29-01-2003 04:43									#1
	Moves - Volume 2 Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

Thought it was a good time to start another thread - as we don't have too many issues to carry-over, and the other was getting pretty long.

Dissident - jon and I have agreed that I will become the second player. I will let Borc know to change the names on the counter.

Do you have the e-mail addresses we send to? Also, the ones we receive from so you or I can let them know. Thanks.

I figure we should have good time coverage. I can play it from 6-7am est (11:00-12:00 GMT), and again from 5-11pm est. (22:00-04:00 GMT). And it would appear that you can cover the later hours in the evening and early morning my time.

	29-01-2003 06:27									#2
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Ok hold on.

apolyton (( at )) rutgermooy.net

tripgot (( at )) hotmail.com

replace the (( at )) with @.

One is BFM the top one, and the other is Trip I believe. Those are the 2 addresses I send the turn going to Lux to. Use the default save naming convention. Example: The_One of the Voxians, 2110BC.sav

My saves coming in from Roleplay have been from bbenton (( at )) rogers.com. I'm not sure who this is.

	29-01-2003 08:16									#3
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Thanks Diss. The bbenton one is the same ISP as me. Suspect it is someone from here in southern Ontario, probably even Toronto.

I have the other e-mail addresses, and the convention for the save. I also have the password.

I guess our procedure will be to post here if you have played the save - then we will know for sure. Or maybe the fail-safe method should be to e-mail the other when one plays. I'm easy with either approach. Let me know.

Thanks again - and for posting in the main forum threads.

	29-01-2003 09:12									#4
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Quote from Dissident from the 1st Moves thread:

quote: yes they got the encampment.

Damn. Oh well, there was that slim chance of the barbarian killing some GS ass....

On a side note: I figured I would quote Dissident's response to my question in the old Moves Thread, and post it in this new one.

Good call on starting a new thread Beta!

	29-01-2003 14:47									#5
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I usually check the save game thread in the main PTW demo forum to see if the turn was played. So if you play the turn be sure to post in there. And I usually post something in the moves thread saying what happened that turn.

	29-01-2003 17:00									#6
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OK. Understood.

	29-01-2003 23:19									#7
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I'm officially back, I dont want to play the turns so it's ok that Beta took over.

Can anyone give a quick update on the situation?

	29-01-2003 23:23									#8
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:whew:

OK after a lengthy chat with GS we have now reached a settlement- I think. I'm not sure of the exact details. I couldn't attend the chat.

We have some city sites worked out, although I was hoping for further clarification.

I think you were here when we met Lux I think. Nothing much has changed there.

The thread of everything is fairly updated.

	30-01-2003 05:50									#9
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Except I have done a poor job with keeping the FA info in the thread of everything up to-date. Sorry. Been busy with both RL and Poly stuff.

BTW - I am posting a letter I received from neu D in the FA thread - very interesting stuff - especialy their take on Lux.

	30-01-2003 09:01									#10
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2070bc turn played.

Settler with spearman bodyguard moved to wheat square - WE NEED A FINAL DECISION ON WHERE HE GOES - to the tile directly in between the wheat and fish, or the one to the south of that - but with both the wheat and fish within the city limits.

Mysticism in 9 turns. Losing 2gpt. Still have 68.

Miller Town - Barracks in 4. Question - with a peaceful settlement with GS, do we want to change this to temple to get the borders to grow? Longer build time.

The Voice - 9 turns to the next settler. Will likely be 8 as we can increase shield production by building a mine on the cows when the road is done.

Moved east coast warrior one tile north to the mountain top - no sign of barbs, encampments, or GS warriors.

	30-01-2003 10:46									#11
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we should build cities according to plan

I wouldn't have built that city now, but I guess we shuold... (I would have built a city over by the eastern iron)

Jon Miller

	30-01-2003 12:42									#12
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well you sent me 2 different screen shots. I'm not sure which one it is.

	30-01-2003 16:47									#13
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jon - remember the previous discussion on this. This is the better choice now. This city will actually grow. The other will not. If we needed iron for outright survival, I might agree - but it looks like we are past that. (Aren't we? Any new developments with GS?)

Dissident and I need to know the precise site as per my question two posts above. Otherwise we will waste a move - or we will make an assumption and go for the site farther south. Which is the one I prefer. It will snag more of the mountain tiles for future shield production.

