26-01-2003 21:38									#1
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PLEASE - ONLY VOTE IF YOU ARE A MEMBER OF THE INTERSITE DEMO GAME!! THANK-YOU.

What civ do you want to play?

	26-01-2003 22:58									#2
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Carthage... I still don;t have too much MP experience, but Sperricles' and others have been making a heck of an argument about how good they can be.

	26-01-2003 23:22									#3
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I like Carthage, the UU is amazing. The problem is, we can get a Golden Age too early.

	26-01-2003 23:48									#4
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me bad...

	27-01-2003 00:09									#5
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Oh, I fully agree concerning Carthage. I don't feel like copying and pasting my argument for it from the inter-team demogame, but I fully agree. It's ONLY drawback is not so much that the UU is early, but that it replaces the spearman and has a cost of 30 shields rather than 20 shields. This has the potential to negatively impact an REX strategy.

Other than that, Carthage is phenomenal. The combination of traits is top notch and despite the little extra expense, the UU is so awesome that it's worth it.

EDIT: My second choice is Greece.

Last edited by Arnelos on 27-01-2003 at 00:38

	27-01-2003 01:00									#6
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hi ,

why can we only choose from the above civs , ....

have a nice day

	27-01-2003 01:13									#7
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Because there's a wide concensus that the other civs (unless I have missed one) simply suck. E.g. America, bleah (comment meant only about the American civilization within the game. Please don't stone me).

	27-01-2003 01:20									#8
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber Because there's a wide concensus that the other civs (unless I have missed one) simply suck. E.g. America, bleah (comment meant only about the American civilization within the game. Please don't stone me).

hi ,

, but this is unfair to the ones that want to play those civs , .....

the voters should decide , its not nice to select on some-one's choices , we all should have a choice , .....

have a nice day

	27-01-2003 01:41									#9
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Are we gonna have a runoff or two for this one? If we aren't, I'll need to base my vote on current results.

	27-01-2003 02:00									#10
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Panag has a point. Though I strongly doubt that anyone around here is going to vote for civs like America, I support Panag's suggestion. Let's start a new poll with all the civs as options, just to be fair.
After all, we wouldn't want one of our basic and most important decisions to be handled in an unjust way, right?

	27-01-2003 02:03									#11
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Shouldnt' there be a discussion thread about the different civs before there is a poll? how long until this starts, i would think waiting til the next patch comes out (hopefully soon) would be preferable.

	27-01-2003 02:03									#12
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quote: Originally posted by Shiber Panag has a point. Though I strongly doubt that anyone around here is going to vote for civs like America, I support Panag's suggestion. Let's start a new poll with all the civs as options, just to be fair. After all, we wouldn't want one of our basic and most important decisions to be handled in an unjust way, right?

hi ,



have a nice day

	27-01-2003 02:55									#13
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Egypt!

We're familiar with it... (also war chariots :b)

	27-01-2003 03:18									#14
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 Egypt! We're familiar with it... (also war chariots :b)

The problem with Egypt is that everyone seems to want it

We don't need it.

	27-01-2003 03:22									#15
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I'm considering India and Spain (India isn't in the poll though ). Commercial is nice, but I don't want to be without Religious.

So... we don't need Egypt, but who here thinks we need Industrious?

	27-01-2003 03:37									#16
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I think an Industrious civ could bring us great benefits, developement and building a turn faster! but then what other trait would be good.... i think china does well in play.... any comments on picking china?

	27-01-2003 04:17									#17
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I agree that Commercial is nice. It's my favorite trait... everyone has a trait that they hate to play without... for me it's commercial

	27-01-2003 04:29									#18
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hi ,

last week there was a game going on with several people who had chosen each a civ , but each civ had ALL the traits , try that for a chance , ......

the reason they did it was to play faster , ...

have a nice day

	27-01-2003 05:45									#19
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , why can we only choose from the above civs , .... have a nice day

panag - give me the name of a civ that you think may possibly win this poll, other than the ones listed, and if enough folks rally behind it, I will re-do the poll. I was simply trying to narrow down the choices to the obvious ones, and throw in England for a laugh. If anyone does vote for England, btw, they are immediately disqualified from the team.

Cheers! Beta.

