07-07-2003 21:49									#151
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Any idea of when Vox will be done engineering? I want to know when we can start invention... our golden age will speed up the production of the Great Library remember (of course it will also speed up research I think).

	08-07-2003 07:42									#152
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had a quickey chat with Beta, nothing important except that Vox gets Engineering in 4 turns.

* Panzer32 is relieved

So we can start invention soon; maybe even get our capital in on our GA!!

	06-08-2003 10:04									#153
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Message from Beta.

quote: Hi H_E! How's life at GoW? Somewhat interesting I presume. Listen - our best wishes to you and MZ and Panzer and the rest of the crew. We have avoided wading into the fray, but it all seems very familiar to us. GS' self-righteous attitude, and their easily-hurt feelings, get to be a bit much. You guys are doing a great job in the public forum. Keep it up. I, for one, am loving it!!! Any more city investigations you want us to do? BTW - we could use some cash on the money you owe us. We still owe Lego money from before, and they would like repayment as well. If you want - you can send 70 gold directly to them to pay off our remaining loan, instead of it going through us. If you want to discuss repayment terms, given the current sitiuation, just let us know. And in case it is not clear - we are pulling for you and ND!!! Oh - for a half dozen caravels and a stack of knights and immortals.... RP told us they got engineering from GS. We were trying to string them along on another deal - and then zip - they had it. Since then - we have not chatted with them at all. Nor with GS. Our civilization is redeveloping. Three new cities formed last turn. Another 3 this turn. It will take some time to get productive, and we figure it is best if we lay low lie for awhile. Regarding techs - a little birdie told us that we should discuss invention with you. Can we negotiate a deal of some sort? We are currently researching the printing press, although it will be some time before we are finished it. That's about it for now. Take care guys, and good luck with the war! And with the PR campaign. Sincerely ... Beta ... off in the Hinterland of Legos Minor (now Voxtavia).

It sucks that RP got engineering...crossing rivers would slow them up.

It also means we can expect GS to gift RP Chivalry, money & horses. When does our no-trade clause end with GS ?

I will contact Beta...perhaps we need to clarify their position with Lego. I assumed they were Lego2, but if they are running independantly, then we need to keep them in the loop. If they are trading with GS & RP, then we have to let them know of our embargo plans. I will suss out the situation first though.

Also..I dont know anything about any money we owe them ??
Can someone please confirm. Also, if we do owe them, then I suggest we offer to pay Lego back directly. With the current Lego/ND/GoW arrangement, Lego might be in the mood to just forget about it.

Regs

	06-08-2003 10:23									#154
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AFAIK we paid them all our debts, Panzer should know precisely.

	06-08-2003 18:30									#155
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quote: It also means we can expect GS to gift RP Chivalry, money & horses. When does our no-trade clause end with GS ?

Well we've only seen one RP horse that they could upgrade... so maybe the info that they prefer MIs and Pikes is completely true.

No trade clause... can't say for certain but it will be done soon. If someone cares enough, look it up.

I am not aware of any money owing to Vox. Please ask them about it.

	07-08-2003 08:04									#156
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Beta has been busy ...

I sent this..

quote: Hey Beta .. Just a quick reply. I wasnt aware that we owed you any money. I posted on the forum, and Panzer has only just responded that he doesnt know anything about it as well. Dont worry .. Its not unusual for us to forget about these things. Can you let us know what we owe and what for. War news. GS is a pain We are yet to find a single unit to kill to start up our GA. Both RP & GS are quite happy to hole up in their walled cities. ND have had far better success than us, although they do have a GA, and can send in reinforcements pretty quickly. We will let you know if we need investigations. Plans this turn almost definately dont require it. We are manouvering troops . Invention will be around soon - 6 turns I think. Obviously, the war has caused us to choose our trading partners closely. We are attempting to negotiate a trade embargo against RP/GS. GS see grabbing Bob land as their only hope in winning the game. Hopefully, they will also see a trade embargo against them as ensureing they will lose the game. So the ideas being tossed around are a trade embargo until the get off bob. We have talked to Lego, and are discussing the idea. What is you exact relationship with Lego & RP/GS. Are you still trading etc etc ... And I guess are you interested in the embargo, if we can get support from Lego ? Sounds like the exodis has worked out well for you. Did I see one of your cities return to your ownship a few turns back ? What happened there ? Anyway .. keep in touch .. Tell us what we owe and what for. We too are "borrowing" from Lego, so maybe we can repay Lego back direct for you, and get them to add it to whatever we owe them. Regards Hot_Enamel of the GoW

