16-04-2004 03:07									#601
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: DeepO, We're cutting forests per your request, and would ask that those tiles be RR'd too ... they should be done within 3 turns. Should we move the seawall out of the way NEXT turn or the turn after? Would you be able to come back later and RR a few tiles that got missed, like the forest tiles we're cutting? Also, my team has asked me for an update on the world picture ... who has what and who's doing what. If you wouldn't mind, could you fill us in on who's where in the tech race and on what schemes are currently underway ... who's going to attack who? We're going to build riflemen as soon as we get Nationalism. Vox has offered to sell it to us. Can you give it to us or should we buy it from them? We're going to build Conquistadors and Galleons as well, once we complete Nav in 6 turns. Thanks again for your help --Togas

	16-04-2004 03:40									#602
	Get a bigger avatar today!

quote: Togas, Okay, an update. I'm sorry we're not more chatty lately, but as usual our diplo corps is nearly non-existant... the team has been quiet as there aren't many exiting things happening. Tech: We're researching Corp, and have electronics (from ToE). Further, we got Sanition from GoW. (Indus from Lego). It looks like we're going to enter some kind of alliance with GoW, but there has been little talk about this, just some kind of mutual understanding that if we don't do something, we're both dead. We're hoping that we just traded our last tech to Lego, which from now on (hopefully) will get isolated, at least in techs. ND has been erradic as of late, they're buying their techs, while in full expansion. I don't think they can keep up the pace, techs are coming at 4-turn between. They are the primary reason Lego hasn't been isolated already, as they freely traded for Lego's techs. (which were in most cases the same as ours) GoW is also doing a good job of building unis... So far, we're trying to split the tree with them: their going for Rep Parts, we're going for Coorp. Normally, we'll do steel, they'll do refining. After that, nothing has been decided yet, but we should get to both tanks and marines at the same time. After that, it won't take long until war breaks out (should be in some 25-35 turns, as a rough guess). We would love to take on Lego, GoW is obviously also looking to ND. Nothing final yet. Main thing is that GoW does not get any idea of invading us, they probably wouldn't be able to destroy us, but would seriously damage us nevertheless. Don't move your units out of the way next turn, but the turn after that (so not in 830, but probably in 840). Please wait until we can spot if any boats from others are close by. We've got a perfect defense so far, no need to compromise it. Currently, we're RRing all flat land, so once that has been done for you, we'll return home with our workers and RR all our hills and mountains. After that, we'll return for you. If you have any other things that need to be done, just ask, we've got plenty of workers, and are planning on having lots more. But you understand that as long as you didn't benefit from it, we looked at our own territory first to improve it. The forest is the only thing we can't help you with, though, we can't cut it as the game won't let us. What to build: riflemen is of course good, but you might also think on prebuilding factories (enough ancient wonders doing nothing), we will be able to give Indus to you in 19 turns. Nat will have to wait another 18 turns. We will give those to you, so don't spend money if you don't have to... the next 19 turns, you are guaranteed to be safe behind the sea wall, marines won't appear for another 25 turns at least. And we'll probably be the ones getting them first. By that time, we'll probably be in mobilisation, as it is one of the only possibilities we have of keeping up with the others... we're #4 in land. I trust this does not go any further then our 2 teams, most of the things mentioned here were not told to any other team. Any questions: just ask... DeepO

	16-04-2004 03:45									#603
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Rhoth, We are interested, and would like to know if you'd give us a deal on it. If your price is good, we'll buy it early. If not, we'll wait for the NTA to run out. --Togas

	17-04-2004 23:46									#604
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

quote: Togas, a bit of a miscommunication, we were planning on doing the tiles covered by your sea wall in 2 turns, as then we could scout with our galley if there was no risk in removing the defenders. But no harm done, nobody invaded us Please cover your hill again, we're not RRing that one yet (only after our hills), and cover the forest (chopping, probably). If you want any extra mines: tell us now! Next turn, we should have all your flat land, so we'll be gone to our hills. We'll return later for the rest. DeepO

	17-04-2004 23:46									#605
	Increase the size of your Attachments

quote: RE: RE: PTWDG Vox nationalism deal Hi Togas, We were thinking of a starting price of 300 gold or 15gpt (or a combination of the two). We can negotiate however. Regards, Rhoth

	01-05-2004 09:45									#606
	Increase the size of your Attachments

To: DeepO
CC: Arrian, Cort Haus, asleepathewheel

quote: DeepO, With Togas' absence, I am now in charge of RP Team. I just read through the turn reports over the past 20-30 turns and Togas' commentary on other issues. What I need now is some discussion with your team about plans for the future and how best we can fit those plans. I have some general inklings from what Togas was focusing on and what I know from our internal team discussions about 15 turns ago about plans regarding Legoland, but we haven't heard much since then AFAIK. Frankly, I think it would be highly productive if we had a joint planning session of some sort where you guys could inform me/us of what precisely what you're intending to do and how we can fit within that. My primary concern is what I should focus on with building priorities over the near future and knowing what you guys are planning to do is critical for those decisions. The other area of interest is that we seem to have something of an odd issue here with diplomacy. I have some ideas about how this might be conducted differently in the future with our teams to take better advantages of our strengths as well as to collaborate more, but it will require some discussion. Frankly, I'm tempted to suggest that some means of an alliance forum or discussion location or format would be helpful... perhaps an e-mail discussion (using a short list of people on each side), assuming people don't mind receiving the e-mails? Let me know about these things. - Arnelos P.S. I'm CC'ing Arrian, Cort Haus, and asleepathewheel with this PM, since Trip informs me that they are also relatively active on GS right now.

	01-05-2004 10:03									#607
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

To: Rhothaerill, Beta, Zayxus, Vondrack, ZargonX, Kloreep, Master Zen

Message:

quote: (recipient), I'm sending messages out to the leaderships of the various teams notifying them of my position as turnplayer and leader of RP Team during Togas' absence. I may also have a heightened role after Togas' return, don't know. Please send all diplomatic traffic/requests for RP Team to me for now. Thanks. - Arnelos

	02-05-2004 00:40									#608
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

