04-04-2003 04:41									#61
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I think it's good donegeal

However, even if we lose 4 or 5 horses we might be able to build some in our Vox city or any other city we capture so perhaps it's too much. I'd say lose 6 is fine, if we lose 6 that means we are getting our butt kicked.

(Plus, I don't plan on us using those horsemen for anything other than open-field combat and finishing off weakened units. City-bashing - what causes most casualties - will be left to the immortals)

	04-04-2003 04:58									#62
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BTW, I just received the last save from Ghengis which mentiones GS offering ND Feudalism for sale. Being such a useful tech (now they'll have pikemen ) I wonder if they are really strapped from cash (and planning a major Spearman upgrade expecting a Vox immortal assault)...after all it has been said that GS was rather reluctant to trade or not?

I wonder if they have offered this to Vox too... does anybody have a clue?

Chances of winning while GS has pikemen are considerably less.

	04-04-2003 05:21									#63
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If you object to this...

* Donegeal pokes Unortho and GF in the ribs.

...please say so so I can get the negotiating going.

	04-04-2003 06:23									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen I think it's good donegeal However, even if we lose 4 or 5 horses we might be able to build some in our Vox city or any other city we capture so perhaps it's too much. I'd say lose 6 is fine, if we lose 6 that means we are getting our butt kicked. (Plus, I don't plan on us using those horsemen for anything other than open-field combat and finishing off weakened units. City-bashing - what causes most casualties - will be left to the immortals)

Im sure vox is thinking the saem thing too. "Most of casualty will come from GoW"

	04-04-2003 06:46									#65
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Donegeal,

I suggest that you ease them into this.
The contract is in our favour...a temporary city with a prebuilt barracks is a good idea, but they may not go for it.

Remember, that we are allies, and we need them as much as they need us. The last thing we want them to do is to release those 11-20 immortal dogs of war onto us.

They killed of Lux because they did not follow the "spirit" of the contract, even though Lux did not break any of the deals.

These guys may believe we already have an agreed alliance and can do what they want with our horsemen. We need to ease them into the idea that we are in control. Telling them we now want to have a city gifted to us may go down the wrong way.

Perhaps discuss with them by chat first...present to them some of our ideas (we must have their map for planning purposes)...and them send the our "first draft".

Regs

	04-04-2003 18:19									#66
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In an attempt to ease them into this, I PM Beta and MJMacy...
here is there response:

quote: Re: Vox/GoW v GS Hi donegeal. I waited for awhile. Also had the turn to play - so n/p. How's Friday evening? I can line up some of the others as well. Anyplace else we can chat. Looks suspicious doing it at Poly. And btw - we will plan on heading out on 750BC turn. The fourth turn after the 850BC turn just played. I think this is a turn later than originally indicated. ...Beta.

	04-04-2003 18:31									#67
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I can be there Friday evening EST (same as BH).

	04-04-2003 19:23									#68
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I can't, but I will PM him letting him know that GoW will have representation...

	04-04-2003 19:55									#69
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I could be there after 6 PM EST tonight, but might be spotty at best due to my children.

	04-04-2003 20:17									#70
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal If you object to this... * Donegeal pokes Unortho and GF in the ribs. ...please say so so I can get the negotiating going.

No comment.

	04-04-2003 20:19									#71
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quote: Originally posted by donegeal In an attempt to ease them into this, I PM Beta and MJMacy... here is there response:

I should be available all day, except when I run to Sonic for sustenance.

	04-04-2003 21:28									#72
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Asked Betahound about 7:00 EST chat. I probably won't be available until that time (supper).

	05-04-2003 05:05									#73
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We are in room #GoW - password peace

Type "/join #GoW peace"

	05-04-2003 07:40									#74
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our chat with Vox mainly landed us with this plan:

Vox fakes a landing on our coast; we declare war on them.
Our galleys go down GS's coast; saying that we are exploring.
When we find a good target (like iron), land horsemen, thus alerting GS.
Pilliage around GS.

The Vox war is a diversion so that GS thinks it can fight Vox.

We trade maps every turn (except when we are at war); we give Vox 30 gold for engineering when they get it.

	05-04-2003 10:27									#75
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I think the agreement is pretty good

I think the galley thing however is going to be a little suspicious. They'll think we are at war with Vox, why then are we wasting our galleys "exploring" when we could be using them to try and stop a potential landing fleet?