Beta reaponse

quote: Hi H_E. Thanks for the response. I will check as to the amount. It got confusing with the first investigation because MZ sent the luxury - and we do not need it for a number of turns yet. And, I know Lego wants hard cash - so we should probably repay them directly. We are close to Lego. We were before the exodus, and we are even more so now. We have no problems with the proposed embargos, and would honor them if the 'alliance' goes that way. ' As part of of the Voxodus deal, GS tried to get us to sign a 'friends and trading partners for life' deal, including no embargos, but we refused to sign it. It was dropped from the final deal. I will need to go back and revisit the exact wording with GS, but I don't belive our deal precludes us from anything you are proposing. And believe me - we are chomping at the bit to get back into it. It will be quite awhile before we can help militarily. We have had no official dealings or even conversations with GS or RP. They pretty much ignore us. Lego and Vox stay in touch pretty regularly. We have agreed to lay low for awhile. Yes - the Voxodus is working well. We will soon have a larger civilization - in terms of number of cities - than we had on Estonia. It is fun rebuilding - almost as much fun as the public forum fireworks. There was a quick exchange of cities with GS right at the time of the exodus to teleport our units - but since then - there has been no transfer of cities. Someday - we hope. When we get astronomy - we can reach North Estonia by sea very quickly. Anyways - I will check on the amount owing - and our deal with GS. Take care - hope you get into the thick of the war soon. ... Beta.

	07-08-2003 08:06									#157
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He also sent this, regarding the money ..

quote: Hi H_E! Harry pointed me to a post I had sent MZ: quote: Hi MZ! Very entertaining times. Nothing like the start of a war to spice up the forum. Our team is on-side with the alternate deal NOT to provide engineering to RP. Essentialy they, RP, cancelled the original deal - and tried to renegotiate - because of cash shortages - so we are somewhat OK with this. We also think it would be somewhat two-faced to do our 'spying' deal with you - but then to trade engineering to RP when it will help them in the war. So - 40 gold, plus a tech, plus a lux for 20 turns - that was what we discussed. We are OK with it. Are you? Please let me know. Thanks. If yes - that will be 35 gold for the original way-back-when deal, 80 for the Toledo investigation, and 40 for the RP-cancellation deal .... cash register rings it up - cha ching - 155 gold. But no luxes for awhile. Thanks. All the best with the war! Regards ....Beta. The issue may have been that MZ sent the deal with the cash - but it included the lux which we cannot use for awhile. And the deal was that we would set the period we were to receive it for. I informed MZ and did not accept the deal, but the cash was never re-offered. We did get the 40 gold for the cancellation of the RP deal, but not the 35 for engineering, or the 80 for the investigation. You can check the saves, but we are pretty sure about this. Let me know how you want to handle it. Thanks. Much appreciate it. ... Beta.

Panzer/MZ .. can you check what has happened.
Respond direct to Beta if you want.

	07-08-2003 08:10									#158
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And finally ... I got some details of their agreement with GS to let them live :

Basically,
1. They had to give GS Engineering
2. They have to sell their next free tech to GS at a fair rate.

GS wanted a "friends & trade for life" clause, but Beta refused.

Beta seems fine with the embargo against GS...other than their free tech.

	10-08-2003 11:09									#159
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Message from Beta

quote: Hi H_E. Trust all is well with GoW. We have rechecked the turns and you do owe us 115 gold. You may recall the turn - or I'm sure MZ will - where you sent the 115 gold, plus the luxury, but we did not accept. The 115 consisted of 35 for engineering, and 80 for the first city investigation. But we did not accept as we do not need the luxury now, and it was agreed that we could ask for it at a future time. If the 115 as a lump sum is a problem, you can break it up over a couple of turns or something like that. We really could use the cash though - as we need to buy some city improvements to get our civ back up and running. Thanks. Trust the war is going well. Stay in touch. All the best ... Beta.

Panzer .. can you please check this. GS are throwing mud at us, and its not the right time to start an argument with a future allie regarding non-payment of gold.

	10-08-2003 18:28									#160
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I looked into this, and it is false. Look at the 30bc save and the turn report. We accepted engineering for 35 gold and 80 gold. Also, looking at the 30 and 10bc saves, you can see that we lost about 100g somewhere, including gaining about 45 or so gpt for 30bc and losing 10gpt for 10bc. Thats what I found. Please tell Vox to review their monetary status around 50bc to 30bc (because they're after us in the turn order).

	10-08-2003 19:37									#161
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Thanks Panzer...