From DeepO of GS:

quote: Hi Arnelos, Sounds good to me, a bit of cooperation can't hurt at all. an e-mail discussion is certainly a possibility, I would suggest chat as well if something was not amiss on my side, and I could enter the 'poly server. planning of course is not purely our thing, however it would probably be best if you could, in some 30 turns time, more or less take care of your own defense. Around that time, GoW is going to receive marines, and even if we are gearing for a Lego invasion with them, you can't ever trust them. Further, for our trip abroad, conquestadors would be superb, toghether with the means to transport them. Building plans should probably be focused to that: gold and units. In 14 turns time we can give you industrialisation, so prebuilding factories in your best cities might work well. As to diplomacy: ours has been lacking, as usual. That includes the communication between us and RP... simply too little activity, I guess. It is not ideal, however, that you acquire things from other parties which we can also provide you, for free. As much as possible, I tried to give you the end of our NDA's on techs in last PM to Togas. Horses you can have for free, coal you don't need as we'll RR everything for you, iron you're already receiving. The only thing we can't really help you with is lux. I do understand your wish to participate actively in this game, which for your team means a lot more chatting to others then it does for ours, however sometimes the results of this aren't really productive, or could at least be handled more efficiently. Anyway, It seems I'm starting the discussion here, instead of over e-mail or in chat My address is steven.bex@chello.be, please use that, and I'll include everyone on our side who is interested in following it live (it will be posted in our log, of course). Please feel free to ask whatever you want. DeepO

	02-05-2004 00:50									#609
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

From me back to DeepO of GS:

quote: DeepO, I think I would prefer that we had a chat if you guys can actually make those. Our experience with setting up chats with your team in the past has been relatively spotty, however... so that's why I suggested an e-mail discussion. If you can do a chat, I'm on 'poly's chat server much of the time. If we can schedule a chat, I'll be there. As for other issues you brought up, thanks for the warning on the timing for industrialization. I'll definately have us plan ahead on when to start factory pre-builds. In the meantime, most of our cities have already completed markets, banks, temples, cathedrals, aqueducts, etc.... so pumping out a few conquistadores and/or riflemen wouldn't be bad. I know we're running at 20 spt in both El Paso and Monterrey right now, less in the other three, so it shouldn't be too difficult to pump out a few before starting on the factory prebuilds (unfortunately, conquistadores take 70 shields, no? If so, a few more RR's wouldn't be bad to get us up to 24 spt if possible). The other issue is replacing the catapults on the wall with riflemen/infantry and eventually upgrading our cats to artillery. By the time GoW has marines, we're going to want fortresses on the mountain tiles (and probably the hills) stocked with infantry and artillery, along with our coastal cities stocked with similar defenses. I suppose GS can probably contribute the bulk of the counter-attack force, though we probably can contribute some if we have them available. The thing I most need from you guys are building priorities... beyond the factories, what do you need us to build most. This is especially important for force composition and role. That's the main reason why I want to talk long-term plans with you guys, so I know what to be building to match the role that RP team could fulfill within such plans. Anyhow, it would be good if we could schedule a chat. Let me know when members of your team would be available for that. Thanks. - Arnelos

	03-05-2004 02:10									#610
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

I've been batting PMs back and forth between DeepO and myself for a day and a half now trying to set up a chat. I'm currently sitting in #RP-GS on irc.atomicchat.net waiting for DeepO to show up, hopefully at some point this evening.

If not, I'll go ahead and play the next save anyhow. No sense in holding up the entire game just for this.

	07-05-2004 13:58									#611
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Long chat with Master Zen of GoW about tech issues...

In #apolytonisdg:

quote: Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> 4RP Team is looking for something to research.... it would sure help if we had more techs so we could research something USEFUL * MasterZen rembers offering RP techs long ago and has got no answer :P Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> You have one now Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> what are you offering? MasterZen> whatever you're missing :P Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> I have a list: MasterZen> lol Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> Economics, Military Tradition, Industrialization, Medicine, Sanitation, Replaceable Parts, The Corporation Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> We also don't have Music Theory or Free Artistry, but I doubt anyone cares about those

In #isdgfam (ah, the infinite uses of that channel):