I'm not so sure about this... I liked the Photoshop ruse better it would definitely have won us an award for evilest of evil plans.

	05-04-2003 16:45									#76
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Was the chat logged ?

	05-04-2003 18:50									#77
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quote: Originally posted by Master Zen I think the agreement is pretty good I think the galley thing however is going to be a little suspicious. They'll think we are at war with Vox, why then are we wasting our galleys "exploring" when we could be using them to try and stop a potential landing fleet? I'm not so sure about this... I liked the Photoshop ruse better it would definitely have won us an award for evilest of evil plans.

GS has told us that if we ever land troops on their continent they will consider it an act of war.

We are at war with Vox but our sole goal is to kill any units they land on Bob, our galleys attacked and suck all the Vox ships they found and extras are then scouting the coast to map it and look for more Vox galleys.

	05-04-2003 19:51									#78
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quote: Was the chat logged ?

Not that I know of.

	06-04-2003 02:28									#79
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quote: Originally posted by Panzer32 Not that I know of.

I have a log if you guys need it.

	06-04-2003 03:40									#80
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quote: Originally posted by Trip I have a log if you guys need it.

That would be nice.

	06-04-2003 04:47									#81
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How ironic we started talking about logs at the beginning. ;)

quote: Session Start: Fri Apr 04 17:08:09 2003 Session Ident: #Gow [17:08] * Now talking in #Gow * Retrieving #Gow info... [17:08] * BetaHound has joined #GoW [17:08] [Trip] don't mind me, I'm silent [17:08] [Trip] :) [17:08] [MasterZen] hmmm... [17:08] [Panzer32] hello, Voxians and historians [17:08] [MasterZen] we have logs you know? ;) [17:08] [Trip] The historian always has logs ;) [17:08] [BetaHound] one sec - I need to get Harry and Konquest [17:09] * Trip laughs evilly and fades into the mist [17:09] [MasterZen] the historian gets the logs from the government first... :P [17:09] [Trip] I have my own logs ;) [17:09] [BetaHound] how do you do you contact someone in the main room with a private channel [17:10] [BetaHound] click on their name? [17:10] [MasterZen] yep [17:10] [MasterZen] double click [17:10] [BetaHound] k [17:10] * Panzer32 sets mode: +o Trip [17:11] [Panzer32] Trip's going to make the room secure [17:11] * Trip sets mode: +k peace [17:11] [Trip] password for the room is now "peace" [17:11] [Trip] :) [17:11] [Trip] so tell anyone who wants to join to type the following: [17:11] [Trip] /join #GOW peace [17:13] [BetaHound] on their way [17:14] [Panzer32] Unortho and GF might come [17:14] * Panzer32 is now known as [GoW]Panzer32 [17:14] * Konquest has joined #GoW [17:14] [BetaHound] welcome Kon [17:14] [Konquest] hi all! [17:14] [[GoW]Panzer32] hello [17:15] [MasterZen] hello Konquest [17:15] [BetaHound] HarryH might be along in a bit [17:15] [BetaHound] Shall we start? [17:15] [[GoW]Panzer32] sure [17:15] [BetaHound] Greetings Glorious Warriors!! [17:15] [[GoW]Panzer32] u too... one voice [17:15] [BetaHound] I assume that our joint opeartion is still on. [17:16] [[GoW]Panzer32] yup [17:16] [BetaHound] That is good. Very good. [17:16] [BetaHound] Have you heard anything from NeuD [17:16] [[GoW]Panzer32] Down with Gathering Storm!!!! [17:17] * HarryH has joined #GoW [17:17] [MasterZen] :b: [17:17] [[GoW]Panzer32] yeah [17:17] [BetaHound] My sentiments exactly. The Apolyton All-Star team. :) [17:17] [Konquest] :) [17:17] [BetaHound] Hi Harry - welcome - we have just started. [17:17] [HarryH] Hi. My first real chat. :) [17:17] [BetaHound] And a momentous one at that. [17:18] [MasterZen] one that may shape history as we know it [17:18] [Konquest] It's a