	31-01-2003 08:50									#14
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Diss - I have not heard anything yet from jon. If you have great - but the turn is with roleplay - and I am about to crash. I recommend moving the settler to the tile one square south of the tile bewteen the fish and the wheat - so that the initial city site will still encompass the fish and the wheat. I have sent a scren shot used during the monday negotiations. You will notice the green dot jon had for the city site. That is the one I recommend as well. If GS is upset - well then jon has some work to do.

I think we should continue with the barracks. And while the worker is up there - he may as well mine the cows tile as well. I think it only produces one shield now, so a mine will give it two.

	31-01-2003 10:35									#15
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turn played. The settler is in position to build the city next turn.

Here is what I also propose for the next settler and southern worker.

the next settler should build in the chokepoint I think to complete the road. The southern worker is still completing the road to the third city. If we build on the chokepoint next, the southern worker will have time to finish the road to city #3, and then start roading to city #5. To make chokepoint city more viable we are going to have to irrigate some plains in that direction. That could take a while though, but we are going to have to do it sometime.

	31-01-2003 11:13									#16
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it is the lower site

I have tried to send it to both of you, I will try again (maybe I have the wrong address)

it is the lower site (Beta, the one we wanted at first)

Jon Miller

	31-01-2003 18:07									#17
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Diss - I was thinking the same thing about the chokepoint city and irrigation. Especially now that agreement is reached about the south.

I also think we need another worker. After barracks, how about one for Miller Town - the pop should be up, and production should be pretty good.

I suggest the nothern worker 1) mines the cows, and then 2) the two road squares around miller town, 3)connect the luxury, and then 4) join the Miller Town worker, who will be produced by then, in building the irrigation system down to chokepoint - er - Elipolis.

Elipolis has one plains square to start with, so we have a few turns to get there with the irrigation.

	31-01-2003 18:18									#18
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quote: Originally posted by Eli I'm officially back, I dont want to play the turns so it's ok that Beta took over. Can anyone give a quick update on the situation?

Eli - BTW - I forgot to say - WELCOME BACK!!!!


(I think you were concerned we weren't going to call the chokepoint city Elipolis. )

	01-02-2003 04:14									#19
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City Build Queues

I was doing some review and analysis of the two cities.

The Voice is scheduled to build a settler in 4 turns, but won't grow until pop size 3 for another seven. That would waste some 18 shields.

Here is the shield production for The voice - turn by turn - for the next two pop points

1-4
2-4
3-4 Mine completed on cows square
4-5
5-5
6-5
7-5
Total 32 shields

1 thru 7 - 6 shields each (next pop point works enhanced grassland square)
Total 42 shields

If we switched to a temple now - we would have 44 shields remaining. Followed by a settler - 30 shields. Total 74. Which equals exactly the next 14 turns worth of production. No loss of shields what so ever. And the Capitol will be at size 2 when done.

The current approach will see the waste of 18 shields, and will clearly not allow us to build the temple in the next 7 turns after that.

We will need to move a warrior in for disorder control for the seven turns, or until the lux is hooked up, but I still recommend against that. Mines should be the priority.

Miller town

Barracks in 3. Growth in 8. I looked at the rush build options. Nothing works. Suggest we either finish the barracks, or convert it to a temple as well. Miller town - with the barracks completed - will produce 16 shields prior to the next pop growth. (The worker should start mining the two road-plains square after the cows square.) Possible spearmen, then worker?

Or, we have stockpiled 33 shields in the barracks. We will produce another 16 with this pop point growth, and 48 with the next - presuming the two road tiles are mined after cows. That is 97 shields. Which could be a temple, then settler - and we would only waste 7. And have a size 2 city remaining. There is no corruption in Miller Town now. I expect there will be none in the short term.

That combined plan would result in two settlers - one in 14 turns, and one in 20 - and two temples built - and both cities at size 2.

Once Dissidentville is built, I will do a similar analysis on build options. I have to see what kind of corruption we are going to get first. It will obviously need to concentrate on growth to start with. It will reach size 3 in 14 turns as well - just not sure if there will be enough shields for a settler by then.

The decision on the Voice is fairly obvious. For Miller Town we have some choice - and it depends how high barracks are on the agenda right now. Personally - I wouldn't mind a couple of early temples and build up the culture. We are still a few turns away from hooking up the iron - so even if we did have the barracks - we wouldn't be able to produce vet Immortals. And with the GS threat subsiding (we do all believe this don't we) then we can focus on growth for the next while.