quote: MasterZen> talk here MasterZen> Kloreep is EVIL lego Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> I know Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we can talk in here MasterZen> I offered Togas the following deal a while back MasterZen> we are interested in your Incense but we know you only have one Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> no can do MasterZen> so I suggesting trading one of our wines for your incense and adding a tech to juice up the deal Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we're riding the line between revolt and non-revolt in at least 2 cities right now Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> now, wine for incencse has some potential merit MasterZen> think about it Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> doesn't do jack for us, helps you. That's the reason for the tech(s), I suppose. MasterZen> exactly MasterZen> a free tech every 20 turns isn't so bad is it? :P Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> I'll have to consult with others on this, of course Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> but personally, I like it MasterZen> cool Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we need tech really really badly Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> btw... what the hell is the plan against Lego? Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> We've heard from both ND and GS on that over time, but nothing from you guys MasterZen> first step to war is to build a war machine Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> donegeal wouldn't say jack to me last night, so I'm asking you Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> (actually, that was 2 nights ago) MasterZen> after said war machine is up and running, we may begin planning Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> point is... RP team is interested in helping, but we need to know what you guys want us to build Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we can now build conqs if you need them... not that they'll help all THAT much MasterZen> I must consult with GS on this * MasterZen personally would prefer to just nuke the living crap out of lego Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> We just finished 40-turn reserach on Nav MasterZen> ah cool, so, which tech you want for Nav? Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> you don't have it?!? MasterZen> nope :P Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> wow Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> does anyone? MasterZen> we were waiting for you to finish it :P Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> lol MasterZen> Lego does, GS does I think Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> heh Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> I wonder if Vox does Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> probably MasterZen> in fact, we could actually really really use that tech right now Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> I'd imagine MasterZen> so, name your price Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> actually, I need to consult with others on that as well Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> geesh MasterZen> ok, get back to me on that soom Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> My personal preference would be for Replaceable Parts, but we'll see MasterZen> *soon Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> then again... Medicine would be nice MasterZen> duh, I can't give you Rep Parts if you don't have anything before that :P Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we'll see MasterZen> are you guys even industrial now? Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> yes MasterZen> is GS selling you techs? Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> We've had Nationalism, Steam Power, and Electricity for a while Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> yes Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> We pay GS for most techs Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> Vox for others MasterZen> ah, no wonder they have so much money for research :P Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> most of our income goes to GS and Vox Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> not all of it, though... we have a good bit left over that we're stockpiling Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> for what, god only knows Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> mostly short rushing is what I intend to use it for Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> that and upgrading rifles to inf when we get that far MasterZen> well, the difference betweeen RepParts and Navigation is quite big... :P Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> :shrug: Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> look, we're how many techs behind? Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> 7, I think Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> maybe 8-9 MasterZen> hey, it's not me, it's my team. If they find out I do this trade, I'll be ousted :P Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we'll see WhiteBandit> well then they better not find out :P Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> pfft... what the hell is RP of any threat to you anymore? Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> hell, we're willing to team up against Lego MasterZen> yeah, I KNOW that, but others are not as fond of RP as I am :P Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> the rationale for keeping RP Team in the dark ages has long been dead MasterZen> heck, i've been getting heat for not planning to go to war with anyone :P MasterZen> I'm called the hippie emperor :P Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> you're planning to go to war with Lego last I checked MasterZen> yeah, but planning hasn't started military-wise MasterZen> ****ing ingrates, our empire is something it never was: PROSPEROUS Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> I wish I saved the line from donegeal the other night where he quoted UberKruX when the game started "holy ****, donegeal, it's a LIBRARY!" Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> something like that MasterZen> "holy ****, donegeal, it's a bunch of universites, banks and factories!" MasterZen> I can't say just how much GoW has grown since I got to power :P Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> a lot MasterZen> it would make Ghengis collapse :P Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> well, Ghengis sucks at Civ3 Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> so that's not saying much Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> besides... Lego stomps all your asses MasterZen> well, they got an entire continent to themselves Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> no question this map was royally ****ed up MasterZen> big time Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> oh how I wished I'd joined Legoland... MasterZen> lol MasterZen> bah, I like my GoW Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> they'd kick even more ass MasterZen> even if we don't win, we had fun Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> so, anyhow... pass that whole "It's been a long long time since we had any rationale for keeping RP in the dark ages" message on to the rest of your team MasterZen> I will Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> GS and their honor code... they won't give us techs with NDAs Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> so we're sorta stuck MasterZen> honor code schmonor code :P MasterZen> GoW has no honor Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> besides... if you guys want an actual partner against Lego, you have a vested interest in helping us actually produce a military that can at least add a token force Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> it sure as hell wouldn't hurt MasterZen> I'll see what we can do MasterZen> I for one, want that damn incense :P Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> of course, knowing the paranoid nuts on your team, they'll probably say "NO!!!! RP Team will just build up and attack us!!!!" like we could Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> You guys basically just need to decide if you want any help in your little crusade against Lego or not. If not, we'll just keep drawing pictures of animals on cave walls or whatever. MasterZen> lol Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> btw... who was the one who first researched Industrialization? MasterZen> Lego Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> well, screw that Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we could use that tech MasterZen> ? Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> (screw the NDAs) MasterZen> :P Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> err... NTAs MasterZen> look, at the techs you asked in the other room, GoW could supply the followign: Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> GS said they can sell us that one in 12-13 turns... getting it sooner would be REALLY REALLY nice MasterZen> Military Trad., Medicine, Sanitation, Replaceable Parts Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> hmm... MasterZen> the others are bound by NTA Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> right Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> 1 we could get with Nav, the other with incense... got it Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we could also... gasp... PURCHASE more, you know MasterZen> the team would VERY likely agree to medicine and santation Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> sanitation actually wouldn't be terribly useful MasterZen> they would also VERY likely agree to RepParts but only that one tech for both Nav and the incense Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we don't have enough space for cities to go over 12 anyhow right now MasterZen> as per buying them, we would be very open to such a proposal Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> look... right now, GS and Vox are the only ones beneffiting from the fact that we've been building nothing but financial institutions and buying tech Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> you want some of that cash? MasterZen> he have no reason not to sell you techs MasterZen> *we Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> I think our excess income right now is in the ballpark of 70 gpt Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> though that might just be because we paid the last tech to GS off Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> ah, one of our 20-turn payments to GS wears off NEXT turn Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> so we'll have even more disposable income around MasterZen> not bad Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> basically, we're a cash cow... not good for much else at the moment Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> well, we can build some mil units Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> been building riflemen MasterZen> ok, I'm done correcting this mess MasterZen> time to sleep Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> ok, let your team know some of this crap MasterZen> I'll bring up the tech issues to the team, you do the same :P Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> will do MasterZen> --- 3 LINES CENSORED TO PROTECT THE INNOCENT IN OTHER GAMES --- Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> the tech we REALLY need is Corporation, I think Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> Industrialization and Corporation Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> factories and stock exchanges Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> man would that help MasterZen> well, if you're willing to wait for the NTA to expire, we'll gladly trade, other than that.. :S Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> GS is already going to give us Ind when the NTA expires Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> I worked out the details on that with DeepO the other night MasterZen> wait... MasterZen> GS told us they researched Ind. themselves Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> maybe they're lying to us Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> but DeepO said he wouldn't give it to us yet MasterZen> they're lying either to you, or to us :P MasterZen> either way, we got it EARLIER than they did Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> when does your NTA expire? MasterZen> must check, but if theirs expires in 12 turns, ours in like 7-8 MasterZen> you should try and get Corporation from them instead Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> Corp requires Ind Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> that's the problem MasterZen> yeah, we get you Ind, GS gets you Corp MasterZen> it's either that, or you get both from GS Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> we'll see MasterZen> anyway, I need shut-eye MasterZen> cya tomorrow Arnelos|RP_r0X0rZ> ok, cya * MasterZen has quit IRC (Quit: )

	07-05-2004 14:05									#612
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

I sent this BEFORE that chat to DeepO of GS:

quote: DeepO, We just finished our research of Navigation. We can research any of the following techs: Music Theory Free Artistry Military Tradition Industrialization Medicine Communism Replaceable Parts Of course, if you are able to give us ANY of these technologies, we would be enormously appreciative. For any that you are unable to GIVE us, please let us know who provided you these techs and I'm going to do my best to be downright annoying if I have to about trying to get some of them. Ultimately, I'd like to do 40-turn research on something not already being researched if at all possible (or at least something GS is unlikely to receive in trade). Otherwise, there seems little point for us to even bother wasting a population point on a scientist rather than a tax collector. Please advise on this soon. I'm holding the save until we can at least decide what to do with our research choice and whether to have a scientist or tax collector in El Paso. Thanks. - Arnelos P.S. I'm going to try to be in that chatroom again today.

	07-05-2004 14:05									#613
	Increase Your PM Length

Response from DeepO just now:

quote: Arnelos, I'm sorry I wasn't able to make it to chatroom yesterday, and I'll be leaving on a WE-trip today. So that's not going to be good for meeting. However, one thing: did you read the PMs I sent to Togas? In there, there was one with the eta of techs, most of which you mention here. All the non-optional techs we either have, or plan on having soon. We will give these to you, but only after NDAs run out, of course Other then that, there's a bit of a problem. Best tech for you to research would be espionage. Mil Trad is of no use anymore (we don't even have saltpeter), Free artistry is of no use, and communism is being researched by Vox at a better pace. The others we already have. (rep parts last turn) Espionage needs Indus as a prereq, right? If so, it may be best to wait until we can give it to you, and start on Esp after that. Or perhaps acquire it from Lego, but we do not want to sponsor Lego any more then we need. Allow me to check this on the forum, I'll ask that someone will contact you today, but for the moment I would assume you'd better go with a taxman instead of a scientist. At least until you can get Indus, and start on esp. DeepO

	07-05-2004 14:26									#614
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

