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Panzer32
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Queens University, Kingston, Ontario
Oct 2002
time: 00:25
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From Zeit:
___________________
Panzer32, consul for the Glory of War.
I bring greetings once again, from the members of the Gathering Storm. I hope that things are faring well in your realm, and that the winds of war are in your favor.
As our team's diplomats work day and night to expand our ties with the team in the world, the need for a ruleset that will guide diplomatic dealings has risen. Our diplomacy scholia is currently working on such document, that will state our view in conducting diplomacy. At least one of the articles in this document will refer to the formality of negotiations between ambassadors and other representatives- that any deal is not to be considered ratified until a clear confirmation is given that the team has agreed to accept the deal.
I'm sure you see this rule as an obvious one which does not need to be stated, but still, it is our team concerns that misunderstandings might occur, and takes this step as a precaution.
I express my hope that this has not offended you or your team in any way, for this was not the meaning of it at all.
With regards
Zeit, the Gathering Storm ambassador.
___________________________
I think that we should tell them we are close to contacting Vox, and when we get writing, we can trade for contact in-game.
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Hot_Enamel
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Melbourne, Australia
Aug 2002
time: 14:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Panzer32
From Zeit:
___________________
Panzer32, consul for the Glory of War.
As our team's diplomats work day and night to expand our ties with the team in the world, the need for a ruleset that will guide diplomatic dealings has risen. Our diplomacy scholia is currently working on such document, that will state our view in conducting diplomacy. At least one of the articles in this document will refer to the formality of negotiations between ambassadors and other representatives- that any deal is not to be considered ratified until a clear confirmation is given that the team has agreed to accept the deal.
I'm sure you see this rule as an obvious one which does not need to be stated, but still, it is our team concerns that misunderstandings might occur, and takes this step as a precaution.
With regards
Zeit, the Gathering Storm ambassador.
___________________________
I think that we should tell them we are close to contacting Vox, and when we get writing, we can trade for contact in-game. |
I think RP has been spreading lies to GS and other teams.
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Panzer32
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Queens University, Kingston, Ontario
Oct 2002
time: 00:25
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I sent GS this:
quote:
Zeit,
Now that the Glory of War and the Gathering Storm have contact, the Glory of War has noticed that GS does not yet have contact with Lux Invicta or horseback riding. Therefore, the GoW asks GS what they would trade for these things.
Panzer32
Foreign Affairs Consul for the Glory of War |
They replied with this:
quote:
Panzer32, consul of the Glory of War.
I am sorry to inform you that for the time being, our team is not interested in trading for those techs you have offered, but this might change in the future, hopefuly, and we could negotiate a tech trade.
I hope all is going well, and that the gods of war smile upon you.
Zeit, Chief diplomat of the Gathering Storm.
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GhengisFarb
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I want my HAMBURGERS!!
May 2002
time: 23:25
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They sent us back this:
quote:
GhegisFarb of the Glory of War.
Thank you for your offer, now it is time to talk business.
Our team is quite interested in obtaining Map Making, and trading it for Code of Laws. However, we are not interested in obtaining Horseback Riding.
I would like to offer you the following deal, regarding the Code of Laws for Map Making trade:
1) GS will hand the Code of Laws technology the in the turn after the deal is signed.
2)In return, GoW will give the GS a 150 gold guarantee. This amount will be returned to the GoW with an addition of 30 gold- a total of 180 gold. when the GoW supplies the GS with Map Making, in the turn it finnish researching the tech.
If the GoW cannot allow a 150 guarantee, a reduced amount would also be accepted- but a decent amount, that would reflect the temporary imbalance between the two sides of the deal- between the time that we hand CoL to you, and that you hand us with MM, several turns after.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Zeit of the Gathering Storm |
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Hot_Enamel
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Melbourne, Australia
Aug 2002
time: 14:25
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Hell, we officially declared war on Lux, just because they were a couple of turns late in handing over tech.
I am sure GS would not want a guaranteed enemy for the rest if the game.
Perhaps we can tie in a deal with HBR.
They will need it eventually.
We do the deal as they suggest, however we must beome their preferred supplier for HBR.
Value of the trade is $?? gold
This is a discount price for a tech that may only be purchased from us, but at a time of their choosing.
I think that we will want to set up deals for MM now, before RP enters the market. Otherwise we could end up in a price discount war.
Lock in as much as possible now with as many civs.
ND should be OK
Vox is a market we need to explore...."we will give you this, to be your preferred supplier of this"
Another condition with the sale of MM.....