I followed the above, and also get the same.
I have emailed Beta

Regs

	12-08-2003 04:04									#162
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Issue has been resolved :-

quote: H_E- this is strange. But good news for you. We have worked out the math, and we did receive the 115 gold, in the same way that the calculation from your end indicates that it did get paid. So we are all square. The strange part is that we can't figure out how the deal happened. The cash does show up in our treasury to start the next turn. And the two diplo moves I made were to send the 115 gold AND wines back to you unaccepted (we didn't get enegineering until later that same turn - given the way the turn works) and later I sent engineering accepted, by itself. So what Harry and I are trying to figure out is how you were able to add the gold to the deal, and still have it shown as accepted by us. Here it is in other words - excerped from our forum. My inquiry followed by Harry's response quote: So - it looks like it did happen - I just don't know how. I don't know how either. I checked the 50 BC save you sent. It starts up with a trade deal from GoW containing 85 gold, wines, and 30 more gold. The deal is unaccepted. We do not have engineering yet so we can not put that on the deal. The game will not let you skip the deal to come back to it later. You must respond, so what I said about modifying the deal is not right. After the GoW trade the deal from Lego with Theology comes up. Then the game goes through the city stuff and we get engineering. The only thing I can think of is that we sent a deal for engineering accepted and then GoW modified the deal to add gold, and maybe the game figures that if you accepted nothing that accepting more must be OK so it leaves it accepted and GoW completes the deal. Sometime if I find the time I might try to setup a scenario to verify if this is possible. Whether that is how it happened or not, the money works out to show that we did get paid. So - can you verify that when you open that turns save, what deal is on the table, or what you did (if anything) other than accept to make the deal work. Obviously no rush on this - but it is an interesting study in the game mechanics. Sorry to bug you guys when you had in fact paid up. It was the way that it happened that confused us. But the math and pluses and minuses verify that we did receive it. Looking forward to getting to the bottom of this... regards ...Beta.

	12-08-2003 04:13									#163
	Got spare money?

I think what they did was accepted the 80g and 35g and then later sent engineering accepted - so they were really seperately sent deals that we made.

	23-09-2003 15:28									#164
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From Beta

quote: HI HE. Yes, I got his message. We have been sleeping on Vox for awhile. Actually, we are about to invade as part of a combined, GS, Lego, Vox initiative to finish off the warmongers and their demogyptican allies. hehe. No - we have been hibernating. I will get back to Aggie this evening. GS might now up the ante for us to invade little Bob. Congrats on your victory. And I think you are doing the right thing keeping it quiet. GS doesn't react well otherwise. Thanks for the heads up. Will contact Aggie. If you chat with him before I do - pass on my apologies. ...Beta.

I told him we had a minor victory over GS.

	02-10-2003 08:42									#165
	Got spare money?

Message from Rhothaerill from Vox

quote: Hi H_E, Just checked on Pamplona from last turn. It was 166 gold to investigate the city. That is unfortunately out of our league at the moment so if you do desire us to do the investigation in the future we will have to ask for the gold up front. Good luck in your war.

	02-10-2003 18:37									#166
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Well done HE, today in chat we can figure when we'll need it. I imagine we can wait till after next turn, but if we see increased forces north of Alamo, we might do it this turn.
Aggie

	02-10-2003 21:06									#167
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Maybe ND can help out with the bill a bit?

	15-12-2003 12:15									#168
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just got this from Vox:

quote: Greetings to Aggie, Master Zen and the many fine people of Glory of War, We of Vox Controli now live in a harsh land. The rock known as Voxtavia is an unforgiving land mass and only our beaches and great fishing industry have sustained us. But the people of Voxtavia are hardy. We survive and now thrive. We have been working on a project that might interest the people of Glory of War. By necessity, much of our population consists of fishermen and mountain men, but a new generation of us have begun to study the few books we were able to bring with us. The desire for wider distribution of these books is leading us to develop a process of printing on a special press. No longer will our few scribes be forced to work day and night to produce our books. Perhaps in a few more years, once we have perfected the process we would be able to share our printing press techniques with the people of Glory of War in exchange for knowledge we do not possess. Best regards to Glory of War Rhothaerill on behalf of Vox Controli P.S. in simple terms, we will have printing press in several more turns and would be willing to trade it with you then for tech. If you would like to make an offer I will discuss it with the rest of my team. Thanks.

My reply:

quote: Greetings from The Glory of War™ Our greatest sages and intellectuals (in other words like 2 or 3 guys) have been most astounded by this news of the impressive educational acheivements of the Voxian people. We are sure that such an invention might lead to books being accessible to our people on a grander scale and perhaps increase the commoner's vocabulary to something more than "Ugh, squid stink", "Bubba, you smell", and "Die chicken". In other words, I'll see what the team thinks -MZ

Well, there's really no need to have Printing Press for us (since we've already forfeited JS Bach's anyway) however, I think it's rather important to have Vox on hand on VERY good terms since its once of those teams that you know you'll end up needing sooner or later for some vile dastardly deed.