My response to DeepO:

quote: DeepO, Actually, I just conducted a lengthy chat with Master Zen of GoW in which we discussed technology issues. He believes he can convince his team to sell us 1 tech in return for Navigation (which they do not yet have, oddly enough) and a second tech in return for a swap of our incense for one of their wines (doesn't help us, but would give them an extra luxury). Furthermore, we could get 1 tech from GoW every 20 turns to renew the luxury swapping deal. Furthermore, Master Zen seemed VERY interested in the possibility of RP Team being able to pay them for techs. The techs which GoW says they can give to us without breaking NTAs right now are: Military Tradition Medicine Sanitation Replaceable Parts He said that members of his team might be inclined to treat RepParts as being worth Medicine and Sanitation put together, however. We'll see. He also mentioned that he believes their NTA on Industrialization should run out in about 7-8 turns. While I know we could already get the tech from you guys in 13 turns, it might not hurt to get it sooner IF I could start the pre-builds in time to make use of the extra turns of factory production and the difference is worth more than getting another of those techs earlier. The two techs we REALLY need to make us more useful would be Industrialization (factories) and The Corporation (stock exchanges). Once we have those, I can get up factories in all cities and have stock exchanges up in El Paso and Monterrey quite soon (the other cities still need to finish their aqueducts, but could then build factories, cathedrals, and banks before stock exchanges). Ultimately, howver, we really want to start churning out mil units and factories would help A LOT with that. Stock exchanges would help us send more money to you guys, paying others for tech, or rushing/shortrushing. Speaking of short rushing, we have enough money sitting around and building up at the moment that I want to seriously look at ways we can use short rushing to improve our building program, in particular those slow-moving aqueduct builds. I'll be looking more at that probably before the next turn rolls around. The thing I really need to get a handle on, however, is where to place priorities, because there are a lot of choices at the moment. The main area is with MONEY. Where in most areas we are woefully behind most of the planet, we at least have a respectable income for such a tiny amount of land. I can spend that money on short rushing, rushing, money to GS, saving for upgrades, or spending on buying technologies from others (Vox, GoW, or even ND... probably not Lego). If GS could help in providing some guidance on where priorities on finances would be more helpful to your own aims, that would help A LOT. As for chatting, I really would like a chance to chat with you or with a group from GS (though you would probably be best, since you're the turnplayer right now). If we can actually set a TIME, that would be best. The other thing we really need is more collaboration on diplomacy, since I'm going to most likely be much more diplomatically active than we've been of late. I think I may have stepped on your team's toes at least once with something I said to Master Zen tonight that I didn't even realize might have been subterfuge on your part (Industrialization, that you wouldn't give it to us yet). Perhaps some of that was in the PM you sent Togas and I can go digging for it in our forum and my apologies if I missed any of that, but I'd like some means of closer collaboration on diplomacy so we can keep our stories straight and work in tandem when messaging those beyond the alliance. Well, that should be all for now. Thanks again. - Arnelos

	07-05-2004 21:06									#615
	Put an end to popups!

DeepO's response:

quote: Sorry I don't have more time to address these issues, Arnelos. Please hold off a while with trading with GoW: we want to trade that incense resource to them, but they have been not very responsive last time we asked. By trading it to them, you would 'steal' us the chance for an extra lux (they can reach more gems), and even if I know that in your case it's not nice you don't have more lux, for us it would mean a big difference in case of war. 10% of our slider is worth a lot more then 10% of yours, and you have to take that into account as well when trading lux. The tech you would be getting wouldn't cost you anything, but would cost us over 1000 gold. I don't have the exact NDA's anymore, however I can look them up and send them to you. GoW can't be far in front of us, their 20-turn NDA's can only started 2 turns before ours at most. And I doubt that. By the time they would trade RP to you, we can give it to you, so again, this is not a good deal. And Medicine and sanitation the same. Once we can, we will give you corp, we researched that one a few turns ago. Sorry to be brief, could you for the moment take the 1-taxman approach, and could we meet e.g. this Sunday? I will be back from around 7pm GMT, so in case you could be present around noon your time, we should be able to meet.

	10-05-2004 03:26									#616
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Chat between myself and DeepO of GS (finally!!!):