Your thoughts please.

Last edited by Beta on 01-02-2003 at 04:40

	01-02-2003 13:13									#20
	Increase Your PM Length

whew! too late to check all that math.

But I do want to bump to decide. I have changed production of the cities. But that is not set in stone. No shields wasted. we have a couple of turns to decide.

New city up. Right now it is working on a settler.

	01-02-2003 13:30									#21
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screenshot?

Jon Miller

	03-02-2003 00:11									#22
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1950bc move played by me.

Moved chokepoint warrior onto road so he cam make the southern point of land two turns from now.

Also moved the lookout warrior south of Dissidentville on his way to the wheat tile. He will be there in three turns from now to provide protection for the worker - who is finished in 3 more turns. The warrior currently protecting him should then move back to the chokepoint - why - I'm getting there - so that the spearman can hustle north to either Miller Town or the Voice. In 5 turns the voice expands to size 3, and in 6 miller town expands. We can use the spearman and the GoW contact warrior to keep order until the worker can hook up the luxury - which comes after two mines need to be built and after both expand to size 3 - and then when both cities produce temples, we will be fine. Settlers will be produced after that, so the pops will drop back to 2 and we should be fine. With the luxury hooked up and a temple in each, we can manage a population of four before we need garrisons.


I moved Dissidentville production to worker - but I need to mod some scenarios to see what works best. And corruption is still an unknown. I fear the next shield will be wasted there.

Moved the slider back to 70%. Still gets Mysticism done in 4 turns, and produces plus 1 gold.

Re-checked the math on the temple and settler builds in the two cities - unless I am fooled by the corruption formula, we should be OK as planned.

(and still I still haven't tried screen shots yet...)

	03-02-2003 11:50									#23
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I still don't think our cities will get disorder at size 3. I heard from another team they do not get disorder at size 3.

	03-02-2003 18:48									#24
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I assumed that they would. We are playing at regent - but I will check this evening. If not - great.

	03-02-2003 22:56									#25
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well it says custom for the difficulty level.

What we can do is move a unit in our city when it is size 3. Then when the city is size 3 we move the unit out and check. I may try to find an old save to verify this. It will have to wait until tonight though.

	03-02-2003 23:04									#26
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well it says custom for the difficulty level.

What we can do is move a unit in our city when it is size 3. Then when the city is size 3 we move the unit out and check. I may try to find an old save to verify this. It will have to wait until tonight though.

	04-02-2003 06:06									#27
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1910bc turn played.

northern worker moved to roaded plains tile to work on mine next turn.

warrior one tile away from the southern of the two points to yell across to GoW.

Southern lookout warrior on his way ti wheat as per earlier note.

Slider to 70% I think. myst in 3 turns. Still 1gpt.

Did some playing around with Miller Town to see what our options are. We can move the citizen currently working the lake (2 food 2gold) to the non-roaded woods square to the NE (1 food 2 shields).

This boosts shiled production, but slows city groth considerably. The options are:

Previous scenario (which will include mining the roaded plains tiles)

-in 15 turns - we can produce a temple, another spearman, a settler, and leave the town at pop 2.

Or, with the new scenario, maximizing shield production at the expense of food:

- in 10 turns - we can produce a temple, a settler, and leave the town at pop 1. This also puts us into negative gpt situation to maintain the same research rate as we lose 2 gold.

I opted for the first scenario. Pop 2 is a key factor. It takes 10 turns for Miller Town to grow - that is a lot of lost production (10 - 20 shields plus gold) for the one pop point. The spearman is a bonus. Downside is the settler is 5 turns later.

And we need to find out about the pop3 and disorder - maybe we should simply ask another team - GS?

Left Dissidentville as is - I want to get another shield production and see if we lose it to curruption - which is my guess. Priority should be to hook the town up to the road network - this significantly effects corruption.

	04-02-2003 06:20									#28
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Isn't Dissidentville already hooked up to the empire via the road network in place? If it isn't, then yes, I agree - hook it up.

	04-02-2003 12:35									#29
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Not hooked up yet. We need to road the wheat square- last square to dissidentville.

And we still have a gap at the chokepoint. I would like to make chokepoint city our next.

	04-02-2003 17:49									#30
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I agree with Dissident- Elipolis goes in next on the chokepoint.