Is there something (tech?) we can offer them that isn't "strategic"?

	15-12-2003 14:29									#169
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What techs do they got anyway?

	15-12-2003 20:14									#170
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they don't have chivalry or invention.

	15-12-2003 21:28									#171
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What is there relationship with Lego? I would prefer trading them a tech that Lego doesn't need if possible, but I think that applies to both of the above.

	16-12-2003 06:46									#172
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what about one that lego already has?

	16-12-2003 11:50									#173
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Lego already has both Chi and Invent. I think our course of action should be to contact lego about this. They might want to keep these techs from them for their own reasons.

	10-01-2004 07:42									#174
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Beta> Listen - while you're here - can we talk Vox-Go?
Beta> GoW
Panzer32> I guess... for a bit
Panzer32> I don't know a lot but you can tell me stuff
Beta> K - Rhoth tells me you guys still owe some cash.
Panzer32> really? I thought we didn't... what for?
Beta> Also - we would like to start receiving the luxury as part of the past deal this turn - if you can make that point clear to whoever is playing.
Panzer32> nuts... Aggie already played the turn
Panzer32> (but not sent on)
Beta> Ummm - I think it was half the cash for an investigation we did. Rhoth knows the details.
Panzer32> get him to PM Aggie and MZ about it... I think Aggie would know the most about it.
Beta> The lux is more important than the cash at this point. He may have already taken care of it. The cash discussion can wait for later.
Beta> Also - we would like to cut a deal for printing press. I think Rhoth sent on a message to this effect. We do not need Chivalry.
Beta> Cash or an extension of the luxury deal would be fine by us.
Beta> Probably some combination of both.
Beta> Ok - will do.
Beta> Now - a question going back awhile - and since we are the only two here...
Panzer32> what of invention?
Beta> one sec
Beta> Got it. Thanks.
Panzer32> oh
Beta> Or I should say - it is on its way.
Beta> OK - my question.
Panzer32> I dunno what the team would say but gunpowder?
Panzer32> shoot
Beta> What happened with the GoW landing on GS way back when? Did GF screw it up on purpose, was it part of a deal with GS, or was it an honest attempt gone bad?
Panzer32> we had 2 horsemen, we landed on hills next to an undefended city, it was the best chance we had
Beta> So an honest attempt?
Panzer32> yes
Beta> K - thanks. You know...
Panzer32> in retrospect maybe we should have gone 1 turn further south
Beta> that move cost us dearly. We moved from the mountains to try and cover you - and in the end - both of us got zapped.
Beta> yes - further south would have been better. Bu then - we can say the same about our landing on their eats coast.
Beta> east
Beta> And that move, coupled with the trade for feudalism, left us very much questioning what was going on with you folks.
Panzer32> right, understandable.
Panzer32> we were never on GS' side, just looking out for ourselves.
Beta> Recent events have instilled more confidence.
Panzer32> good
Beta> So - is GF still on GoW?
Panzer32> btw, I think a PM was sent near the 10th of August (by you) that cleared up the money owed thing
Panzer32> would you guys have that on record?
Panzer32> yeah
Beta> I will have Rhoth look into it and get back to Aggie.
Beta> And yes - we have all FA stuff on record.
Beta> But I believe it was an investigation after that - when you were in the thick of the war - and couldn't spare the cash.
Panzer32> we have no record of that in our foreign affairs - vox thread but that can easily happen
Panzer32> if you could tell us the year of the investigation (Pamplona?) then that would help greatly
Beta> looking
Panzer32> hmm... this is from Oct. 21:
Panzer32> Guys - not what you wanted. Sorry. We screwed up. We just assumed we would have sufficient gold to do this - but we are 11 short. Damn. I should have checked an old save when you first contacted me. You or ND could have sent the 11 gold on this turn so we could do it.
Panzer32>
Panzer32> We have little in the way of city improvements to sell - one temple actually. I couldn't think of anything else I could do his turn.
Panzer32>
Panzer32> And this was after a crummy day of work too. Hope my dreams are better tonight.
Panzer32>
Panzer32> Again - apologies from Vox. Let us know if you want us to do it next turn. I appreciate with the war - this may have been critical.
Panzer32>
Panzer32> Beta.
Panzer32> you might have done it next turn but I have no email record of the shot sent to me
Panzer32> hmm... actually I should go look at houses now. I will post this log and please PM Aggie MZ and myself about the details
Beta> one sec - got it
Beta> The investigation was done on Oct 28. Cost 166 I think. U paid hald in adavance.,
Beta> In december you repiad one quearter (43 gold) with the remainder - (40???) yet to come. Here is the message from you guys -
Beta> This is excellent news. By the way you will find a payment of 43g this turn and expect the balance next(we are rushing a tech and I wasn't sure exactly how much ND would send us). We would be very happy to entertain any tech trades. I am glad to seee your people achieving greatness on those rocky slopes.
Beta> Good Luck.
Beta> Aggie
Beta> Tose last three lines were from you.
Beta> Anyways - it would probably be best if Aggie and Rhoth figured it out.
Beta> All the best with house huntinhg. Chhers.
Panzer32> ok, thank you.