PART 1 OF 2

quote: Arnelos> !! Arnelos> DeepO DeepO> hello! DeepO> at long last Arnelos> glad you have your name on your highlight Arnelos> anyhow DeepO> ah, was checking regularly DeepO> yes... I am playing the turn now Arnelos> ah DeepO> so any changes can be made instantly DeepO> as to tech: many of the things you discussed with GoW can be given by us Arnelos> btw, I did a 4 gold short rush (1 shield) last turn that sped up our aqueduct in I think it was Santa Barbara by a whole turn :mad skillzzz: Arnelos> I've been working on planning that out, actually Arnelos> anyhow... DeepO> and I don't know about timing, but if anything is really necessary for you, you need to go ahead, of course Arnelos> diplomacy stuff... DeepO> yes please DeepO> first things first Arnelos> Need to know what to do about getting us some tech DeepO> it would of course be best if you improve your relationship with GoW Arnelos> yes, that too Arnelos> we would very much like to do so DeepO> that in itself is the biggest motivation right now Arnelos> they are interested in purchasing Navigation, which would be a start DeepO> as the techs are not critical DeepO> yes, but as explained in the PM DeepO> the lux deal they're suggesting doesn't do our alliance any good Arnelos> the incense you guys would like DeepO> gems, I think you mean Arnelos> the lux deal might be worthwhile if GoW has a tech we really need Arnelos> and you guys are NTA-bound DeepO> it is a 1000 gold deal! DeepO> for 1000 gold, they can give more then that Arnelos> yes, we could haggle it up DeepO> as to NTA: they have the same ones from Lego as us Arnelos> point is, if they're willing to do it and they really want the lux, we can haggle for techs DeepO> and that's important DeepO> well, yes, but no offense, we need the lux more then you need the techs. Arnelos> right Arnelos> agreed on that. I just didn't realize you guys needed it DeepO> not right now DeepO> but we need them to push further and get the geams DeepO> gems DeepO> as once we're on the offensive, we will need it Arnelos> btw... how soon can we get our hill tiles RR'd? DeepO> we will lose the Lego lux DeepO> hills: this turn, perhaps. DeepO> I will start on it DeepO> but am still doing the last of ours... Arnelos> the mountains are non-critical, but one of the hills tiles (I forget which) would be really useful for the SPD value of El Paso, I think it was DeepO> in many cities, this would mean 1-turn rifles instead of 2-turn... DeepO> wouldn't you need mines as well? Arnelos> yes DeepO> these are a lot easier to get in between Arnelos> but there are already mines on the hills DeepO> they only cost us 2 worker-turns Arnelos> no mines on the mountains yet DeepO> well, I mean on the plains Arnelos> oh, yes Arnelos> I've been mining those myself DeepO> ah, okay DeepO> we're quite figureing out all this worker stuff DeepO> well, I am at least Arnelos> of course, once we get our aqueducts done, I'll want to the extra food for a pop boost...then mine over tiles and use the sea and coastal tiles as the breadbasket DeepO> which means sometimes 1 worker extra or less can make a big difference DeepO> okay, if you got any planning on that, let me know DeepO> currently, we've got close to 50 workers running around Arnelos> nice DeepO> industrial DeepO> and with rep parts Arnelos> the thing we need most is mines and RR's on the hill tiles DeepO> okay... DeepO> I'll see what I can do this turn Arnelos> ok DeepO> otherwise that should be done next turn DeepO> fortresses will come later on Arnelos> right DeepO> no need for those right now Arnelos> we'll need those by the time of Amphib Assault... a ways off, thankfully DeepO> further: as to defense DeepO> amphib is not that far off anymore DeepO> we're expecting it in something like 25 turns DeepO> maybe less DeepO> by that time, we will need infs on those hills and mountains of yours Arnelos> I was under the impression that the techs currently being researched are Steel, Refining, Communism, Espionage, Atomic Theory, etc. DeepO> as well as in your cities DeepO> AT and electronics are ours Arnelos> ok Arnelos> nice DeepO> further we're close to finishing refining DeepO> and GoW is doing Steel Arnelos> you guys building Hoovers, I take it? Arnelos> (or built?) DeepO> we need them to split research later on Arnelos> I haven't looked at F7 DeepO> Hoovers: next turn it completes Arnelos> NICE! DeepO> and don't give this info, please Arnelos> no problem DeepO> well, it's not that important, we need factories in many cities Arnelos> right DeepO> and the cost of Hoover (800 shields), is enough to provide for 4 or 5 power plants... Arnelos> seems that you guys are ahead in tech, then DeepO> yes we are DeepO> and we're going to keep that up for as long as possible DeepO> we need it to invade Lego Arnelos> btw... our GPT deal runs out this turn Arnelos> how much do you want us to renew for? DeepO> and we need to give techs to GoW, so we can both attack them with tanks Arnelos> lemme look at the last save DeepO> gtp deal: as much as you can spare Arnelos> ok Arnelos> we have a lot DeepO> right now, we've got a small treasury Arnelos> building our cities up has given us a lot more money DeepO> but we're going to burn most of that on combustion DeepO> yes, that was the plan DeepO> we're lacking in the gold department Arnelos> we can help there DeepO> and if we want to attack Lego, we're going to need all the units we can get DeepO> that would be superb Arnelos> The only issue I'm tackling right now is scheduling shortrushes Arnelos> if I can still do those while sending you as much gold as we can, I will DeepO> if all your cities have markets / banks, please build rifles DeepO> thanks DeepO> or conqs Arnelos> in fact... it may be better to provide 1-turn gifts rather than 20-turn deals DeepO> that's fine by us DeepO> the 20 turn deals are only because otherwise we need to do it every turn DeepO> we would love you to be present in an invasion of Lego DeepO> would that be fine with you guys? DeepO> primary tasks: pillaging and firing your GA if you want DeepO> primary forces: conqs, nothing else Arnelos> our net income, not counting us paying you, is 124 gpt DeepO> wow, that's sweet DeepO> we only get something like 400, after upkeep Arnelos> ok DeepO> bpt, though is something else Arnelos> we've been paying Vox for certain techs such as Democracy, though DeepO> yeah, but that is also something strange DeepO> democracy is something we don't have Arnelos> oh? DeepO> and won't need either Arnelos> interesting Arnelos> sticking with Republic? DeepO> so once your NDA runs out, send it our way Arnelos> no problem DeepO> yes... we're planning for war Arnelos> right DeepO> and frankly, we need every tuyrn we can get DeepO> in 12-13 turns time, we're going to mobilize as well Arnelos> we're currently paying Vox 5 gpt for Democracy... I think that just wore off DeepO> once most essential builds are out of the way Arnelos> we're also paying them 5 gpt for horses... if they only knew how rich we are DeepO> that's not the baddest deal either DeepO> horses: stop that at first possibility DeepO> you can get them for free from us Arnelos> we need 'em for conqs Arnelos> oh? Arnelos> you have 2 sources? DeepO> yeah, but we don't need them DeepO> no, only one Arnelos> oh Arnelos> ok, will do DeepO> but we're not building horses Arnelos> lemme see when that wears off Arnelos> heh.. next turn DeepO> Arnelos> that's 10 gpt freed up DeepO> the moment I'll see I can send them, I will Arnelos> ok DeepO> (2 turns, most likely) Arnelos> we'll need 'em for conqs Arnelos> Monterrey will finish a conq in 2 turns DeepO> and we need conqs DeepO> nice.. Arnelos> in fact, I've got Monterrey on 3-turn conqs now DeepO> also something else: as much as possible, don't disband units Arnelos> I can't see why we would DeepO> because once the cities and hills are defended, it can still pay to have obsolete units defending flat coast DeepO> well, for rushing, of course Arnelos> ah Arnelos> they're not worth it for taht Arnelos> we don't have enough military... we need every mil unit we can get DeepO> no, but in many cases they'r not worht upgrading either DeepO> agree DeepO> for us the same, btw Arnelos> ok... next turn we should have 410 gold in the bank and an income of ~90 GPT Arnelos> I'll try to figure what shortrushes we need in the near future and send you guys the rest DeepO> did you found the last PM, regarding NDAs? DeepO> thanks Arnelos> no DeepO> oh, and we're so far not shortrushing anything DeepO> I'll try to dig it up DeepO> one sec