Settling of our continent above the southern Jungle border is not recommended . This land is both "claimed" by ND & GOW. A third civilisation within these borders would most likely follow the same path as Lux.
If you insist on settling on our continent, the bottom half is the only area which is not within the influence of ND & GOW.
This is a gentle warning not to take any of our lands. We cannot keep everyone off, but at least it will encourage them to head south.
It does sound like we are in league with ND though, so I would suggest rewording
I think our reputation has been tarnished with us attacking Lux. This deal will heal some of that within GS.
We should also consider circulating the rumor the "real" reason for our attack on Lux.
1. We came very close to negotiating peace
2. We tried many types of deals to help Lux out
3. But ND were too strong and were eliminating Lux far too quickly.
4. We only joined in to deny ND the ability to take over every city. We did not take into account that Lux would disband their cities. Had we known, there would be no reason for us to join.
This encourages the rumor that we do not get along with ND, and we joined the war to hurt ND more than to hurt Lux.
Last edited by Hot_Enamel on 26-02-2003 at 09:55
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Hot_Enamel
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Melbourne, Australia
Aug 2002
time: 14:25
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Thankyou for your proposal.
The GoW has an unblemished record with regard to negotiating deals. Many of our transactions have been made whereby we provide a tech in advance, for another tech later.
All of our deals have been made on time and in the appropriate manner. Thus we believe the requirement for us to pay 150gold an unnecessary requirement. Once a deal is agreed to, we will honour our part. Our word is our guarantee.
However, for whatever reason it seems the GS team is wary of the GOW. As such, as a measure of faith on our behalf, we are willing to offer some gold, which you can hold in trust, until we can provide you with MM. 150gold is unfortunately beyond our means. We can offer you 100 gold. We realise our recent actions against Lux may of seen aggressive to some teams, however we are willing to let you know the full story if you can guarantee confidentiality. We offer this to strengthen the relations between our two civilizations.
In addition, we would like you to consider the following additional clauses.
We understand that HBR is of little value to GS, however you will eventually need the technology. As such, we would like to become your preferred supplier. We can set the price now at say $30 gold.
This is bargain basement prices, and you get to choose the timing of when you would like to buy the tech.
We would also like you to consider a condition which limits your use of MM. The Northern part of our continent was cramped by 3 civilizations. Good land is at a premium and there was always going to be a war. Lux chose a very aggressive play style, and has obviously paid the price. The Northern part of our continent is barely enough for ND and GOW, and we would like you to agree to not to settle anywhere in the North. This is to ensure there is just enough land for ND & ourselves, and also for your own protection. We had arranged a peace settlement between Lux & ND, however Lux kept on disbanding their cities. ND was becoming furious, and our last minute negotiations, which was agreed to in principle by ND, fell through when Lux Disbanded their capital. We do not think we could hold back ND if you decided to settle North.
As such, if you insist on sending a galley to our continent, please do so below the central jungle area. We will provide maps to you.
Thus, the final contract between us will be.
1) GS will hand the Code of Laws technology the in the turn after the deal is signed.
2) In return, GoW will give the GS a 100 gold guarantee. This amount will be returned to the GoW with an addition of 30 gold- a total of 130 gold. when the GoW supplies the GS with Map Making, in the turn it finish researching the tech.
3) GS will agree to purchase HBR from the GoW team for the price of 30gold. The timing of this purchase is up to GS.
4) GS will agree not to settle the Northern half of GoW continent until the year 10ad.
5) There is a standard no tech-whoring agreement for 10 turns after any tech is transferred between GoW & GS. This will ensure each team is given the best opportunity to sell their tech to all other teams.
Regards
GoW
Gentlemen.... This is just a draft....feel free to edit away.
Points to consider are .....
1. How much do we sell HBR for ?
2. No tech-whoring for 10 rounds ? is this enough or too much ?
3. To what year do we insist they not settle the northern half of the continent. Do we really want this clause ?
4. If they want to know the full story with ND, we can tell them
a) Lux was overly aggressive
b) They invaded our territory
c) They renegged on a deal
d) We could not stop ND, and had to join the war, or ND would of taken every city and become the most dominent player. It was either align with Lux, and fight a losing war. Or align with ND and deny ND every Lux city. Had we known, Lux was going to disband their cities, there would of been no reason for us to join.