	27-01-2003 08:36									#20
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BetaHound,

England isn't all that bad of a Civ in single-player. I play England frequently and find them to be QUITE effective.

The commercial trait is my must-have trait and it's really a wonderful trait. The expansionist trait would seem a throw-away, but it does give you a bit of a boost in the early ancient age, especially if you start out with plenty of land and build that granary quickly.

Interestingly, England's UU turns out to be more useful than you might think... in a single-player game, their UU arrives within the same timeframe that you're getting techs like Industrialization and Sanitation...

What I do is declare war on some backward civilization, pop a galley with a Man-O-War, and get my Golden Age (maybe even use the Man-O-Wars to help me conquer the guy completely) at the same time I'm starting construction on my factories, hospitals, and police stations.

Talk about a boost of power... it does wonders (in the case of ToE and Hoover's, literally). Being a commercial civ doesn't hurt, either. You propel yourself so quickly in building those factories and hospitals that you can build most other lacking improvements very quickly, boost ahead in tech and build ToE and the rest of the game is yours.

I've been trying to do the same strategy with Spain, but it doesn't always work as well because holding off on building religious wonders is a good bit harder to do than holding expansionist or commercial wonders. Playing as England, I'll either trigger the GA with Adam Smith's or with my UU.

Militarily, the UU is near to useless, but there are rare games where it's been good for me.

That said, I agree that in a multi-player game, England likely would be a rather bad choice. Having only the one good trait (commercial) and the militarily near worthless UU (despite its good timing) isn't what you want when the competition isn't as braindead as the AI

	27-01-2003 10:06									#21
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I've played as England and just totally kicked butt, in my latest game I own 1/4 of the world and show no signs of letting up. Even the Chinese are deathly afraid of me and my power....

But I agree, Carthage is my favorite of the new civz....mostly because I like their history, and Hannibal himself was awesome, so was his father (or is it grandfather?) Ah I forget. My vote goes to Carthage....

or Greeks.....Russia.....China.....Japan.......

	27-01-2003 11:19									#22
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We need to aply what we have learned from the Team game in this choice.

Expansionist- Incredible trait in MP games. You start with a free scout (move two) and begin the exploring and goodie hut popping quickly and it leads to an early lead (espeshily if you pop a close by settler). This one trait could land upwards of three or four techs on a standard size map giving an early lead (one that a team like us wouldn't relinquish... )

Look for a trait that no other team has. This will give a unique ancient age tech that can be VERY valuable to trade.

Good defensive unit. Either the Hopilite or the Carthage Merc are great units to have in MP games. A fortified Hopilite in a city on a hill has a defensive rate of 5.25. Build city walls in that same city and it defends on a 6.75! A Cavelry unit would struggle against a single hopilite like this! This would make expanding MUCH safer.

Commercial trait has less effect on a smaller map. This game SHOULD be played on a map no bigger than standard.

Religious... this trait is affected by the difficulty level. The lower the level, the less useful. On regent (the level of the Team game), anarchy is MAX of 3 turns.

Thats all for now... oh... yeah... I think Civ choice should be discussed via mass PM or some other form of secure format as vitial strageties and play styles are discussed in the same breath as what civ we are (thats why I haven't voted yet).

	27-01-2003 13:23									#23
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OMG. I hope this is not definitive, and that this decision can be revisited.

Carthage? Commercial? MP? You must be joking.

Greece? Bwaa ha ha.

OK. But seriously...

Celts, 2 move swords, Mililaristic and Religious (the ultimate war monger combo).

Iroquois, the Mounted Warrior... nuf said, except that traits are more important than UUs. They are Expantionist and Religious, another very effective combo.

Aztecs, the Jag is good and they are Mil and Rel as are the Celts, but the Jag is not good enough in a larger number of situations. Still viable depending on map settings.

Egypt, the War Chariot plus Industrious and Religious. Excellent all round early and mid game traits. That may be why GS chose them. I would say that it would be worth fighting for them. My choice for a mostly random map in MP.

Zulu might be considered as well. They are Mil and Exp. Not bad on a Pangaea. I would x them on any random setting.

That's about all I would like to say on this for now. There are some other considerations, but I would not like to discuss them publically.