	10-05-2004 03:33									#617
	Increase Your PM Length

PART 2 of 2

quote: Arnelos> the two techs we DESPERATELY need are Industrialization and The Corporation... Replaceable Parts wouldn't hurt Arnelos> but we don't need RP until we massupgrade rifles to inf Arnelos> and cats to arty DeepO> poly is dead slow DeepO> so this will take a while DeepO> I know where to look, though DeepO> techs: indus is a problem DeepO> but is it really worth paying GoW for 4 or 5 turns gain? DeepO> and RP: no need to, we don't have any rubber anyway Arnelos> heh - that sucks DeepO> so that can wait until the NDA runs out (18 turns, I believe) DeepO> yeah Arnelos> what are you going to use to invade.... just rifles? DeepO> no saltpeter, and no rubber... DeepO> no way! Arnelos> I sure hope you have oil DeepO> we need to get GoW to give us rubber Arnelos> with all of that desert Arnelos> ah DeepO> but no diplo contact has been made regarding that Arnelos> hmm.... I talk to MZ all of the time DeepO> if we don't have oil, this game has turned rediciulous DeepO> you know, it would be an idea if you could talk them up about this DeepO> as diplomtically, we're still not shining Arnelos> the only liability would be that I know Togas' had a policy of wishing to obscure the EXTENT of our alliance DeepO> not that I want to say our ambassadors aren't doing nice jobs, but there seem to be very little chatting going on Arnelos> I'm not sure how worthwhile that is at this point DeepO> as to our alliance: everybody assumes total dependence Arnelos> yes DeepO> which isn't true, BTW Arnelos> it is DeepO> bah, not really Arnelos> we're going to give you our money, you guys are protecting us and providing us tech DeepO> we welcome your independence Arnelos> lol Arnelos> well, we're going to give you guys what money we can DeepO> okay, that's true DeepO> but that doesn't keep you from leading your own lives (in the PTWDG) Arnelos> in a way, true Arnelos> point is... I'd be more than willing to run diplomacy for you guys Arnelos> hell... would give us something useful to do DeepO> in that context, you guys have a lot more fun in chatting with other teams then we do DeepO> let me ask about this in our forum DeepO> I would welcome it Arnelos> the only problem is that you and I would have to remain in VERY close contact DeepO> but that's just me DeepO> and I'm far from the team, I only play turns DeepO> that could be a problem indeed Arnelos> btw... we should be trading WMs each turn... I know you guys give us WMs, but I guess we should be giving them back DeepO> well, you were Arnelos> ah DeepO> I found the PM Arnelos> o DeepO> and am copying it now Arnelos> *ok Arnelos> ok, thanks DeepO> I'm checking if any other things are in there, somewhere DeepO> (PM has been sent, btw) Arnelos> ok Arnelos> I'll get it in a bit Arnelos> (not on 'poly right now) DeepO> anything else: just ask, like always DeepO> corp won't be a problem, once we can give you indus DeepO> as we researched that one ourselves DeepO> so that's yours at first opportunity Arnelos> right Arnelos> how many turns until the Indus NTA is up again? DeepO> oh, and for counting purposes, I'm currentyl playing 205 DeepO> erh... one sec DeepO> until 216 DeepO> so you can have it on 217 DeepO> being 12 turns from now Arnelos> ick Arnelos> well, at least that gives time for me to set up pre-builds DeepO> Medicine before then, but that won't help you at all Arnelos> :shrug: it's one more tech we don't have yet DeepO> what was the eta of GoW? it should be very similar DeepO> it's not that nice for you Arnelos> MZ claimed that their NTA expires before your's does because Lego gave it to them sooner DeepO> but the most efficient thing to do... DeepO> could be, but it could at most be 2 or 3 turns Arnelos> btw... I have an idea... DeepO> 2, I think DeepO> yes? Arnelos> oh, wait, that won't work Arnelos> nevermind Arnelos> stupid trade screen DeepO> DeepO> oh, did I responded on the WM issue already? DeepO> we'll send it to you DeepO> and it would be good to send yours as well Arnelos> right Arnelos> will do DeepO> from time to time we check up on how the others are doing with their RRing Arnelos> btw, MZ is in chat right now DeepO> we're very definately first DeepO> MZ in chat: problem is I don't get onto 'poly Arnelos> GoW seemed to be doing well with RR's... Lego and ND seem well behind DeepO> GoW is okay DeepO> not superb Arnelos> yeah DeepO> Lego is doing silly things DeepO> like mining hills when they can mine plains as well DeepO> which is a lot more effecient DeepO> I mean RRing plains, of course Arnelos> right Arnelos> RR+mine on plains is pretty good Arnelos> only problem is food DeepO> as long as they have their territory RRed once we get there, it's okay Arnelos> if you have enough workers, you irrigate first... build up population, then mine over it and use sea and coastal tiles for the food DeepO> nothing keeps them from doing the same as us: we don't have any foodsurplus DeepO> we use worker pmups Arnelos> right Arnelos> that works better if you have enough cities DeepO> not really Arnelos> err, enough worker pumps DeepO> you can problably do the same DeepO> you still have one location that would benefit from a city DeepO> I thought it was on the hill next to El Paso DeepO> one of your unis is covering it DeepO> but that can very easily be fixed DeepO> and any city below size 6 can become a worker pump with RRs around Arnelos> you mean the incense tile? DeepO> let me cehck DeepO> I'm half way through production DeepO> give me 2 minutes, pls Arnelos> ok DeepO> (prolly less) DeepO> much less DeepO> was the last build DeepO> yes, the incense hill Arnelos> I could use San Diego as a worker pump to fuel the growth of Santa Barbara and San Antonio once they have Aqueducts... but El Paso and Monterrey are basically maxed out Arnelos> well, El Paso has more room Arnelos> but it will just be specialists DeepO> you still have some space there, right? Arnelos> ocean space, yes Arnelos> no land space Arnelos> using all tiles DeepO> okay DeepO> in that case, it would only help in commerce DeepO> in general, one more city is one won, though DeepO> even if it will be tiny for a while DeepO> but you check it out... it was only some hint DeepO> in case you want us to move for a settler, just say so, and we're gone Arnelos> I'll have to look at the impact on El Paso... I think that would knock the city below 20 spt until factories Arnelos> unless I re-worked the MM to shift some from Monterrey DeepO> including mines on currently irr plains? in that case, it would not be ideal Arnelos> all plains within range of El Paso are already mined Arnelos> El Paso is completely improved Arnelos> correction! DeepO> if the question would be either one less specialist somewhere, against an extra city... DeepO> yes DeepO> one more tile to go Arnelos> if you mine those hills, I'll pick up a few extra shields DeepO> RR, right? Arnelos> sorry, yes, RR DeepO> mining has already be done Arnelos> ok Arnelos> I hate losing one of my most productive tiles, though DeepO> it wouldn't be lost Arnelos> that incense tile would be great for El Paso once we get factories up... once RR'd, it's even better DeepO> just transformed Arnelos> it won't be boosted by a factory for a long time DeepO> well, yes, it's your choice Arnelos> I'll look at it DeepO> it was just something to keep in mind DeepO> I don't have all the info, of course DeepO> you have.... Arnelos> the question is the extra commerce versus having those extra shields in El Paso if it matters for certain SPT totals or for after we get a factory up there DeepO> in case I've got extra workers DeepO> where do you want me to let them go first? Arnelos> Santa Barbara-9 hill was needed first Arnelos> (RR) DeepO> SB 9... I'll try to do this right away. Arnelos> the other hills aren't as critical right now Arnelos> but eventually, yes DeepO> okay.. Arnelos> WB-8 would be nice Arnelos> would speed up the aqueduct DeepO> well, we're looking at most at 3 turns before everything would be RRed Arnelos> right DeepO> WB? Arnelos> sorry Arnelos> SB DeepO> ah Arnelos> San Diego-2 would also be great Arnelos> same reason Arnelos> San Antonio-2 as well DeepO> will try to do so... DeepO> if you've got 10 minutes time, you can know the results Arnelos> once those are RR'd, then we look at mining over irrigated plains... but the TIMING will be key... I'd like to micro-manage the timing so we speed both growth and builds DeepO> mining over irrigation: I prefer to do this first DeepO> and we've got a surplus of workers DeepO> so your workers are excellent to fill cities with DeepO> no need for normal growth, if you acn avoid it DeepO> we might even decide to give ou our workers, once we don't know what to do with them anymore DeepO> dropped a few letters, but you know what I mean Arnelos> well, your workers are much more efficient than ours, I think Arnelos> despite us getting the Dem bonus Arnelos> you get RP and Ind bonuses Arnelos> keep 'em native for now DeepO> of course DeepO> only once the improvement is done DeepO> the only reason you need workers is if you want to forest-deforest tiles for the bonus Arnelos> btw... I have a question... the timing of improvements... when you mine over a tile before us in the turn order, that means we get the tile AS MINED rather than as it was on our turn, right? DeepO> (and don't tell this to anyone, but we're going to use that very extensively) DeepO> yes DeepO> AFAIK Arnelos> I thought the forest/deforst exploit had been removed in PTW? DeepO> what exploit? DeepO> you can only do it once per tile Arnelos> forest/deforst continuously... it only works the FIRST time you forest, IIRC DeepO> bvut that's okay... every tile will do it once Arnelos> ok, right Arnelos> only once DeepO> yes DeepO> but for our territory, that's an extra 800 shields Arnelos> nice DeepO> so... if used well, 3200 gold won on rushes Arnelos> very nice DeepO> you also have plenty of tiles that could do this DeepO> but it is even more iomportant to plan DeepO> and whatch out, as some of your territory was already forested once DeepO> so won't give the bonus Arnelos> perhaps that could be done to speed up factory builds once we're ready for that... but, then again, I have plenty of time. The only places where it would be really needed are for Santa Barbara, San Diego, and San Antonio (which have lower SPT's and not as many improvements) DeepO> I think I can provide you guys with a map, but maybe you've got one yourself Arnelos> I could use such a map if you have one DeepO> very importantly: we can't do it for you Arnelos> right, I know Arnelos> we'd have to build the workers DeepO> we can't chop DeepO> yes DeepO> map: let me check for our first map with Vox territory DeepO> e-mail address pls? Arnelos> arnelos@aol.com DeepO> one sec Arnelos> btw... why do you have a galleon sitting off of our coast? DeepO> ah, it was meant as protection DeepO> that while you removed your portion of the sea wall DeepO> we could spot possible invaders Arnelos> right DeepO> but you were too impatient, and removed them before we were able to spot them Arnelos> I've got a worker up there because we have 5 and only 4 are useful at a time DeepO> it has been patrolling the area for a few turns now Arnelos> El Paso and Monterrey both complete units in 2 turns... we can fill gaps then Arnelos> El Paso builds 1 rifle every 4 turns... Monterrey is at 1 conq ever 3 turns Arnelos> well, I gotta take off DeepO> okay Arnelos> good to finally chat with you about this stuff DeepO> found the screenshot Arnelos> get back to me on the diplomacy stuff DeepO> let's try to keep it up Arnelos> definately DeepO> I will Arnelos> I'll idle in here so I can post an altered log later Arnelos> cya DeepO> cya! * Arnelos is now known as Arnelos_AWAY DeepO> okay, just mentioning that I sent you the screen shot. DeepO> I will post RR moves once their done DeepO> *they're DeepO> damn phonetic English of me