So can you replay the turn and give them luxes Aggie or will it take too long. Also could you confirm that we still owe Vox about 40g?

	12-01-2004 21:06									#175
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quote: Greetings Beta, I am pleased to inform you that my duties in GoW have recently expanded to Consul of Foreign Affairs, and cordially ask that any PM's be copied to myself as a result. I look forward to a profitable future for the both of our fine nations, and to many deals of mutual benefit. Respectfully, UnOrthOdOx

	13-01-2004 02:13									#176
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quote: Greeting UnO, Beta posted that you were our new Glory of War liaison to Vox Controli. I just wanted to let you know that both Beta and I handle turn playing and foreign affairs so if you would please direct all FAM to both of us. Thanks. Pleasure to work with you. Regards, Rhoth P.S. I sent a PM to Master Zen a few days ago (while he was moving) regarding a Vox-GoW tech deal for printing press and wanted to verify that it has been received.

quote: Greetings once again! Thank you for the information, Rhothaerill. As to your question, I can see a PM made a while back in reguards to Printing Press, and I see a response from MZ back to you at that time. Are we talking about a follow-up PM that was sent to him? Second, I see a chat between Panzer and Beta in reguards to a Luxury and 40 gold that is owed to you guys, yet I see no evidence that this was resolved in our forum. Being that this is my first time really looking at the thread designated to you guys, it will take me a little time to catch up, but at first glance it seems we are a little in disarray, or that those in power didn't see fit to record things for the benefit of the rest of the team... Rest assured that this is something I do not tolerate, and it will be remedied from this point on, though if either of you know me much, you already would have known that. Are there any further issues that have remained unresolved between our two teams that I need to know about? Respectfully, UnOrthOdOx

	13-01-2004 03:09									#177
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quote: And greetings back to you again. Regarding the luxury/gold, that was in reference to the investigation deals that we had with your team and that has been taken care of. Beta chatted with Aggie before last turn and Aggie sent the remaining 43 gold from the investigation of Pamplona, as well as starting the luxury from our original deal. Regarding Printing Press, this was my PM to MZ a few days ago. We will be finishing that tech very soon and wanted to see if a deal was still possible. Regards, Rhoth quote: Greetings to Emperor Master Zen and the rest of the fine people of Glory of War. Regarding our discussion about sending Printing Press to Glory of War, Vox Controli no longer needs to deal for chivalry. If Glory of War still desires to deal for this tech then perhaps a deal for gold (either a straight sum or gpt) or an addition of 20 turns of the luxury item that Glory of War owes to Vox as part of past deals. If a straight gold deal is desired, Vox Controli is seeking 250 gold, but if a combination luxury/gold deal can be worked out then that number will be lowered. Regards, Rhoth

What's our situation?

What lux are we trading, what do they need? etc, so on and so forth.

quote: Thanks for the info! That is indeed a new PM to me. That said, when have you not known us to want to deal? Of course we will work something out. How much are the Luxuries worth to you guys first of all, and which do you need, etc. UnOrthOdOx

	19-01-2004 18:51									#178
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quote: Greetings to Master Zen, UnOrthOdOx and the many fine people of Glory of War. My apologies for not getting back to you right away. Regarding the printing press deal, as an alternative to the 250 gold price proposed earlier Vox Controli would also like to propose a price of 150 gold (either lump sum or gpt or a combination) along with 20 turns of wines to begin at a time specified by Vox Controli (not necessarily consecutive with the current 40 turns of wines that Glory of War has sent to Vox). We look forward to hearing from you. Regards, Rhoth

	19-01-2004 20:05									#179
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I'm not so sure we need either deal for pp. Soon ND will ahve it and we can get it from them for free and thus save our money.
Aggie

	19-01-2004 20:44									#180
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yeah, I don't think PP is too much use to us... we're not going democracy are we??