	27-01-2003 18:29									#24
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quote: Originally posted by BetaHound panag - give me the name of a civ that you think may possibly win this poll, other than the ones listed, and if enough folks rally behind it, I will re-do the poll. I was simply trying to narrow down the choices to the obvious ones, and throw in England for a laugh. If anyone does vote for England, btw, they are immediately disqualified from the team. Cheers! Beta.

hi ,



this should not be the views of one player , this is a multiplayer game , therefore all 24 should be up there and we should let the people decide , the current above list only portrays the views of one person , we should let the players decide , ......

have a nice day

	27-01-2003 18:32									#25
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos BetaHound, England isn't all that bad of a Civ in single-player. I play England frequently and find them to be QUITE effective.

I agree completely. I have played them quite successfully a couple of time - and yes - the timing of the GA is great. I just wished the man-o-war had a longer life span - being the big Horatio Hornblower fan that I am.

	27-01-2003 18:38									#26
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal We need to aply what we have learned from the Team game in this choice. .......... Thats all for now... oh... yeah... I think Civ choice should be discussed via mass PM or some other form of secure format as vitial strageties and play styles are discussed in the same breath as what civ we are (thats why I haven't voted yet).

Donegal - this makes good sense. The choice of a civ is intrinsic to the strategy - and vive-versa.

So - I recommend we not finish this poll, and discuss strategies in a closed forum. And I'm sure we don't need another poll on what your favorite civ is for interests sake - although it is interesting to see how the pros and cons of the various traits compare between SP and MP.

I will contact Mark about timing for a closed forum.

	27-01-2003 22:56									#27
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America is an excelent Civ in the game (at least for Single Player.)

In the early game, America has the fastest Rex capiability in the game from:

1. Scout to find the best places for cities early.
2. Knowledge of Pottery so a Granery can be started early.
3. Industrious worker to chop down the forest 2X as fast to speed up production of the Granery.

These synergeries between Industrious and Expanionist are so high that if the Americans didn't have the second least useful UU in the game, they'd be too powerful.

quote: Originally posted by Shiber Because there's a wide concensus that the other civs (unless I have missed one) simply suck. E.g. America, bleah (comment meant only about the American civilization within the game. Please don't stone me).

	27-01-2003 23:08									#28
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Hum, there's no WW in multiplayer, and if max anarchy for the humans is also 3 turns in those games, it would greatly reduce Religious value.

I'd sugest one of the Industrious civs:

China if you want to be a war mongler in the middle ages, America if your after the fastest peaceful REX, Ottmans or Persians if your want to get a tech lead (Otts if you want the more powerful late middle age UU, Persians if you prefer the ancient era UU and/or don't want to be attacked by every human player with Knights simply to stop you from ever getting 8 attack Calvary), Cartherge if you want a strong mostly defensive UU and are willing to slow down the REX for it, France if you like the same traights, but prefer a later UU, and Egypt if you want faster Temples.

	28-01-2003 00:53									#29
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joncnunn,

I agree concerning America. The combination of industrious and expansionist is probably the best early game REX combination in the game. Industrious workers, scouts, the ability to build that first granary very quickly, and even the ability to build 20-shield city walls in a pinch (not as good as militaristic, but at least industrious starts the game with the tech and 20 shields is still pretty cheap). The American civ can be extremely effective on huge or large maps (which I typically plan on, unlike you and your tiny maps ). The only major problem with the Americans is that near to worthless UU.

In multiplayer, the expansionist and industrious early advantages might be very very helpful, but the uselessness of the UU probably makes it a poor choice.

Last edited by Arnelos on 28-01-2003 at 00:58

	28-01-2003 01:14									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Arnelos joncnunn, I agree concerning America. The combination of industrious and expansionist is probably the best early game REX combination in the game. Industrious workers, scouts, the ability to build that first granary very quickly, and even the ability to build 20-shield city walls in a pinch (not as good as militaristic, but at least industrious starts the game with the tech and 20 shields is still pretty cheap). The American civ can be extremely effective on huge or large maps (which I typically plan on, unlike you and your tiny maps ). The only major problem with the Americans is that near to worthless UU. In multiplayer, the expansionist and industrious early advantages might be very very helpful, but the uselessness of the UU probably makes it a poor choice.

hi ,

that F-15 rocks , compared to other regular jet fighters it is a real good unit

..... especially if you are at war with several civ's who start to bomb you , .....

have a nice day