	11-05-2004 13:21									#618
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Chat with MZ:

quote: MasterZen> btw, the team was a bit uneasy about trading RP for Nav and on top of that another tech for the wines MasterZen> RP = 140 cost, Navigation = 56 Arnelos> the luxury is worth a hell of a lot more than RP Arnelos> Nav is, granted, not worth all that much MasterZen> that's the thing, we could probably just buy Nav from someone else :S MasterZen> the only option is to trade Medicine and Sanitation for Nav + Lux MasterZen> no way in hell they're going to allow Medicine and RP for Nav + Lux. First case is 190 cost, second case is 240 cost MasterZen> so, your call. I'm done with the save, just need your input on this before I hit "end turn" Arnelos> hit "end turn" Arnelos> I can't get back to you on that fast enough anyhow MasterZen> ok MasterZen> I sent you Medicine + wines unaccepted anyhow Arnelos> btw, DeepO mentioned to me the other night that they'd like to contact you guys about working out a deal for Rubber with them. He said the obvious problem was that he's never in chat (I played chatroom phone tag with him for over a week and a half before FINALLY getting him in chat) MasterZen> lol MasterZen> ok MasterZen> I'll PM them Arnelos> I figure we're all in the same boat if we really want to stop Lego

Man, I'm bullshitting him, he's bullshitting me. Total result of chat: this is going no-where fast.

We might be able to get one tech out of them for Navigation, which wouldn't be such a bad idea. Perhaps we can agree to SELL the tech since we already know we're going to get everything from GS for free anyhow?

Besides, I'd like the idea of selling GoW a tech so that we have more money to use in helping GS to shoot ahead in tech. GoW funding the GS/RP technology machine... I love it.

Granted, we'll probably only get pocket change out of them, but it'll be worth something at least...

I guess I know what I'll bring up to DeepO the next time I talk to him.

