Need I mention that I am not a Southerner?

	24-01-2003 19:33									#138
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui Hey John... is that your progressive attitude towards women espoused by jimmytrick coming out .

You know, for a boy who wouldn't (and likely still hasn't) even tell his parent's of his g/f existence for fear of retaliation, you are a FINE one to speak of "progressive attitudes" towards women.

	24-01-2003 19:38									#139
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quote: Originally posted by AnnC What jimmytrick describes is not Southern culture. It's rural/small-town trash culture, and it's the same all over the US. Trash types in Washington state (where I presently live) are pretty much the same as trash types in the Carolinas (where I grew up).

This is so true, its amazing. The accents are the same, the attitudes are the same, the idiocy is the same. "Trailer" is the most widespread dialect in the country... problem is, if your horizons are limited to your parents' white-flight neighborhoods and your college campuses, you will never realize the similarities of people all across the country.

	24-01-2003 19:53									#140
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quote: Originally posted by cavebear Strictly an opinion... "Southern Culture" (as applicable to the US) is: 1. Freeing slaves was wrong. 2. States are superior to the National government. 3. Tradition is better than education. 4. The only good education is a military school education. 5. "Code words" Need I mention that I am not a Southerner?

Typical yankee propaganda

quote: Originally posted by Hueij All I know about Southern culture comes from movies like Gone With The Wind, Mississipi (did I miss an 's' here?)

You got the s's but missed a p "Mississippi"

	24-01-2003 21:08									#141
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I have a question -- why is it that black Southerners do not grieve over the loss of the mythic "Lost Cause" as white Southerners do?

	24-01-2003 21:56									#142
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Why are you so eaten up with bashing the South?

	24-01-2003 22:28									#143
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun I have a question -- why is it that black Southerners do not grieve over the loss of the mythic "Lost Cause" as white Southerners do?

There's a growing population of african americans who left the south in the 60's moving back. It was noticable enough to even be covered on 60 minutes. So while they're not gonna cry over the fall of the confederacy (I dont know any whites who do either) there are obviously some blacks who prefer southern culture (with its problems) to the 'behind your back' racism of the north.

	24-01-2003 22:39									#144
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That is EXACTLY what Black friends of mine have said.
Ignorant people from the South are at least open in their ignorance.

	24-01-2003 23:24									#145
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Hell, that's what almost every Black person I've ever known has said. They'd rather know where people stand than be stabbed in the back.

	24-01-2003 23:36									#146
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That's not a color thing though. Almost anyone would want it that way.
The indication was that it was better here.

	25-01-2003 00:07									#147
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT "I dunno, telling women that they can't wear pantsuits was HIGHLY offensive to the women in my section (as well as my g/f). Plenty of them said they wouldn't want a job in a company that wouldn't allow them to wear pantsuits and only want to see them in skirts." Well, they need to grow up and get over it. Everybody has standards, and if a potential employee doesn't want to deal with them, then they shouldn't bother to apply. That's life in the big-leagues and is the sort of thing one has to adjust to if you want to stay in the bigs.

No, the women don't have to adjust to anything. The employers need to adjust to women wearing pants, not trotting around as sex objects in skirts. And if any employers can't adjust then they should be sued and properly hammered in the wallet.

	25-01-2003 00:20									#148
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand That's not a color thing though. Almost anyone would want it that way.

No, a lot of people like to avoid conflict. If other people just don't spout offensive views, that's fine with them.

	25-01-2003 00:57									#149
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quote: Originally posted by SlowwHand The indication was that it was better here.

you crack me up

As I have said before, racism is national, not regional. For instance, in the immediate years before the Civil War, northern Midwestern white settlers opposed expansion of slavery not out of principle, but because they wanted their states to be free for white settlers, without blacks.

As for bashing the South -- many white Southerners seem to uphold the mythic "lost cause" and that the Civil War had nothing to do with race.

So since the war was over the "lost cause," and race and slavery were never issues, I asked a question -- why don't black Southerners mourn over the "lost cause" and proudly venerate the Confederate flag as white Southerners do.

	25-01-2003 01:29									#150
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You seem to be highly focused on the South and racism in the South. Why don't you ever talk about racism in Iowa? What, your **** don't stink?