Regs
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Hot_Enamel
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Melbourne, Australia
Aug 2002
time: 14:25
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PM from Zeit :
quote:
RE: GOW Greetings
Honorable Hot_Enamel, consul for the Glory of War
I am sorry for not replying, I was on a vacation for this weekend, and have just returned, so pardon my lack of manners, and hastiness.
Regarding the CoL-MM deal: I have recieved a message from GhengisFarb, that was sent on 27/2 03:22, and here it is:
quote:
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My team seems to find your offer acceptable, so all you would have to do is offer it to us on when you finish researching it and we will give you the 150 gold.
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Then to my suprise, i find, a few days later, a message from Panzer32, that says you can't pay us 150, and also setting a few conditions- which you probably know (as the one composing the list of proposals/demands...)
I suppose you could say the first sentence (in GF's message) means your team only seem to agree. But then again- he also said we should give you the tech and you give us 150 gold. I don't know how you strike deals, but we usually negotiate first, and sign deals later, not the other way around...
But then again- this was probably just a misunderstanding. It's not that the GS is not willing to discuss these issues, its just that GF message made us consider the issue a done deal.
As for the proposals given to me by Panzer32: 100 gold instead of 150 can be acceptable, but the team must decide- the flexibility was given to your team, and our willingness to compromise on this matter has not decreased, but the acceptance by your team (or at least as GF puts it) certainly makes things more complex.
As for the other issues- those seem like worthy for further discussion and negotiation- why involve these in a simple matter of technology trade?
To dissipate your concerns, i can tell you this- for now, the GS has no intentions of settling the northern territory of your continent- we are occupied with our own land for the time being.
Nonetheless, all that you and Panzer32 had sent me will be presented to our team, and will be brought to discussion.
I hope this matter can be resolved quickly, and the original tech deal (we give CoL, you give guarantee, you give MM, we return guarantee+30) can go on, as only two days ago it seemed this was the case.
Hope to hear from you soon
Zeit, Chief Diplomat of the Gathering Storm.
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I have PM'd him back, appoligising for the confusion. I have emphasised that we do not break agreements, and if GF has agreed to the original proposal, then they can ignore our counter-offer.
I told him that I will confirm with GF that his message was an acceptence....(They could be taking the message out of context)...and get back to him.
Regs
Last edited by Hot_Enamel on 02-03-2003 at 13:38
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Hot_Enamel
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Melbourne, Australia
Aug 2002
time: 14:25
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Message from GS
quote:
Finalizing tech deal
Hot_Enamel, consul of the Glory of War.
I thank you for your quick reply. The time has come for this deal to be done, so i'll save you the time of double checking with GF and working out that misunderstanding.
GS is willing to accept a 100 gold guarantee, according to the same principle of the first deal. We also agree to allow a 10 turn period of no-whoring, both for CoL and MM.
Regarding the settling and WM issues, i'll quote a proposal made by our Chief Economist, nbarclay (Nathan):
quote:
quote:
We find it ironic that you are the ones complaining about a limited land area when, especially after your joint campaign against Lux, you and ND probably share more land than we and Vox do. Nonetheless, we recognize that your reaction to a Stormian city near your lands would most likely be just as negative as our reaction to a foreign city on our continent would. So assuming your representation of the situation proves to be reasonably accurate, we agree not to settle on northern Bob if you agree not to settle on our continent. We are not, however, interested in exchanging maps; we are willing to accept your word unless and until we have reason not to, and we have nothing to prove that would necessitate giving up our own map.
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This issue is not yet final, but his words on this matter reflect the majority's opinion on the matter. For the issues besides the details of the technology deal, like the "no-settling" agreement and WM- as well as other issues you have presented- they certainly seem worthy of further discussion and negotiations.
For now, let us sign this trade deal as a show of good faith, and when all sides are once again satisfied, sit and talk on those heavier issues.
I'll repeat the details of the deal, as agreed by the team:
1) The GS gives CoL for a 100 gold guarantee.
2) GoW gives MM for 130 gold.
3) Both teams agree not to trade the techs it has recieved through the mentioned deal, for a period of 10 turns.
I will gladly sit around the negotiations table with you once this deal is carried out- i'm sure you can understand the sour taste in our mouth right now- as we considered this a done deal. Please accept this offer, and let us carry on with the trade.
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We technically have not agreed to the no-techwhoring clause, so if we wanted to, we could remove it.
However, for some reason they seem upset with us. So I would just agree with their terms and be done with it.
I will try to find out what has upset them.....I doubt it has anything to do with us sending a second agreement. They have probably been getting propaganda from Lux/RP.
Regs
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27-01-2003 02:40
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