	12-05-2004 01:47									#619
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

To DeepO after I played the 900 AD Turn:

quote: DeepO, A few things to note on the turn: 1. I sent you Navigation, our WM, and 400 gold (accepted). We are now making 85 gpt, which will increase very soon since we complete 2 aqueducts next turn and another in 3 turns after that. The additional population will be placed on coastal and sea tiles, giving us more money to send to you. 2. This leads me to ask about what to do with these cities next. Banks would increase the amount of money we could send to you or have available for our own upgrades or rushes. Military units would be nice to start building. Cathedrals would let the cities raise their populations higher without having to use specialists (probably what I'll build first before the other choices, but that still leaves what to do after that). Factory pre-builds might be good to start in preparation for receiving Industrialization. 3. I moved one of our catapults on the unit wall away from San Antonio-2 since that's the tile we had covered and you couldn't build an RR on. Since that city will complete its aqueduct this turn, I'd like it to have the additional shields for whatever I decide to build next there. 4. GoW sent us Replaceable Parts, Medicine, and Wines (all unaccepted). MZ sent me a message that they'd like to make the deal for incense and Navigation. I'm inclinced, after our conversation, to turn him down. However, I did have an idea. If GoW would be willing to pay MONEY at least for Navigation, it may be valuable to accept such a deal so that our alliance has at least a little bit more money available for research. 5. I mentioned to MZ in chat that you guys had wanted to contact them about making a deal for rubber, but that you're never in chat. I mentioned to him that since it took me almost two weeks to schedule a chat with you, I'm not surprised if he has trouble too and it might just be better to PM you. I hope that helps. That should be all for now. Let me know about anything regarding the above or other issues you'd like to raise. - Arnelos

	12-05-2004 10:22									#620
	Remove this text

Response by DeepO...

Regarding building choices:

quote: If possible, factory prebuilds would be best. If that's too soon (as the prebuild would complete before we can give you indus), perhaps units. The sooner you will have factories, the better. Of course, this is only necessary where you have a decent spt, but I guess all your cities will be able to get 10 spt before factories, which more then justifies one. The only exception I see is if you can get a worker pump going, thus mining all possible plains, and count on that pump for growth.

Regarding the one un-RR'd tile:

quote: I'll try to fit it in. However, as your aquaduct will complete there even without the RR, we do have another turn to RR it, if that would be better from our side. Don't be alarmed if it is not done next turn, it will be done in 2 turns for sure.

Regarding the GoW Tech deal:

quote: Agreed. However, there is something else we've been discussing in forum, which might help. See below.

Regarding Alliance diplomacy:

quote: It will... CH sent him a PM on this yesterday, I think, and he hasn't responded yet... chat is difficult for us (I can't connect to 'poly, others simply never chat) (snip) Well, there is one extra issue: we talked about RP taking some of our diplomatic stuff out of our hands in chat, and I posted that to the board. So far, the response has only been positive. It depends a bit on how far we would want to take this, so I'm certainly not in the position to just say: go ahead, and do as you please, but a lot of interesting ideas have come forward. Are you still interested in this, and would you by any chance of some kind of framework in which this works? One idea that we've been playing with is that for instance we give you a tech to sell, and you broker it in our name. Or that we ask you to get some rubber for our alliance, and you do what you please do secure some. We're not ready yet to simply give all our diplomtic stuff out of our hands. (even if we fully agree your team is a lot better in this then we are) There are still a lot of problems to be overcome, and a lot of agreements on how we would see these things to be made (and this will not happen in one week time, I'm sure), but any input from you in this discussion would be greatly appreciated. One thing: we better get some kind of mutual agreement on this in place, before we ask other teams if they would accept it... at least to keep the public forum quiet. DeepO

	16-05-2004 01:51									#621
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Sent to Vox with the turn:

quote: Rhothaerill and Beta, Our deal for horses should expire at the end of this turn. We would like to continue the deal. If you can offer us horses on your turn as we offer you the gpt payment on our next turn (and accept deal), the deal should be renewed on your next turn when you accept. Please contact me via PM or e-mail if you have anything about that or another subject to discuss. - Arnelos

	16-05-2004 05:53									#622
	Inflate your Upload Space

Response from Rhothaerill of Vox Controli:

quote: The horse deal hasn't ended yet so I couldn't attach it this turn. It will actually go until next turn. After that though we should be able to re-attach the horses for a new deal. :-) Rhoth

	21-05-2004 02:31									#623
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

Wow... a message from Darekill of ND:

quote: Hi Arnelos, From this turn on I'll be in charge to do the turns for ND. I'd like to talk to you about possible trades. Here is what we can offer: Medicine and Military Tradition. Saltpeter. Spices and Ivory. Are you interested in any of these Techs or resources? Greetings Darekill Primeminister of ND

	21-05-2004 03:09									#624
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Spices and Ivory

Pretty soon they'll be adding SILKS to that list too.

Bastards.

--Togas

	24-05-2004 00:21									#625
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From Darekill:

quote: Hi Arnelos, since you did not respond to our tradeproposal I think you just do not need or want to trade with us. I understand that in the light of the events that happened in this game. Should you change your mind about it, just let us know. Greetings Darekill Prime Minister of ND

	24-05-2004 00:22									#626
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My response:

quote: Actually, I've just haven't been terribly active over the past 48 hours because of RL events. I did post your message in the RP Team forum, though. We ARE interested in a trade (Togas already commented on the possibility). My apologies on the delay. We'll get back to you about it hopefully soon. - Arnelos

So... uh... what ARE we intending to tell them, anyways?

	24-05-2004 19:13									#627
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Tell them to jam it up their arse.. or whatever. Go ahead and take something cheep from them, in the hopes that we will be able to stab them soon.

	23-06-2004 22:26									#628
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from GS:

quote: Togas, just a quick message that next turn, you will receive Industrialization from us. We're not sure if there won't be another option to get it, but could you start a 1-scientist approach to espionage? There have been talks about getting the tech elsewhere (ND), but nothing has been decided yet. The turn after, you will get Corporation, and one turn later Refining. rep Parts is not so close, and sanitation. But in case we need it, we can ask GoW if we can give it to you sooner. update on techs: we just finished Combustion. Please build enough conqs to fill 1 or 2 boats, ready for deployment in some 20 turns. Other then that, it would be a good idea to build rifles, Lego is at worst 9 turns from Marines (GoW also something like that, but they're waiting for our techs first) ciao, DeepO

	24-06-2004 05:09									#629
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Ah, good, so GS is going to give us Ind soon...

	24-06-2004 05:14									#630
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From Krill of GS:

quote: Hi Arnelos, I'm calling to inform you of Gathering Storms change in Foreign affairs program. I'm now the Minister of foreign affairs, and I've been told to act as your contact for GS. Now the two other items of this PM are that we are going to send you Industrialisation in turn 217(c. 1010 AD), and to update you on our plans about Lego. At the moment we are still planning where to hit them, or even the compostition of our forces. Some people want to drop about 30 infantry onto a mountain and watch Lego commit suicide against them, while others want to use the marines to capture a city. I'll PM you again when we have the plan sorted out, and more of the team back to help out. We are leaning towards an attack with marines around Quanto mechanico, and then guuting them by taking out their FP . We are still going to require you conquistadors for pillaging, but we were wondering where you had got the horses from? Vox? If you let the deal run its' course, we will gift you horses. The only thing we want you to do (on a separate issue) is to sell Nav to bob. cya - krill