28-01-2003 23:53									#1
	Official Israeli Elections Thread Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

I just returned from voting.

Go Shinui!


There were very little Shinui ballots, which leads me to think they got a lot of votes.

Exit Polls Results

Last edited by Sirotnikov on 29-01-2003 at 01:10

	29-01-2003 00:14									#2
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Ahavat Yisrael   Am Ehad   Center   Citizen and State   Democratic Action Organization   Democratic Front for Peace and Equality (Hadash)   Green Leaf (Ale Yarok)   Greens (Hayerukim)   Herut   Labor-Meimad   Lahava   Leeder   Likud   Men`s Rights in the Family (Ra-ash)

Meretz   National Democratic Assembly (Balad)   National Religious Party (Mafdal)   National Unity (HaIchud HaLeumi)   Progressive National Alliance   Shas   Shinui   Torah and Shabbat Judaism   Tzomet   United Arab List   Yisrael Aheret   Yisrael B`Aliya   Za-am - Social Justice

	29-01-2003 00:15									#3
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Or that they were expecting a low turn out.

	29-01-2003 00:18									#4
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

DaShi - iirc there's an equal number of ballots for every party.

what can be, is that some smart ass stole a bunch of shinui cards to prevent them from getting votes.

btw : official site for elections
http://www.knesset.gov.il/elections16/eng/index.htm

	29-01-2003 00:21									#5
	Increase Your PM Length

Low overall turn out?

	29-01-2003 00:22									#6
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

I am a very strong supporter of the Israeli Labor Party, founded by the greatest stateman of all time, David Ben-Gurion.

	29-01-2003 00:25									#7
	Inflate your Upload Space

Shinui can be good, but they are too anti for me, i'm afraid that if they get too much power they might go overboard.

Basically, I'd rather live with no "secular" marriage, than with a party day on the Ninth of Av just because the Ultra-Orthodox dont like it.

Overall, i'm satisfied with the current situation of the religious status-quo. Of course there are some wrongs, like the monopoly on the Kashrut inspections, etc, but overall it's ok.

	29-01-2003 00:25									#8
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations

theres still a center party - who is it ? Milo???

Achad ha-am really commie???? or is it just some libertarian type saying so. Im thinking theyre who i would root for - mitzna too dovish, sharon too hawkish, shinui to right wing on economics and too hardline on secularism and none of them focusing on social justice, integrating the Israeli have nots (weird id be worried about social justice WITHIN israel, im a Jew, what can I say)

	29-01-2003 00:26									#9
	Support Apolyton

quote: Originally posted by monkspider I am a very strong supporter of the Israeli Labor Party, founded by the greatest stateman of all time, David Ben-Gurion.

Ideology wise, they're far far far away from Ben Gurion. In the decades since Golda they significantly drifted to left.

	29-01-2003 00:28									#10
	Suffering from ads?

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark theres still a center party - who is it ? Milo??? Achad ha-am really commie???? or is it just some libertarian type saying so. Im thinking theyre who i would root for - mitzna too dovish, sharon too hawkish, shinui to right wing on economics and too hardline on secularism and none of them focusing on social justice, integrating the Israeli have nots (weird id be worried about social justice WITHIN israel, im a Jew, what can I say)

oops not ahad ha am - am ehad

	29-01-2003 00:28									#11
	Remove this text

shinui aren't that anti - tomi lapid is.

i'm voting for them despite lapid - not because of him.

	29-01-2003 00:29									#12
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

Ben-Gurion was always a leftist at heart, people simply misunderstand him. One of his great heros was Vladimir Lenin.

	29-01-2003 00:30									#13
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by lord of the mark theres still a center party - who is it ? Milo???

Raful, no?

quote: ... sharon too hawkish...

Ha! I'm sorry, but Sharon is now standing exactly at the center. He is the first Likud PM in history to agree to a Palestinian state, to talk about "painful" concessions, etc.

Just from the fact that he prefers a unity goverment instead of a right wing one you can see that he plans a major move towards the Pals in his last cadence.

	29-01-2003 00:30									#14
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

the closest person to david ben gurion, is former mapai (union of isralei laborers) member - Ariel Sharon. And of course Shimon Peres.

	29-01-2003 00:32									#15
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov shinui aren't that anti - tomi lapid is. i'm voting for them despite lapid - not because of him.

well heck, Labor leadership is too the right of Mitzna, and Likud leadership and followership is to the right of Sharon - how seriously do y'all take distinctions between the parties and the PM candidates??

	29-01-2003 00:32									#16
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Ben-Gurion was always a leftist at heart, people simply misunderstand him. One of his great heros was Vladimir Lenin.

David ben gurion was a leftist with steel balls and a very national attitude.

quote: theres still a center party - who is it ? Milo???

David Magen - a former likud member. a nobody.

	29-01-2003 00:32									#17
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

quote: Originally posted by monkspider Ben-Gurion was always a leftist at heart, people simply misunderstand him. One of his great heros was Vladimir Lenin.

That's economics you're talking about. No one cares about economics in Israel.

On the Arab/Palestinian issue, the more rightist parts of the Likud are closer to BG than the Labor is.

	29-01-2003 00:33									#18
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

quote: well heck, Labor leadership is too the right of Mitzna, and Likud leadership and followership is to the right of Sharon - how seriously do y'all take distinctions between the parties and the PM candidates??

You're correct.

Until Mitzna, avoda was centrist and social democrat.

Until Sharon likkud was ultra right and liberal.

	29-01-2003 00:34									#19
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Btw, Siro, your second post in the thread with all the links is ****ed up.

	29-01-2003 00:35									#20
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

quote: Originally posted by Eli Raful, no? quote: ... sharon too hawkish... Ha! I'm sorry, but Sharon is now standing exactly at the center. He is the first Likud PM in history to agree to a Palestinian state, to talk about "painful" concessions, etc. Just from the fact that he prefers a unity goverment instead of a right wing one you can see that he plans a major move towards the Pals in his last cadence.

Oh i agree Sharon has been more restrained than i had any reason to expect. he's come a long way. I still think he needs to be pushed along though, and that (pace what Mitzna and the Labor doves say) Peres and Fuad had a big role in doing that. I would like a national unity govt, but i dont see that in the cards anytime soon. And given that one more vote for likud(not that i can vote there - this is all academic) doesnt seem a good thing to me.

	29-01-2003 00:38									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

quote: Originally posted by Eli That's economics you're talking about. No one cares about economics in Israel.

The people who vote for Shas care about economics. Too bad the secular parties (and especially labor) have conceded them to the amulet crowd.

	29-01-2003 00:41									#22
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

quote: Originally posted by Sirotnikov David ben gurion was a leftist with steel balls and a very national attitude.

He did have a national attitude, yes, but mostly as a matter of pragmatism, given the circumstances of the times. He was an Israeli nationalist by his nature too of course, but the reason his nationalist nature is so magnified in history is because of how things unfolded. In fact, if there is one thing that we can fault Ben-Gurion with it is that he probably let his nationalist feelings cloud his judgement from time to time. One thing that is forgotten is that Ben-Gurion desperately wanted peace with Israel's neighbors, and that he took great initiative to try to do so.

	29-01-2003 00:51									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Btw, Ben gurion started out very leftist in his attitude towards the arabs.

He wanted a federation with arabs and later wanted a bi-nation state (or was it in reverse?)

in any case, between the 1920s and 1950s his view hardened.

	29-01-2003 00:52									#24
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: The people who vote for Shas care about economics.

They care about getting funds from Shas's private aid and education network.


Exit polls and telephone polls' results in 5 minutes.

	29-01-2003 00:53									#25
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

Go Shinui!

	29-01-2003 00:59									#26
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

Likud almost doubles, Shinui triples, Labor crashes, Shas crashes.

	29-01-2003 01:04									#27
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Aren't there some Russian immigrant parties?

	29-01-2003 01:10									#28
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Sandman - There is. They lost 50% of their size, from 6 to 3.

Three channels have their own polls, here's a rough average :

Likud - 34
Labor - 18
Shinui - 16
Shas - 11
National Union - 8
Meretz - 7
Mafdal - 5
Arabs - 3 parties, total of 10.
United Torah Judaism - 5
Yisrael Baaliya - 3
Am Ehad - 3

	29-01-2003 01:11									#29
	Full PM-box? Change here!

so sounds like Likud-Shinui-Israel Baliyah as base of the coalition, with Shas out.

Will Shinui sit in govt with UTJ???
Will Labor hold out???
Would Sharon use Labor for leverage on UTJ, NRP??
If Mitzna holds out, can Fuad push him out of leadership, or is labor base intent on sitting in opposition to regain long term strength (as they see it)
If they do so will moderate voters who put Shinui in moderate Lapid on religion and economics??

	29-01-2003 01:11									#30
	Inflate your Upload Space

Polls results:

First Page