start for me too... [17:18] [[GoW]Panzer32] What do you expect to hear from ND? We have told them about the operation, and they are fairly supportive of it. [17:18] [HarryH] How supportive? [17:18] [BetaHound] We sent them two letters - the second one asking for a simple confirmation that they would maintain the cover. No response. [17:19] [BetaHound] That was my concern. [17:19] [BetaHound] But if no response is good - then I am fine with it. [17:19] [[GoW]Panzer32] They won't snitch ;) [17:19] [BetaHound] Great. [17:19] [MasterZen] Trip might :P [17:19] [MasterZen] (just kidding) [17:19] [BetaHound] Now - timing - I gave you details on our operation. Where does GoW fit in? [17:20] [[GoW]Panzer32] most of the communication ND gives us is with the Save, so thats why we communicate lots. [17:20] [Trip] I'm just another pretty face, don't mind me :cute: [17:20] [[GoW]Panzer32] Thats what Homer said!! [17:20] [[GoW]Panzer32] (according to very reliable gossip) [17:20] [BetaHound] Before he was 'Immortalized". [17:21] [Trip] I'm no Homer :P [17:21] [Trip] continue :) [17:21] [[GoW]Panzer32] ok, timing... looking for your message about that... [17:22] [[GoW]Panzer32] ah yes... in the "Dtrategy" thread... (courtesy of GF) [17:22] * Trip is now known as The-Trip [17:23] [[GoW]Panzer32] 775bc? Attack date? [17:23] [BetaHound] We go in 4 turns from now. [17:23] [BetaHound] 750BC. [17:23] * The-Trip is now known as Trip [17:23] [BetaHound] Miscalciulated by one turn. [17:23] [[GoW]Panzer32] ok, thats better [17:24] [[GoW]Panzer32] so you plan to start war by getting their observer, and then spend several turns getting to their cities? [17:24] [BetaHound] yes [17:24] [BetaHound] unless you will be there soon to get the observer [17:24] [[GoW]Panzer32] wait... loading save. [17:25] [BetaHound] in which case it would buy us some time as they tried to figure out what was going on [17:26] [[GoW]Panzer32] but if you start the journey sooner, and then attacked the observer when you were closer, wouldn't that be better? [17:27] [MasterZen] if we do it they might suspect you anyways [17:27] [MasterZen] and you'll lose one turn of penetration [17:28] [MasterZen] and they'll win one turn of pike building [17:28] [BetaHound] The observer sits beside the road - on a mountain - just south of the chokepoint which separates Nort and sOUTH Estonia. [17:29] [BetaHound] Yes - but it would be you declaring war - we could say it was aretaliatory strike by NeuD and GoW. But that would probably worry them more. [17:29] [BetaHound] I like the surprise factor of you guys coming in after. [17:29] [[GoW]Panzer32] what is their observer? Warrior on a mountain? [17:30] [BetaHound] yup- easy kill. [17:30] [MasterZen] we can always say were coming in the name of life, liberty and the Vox way of life [17:30] [BetaHound] :) [17:30] [BetaHound] so - who is coming anyways? [17:30] [[GoW]Panzer32] not necessarily easy - it has a better chance of defending against horsemen than dying. [17:30] [BetaHound] yes - we will take out the obserrver [17:31] [[GoW]Panzer32] we can get one horseman over to your continent in 2 turns. 5 or so for the next couple. [17:31] [BetaHound] How many galleys? [17:32] [[GoW]Panzer32] 1 [17:32] [BetaHound] :( [17:32] * GhengisFarb has joined #GoW [17:32] [[GoW]Panzer32] hey GF [17:33] [GhengisFarb] Hey [17:33] [[GoW]Panzer32] you know the save better than I do [17:33] [MasterZen] hi GF [17:33] [[GoW]Panzer32] Betahound wants to know when they can expect our forces. [17:33] [BetaHound] Hi GF! The problem with ferrying horsemen is that they have to be brought in south of the chokepoint. [17:33] [BetaHound] We have a city there. [17:33] [GhengisFarb] We have a galley and two Horsemen in Port Isolation now [17:34] [BetaHound] So - do we send them down the coast - or land them south of the chokepoint while you go back for more. [17:34] [BetaHound] Harry - Kon - jump in here. [17:35] [BetaHound] It is 4 galley moves from Prt Iso to a landing area. [17:35] [BetaHound] 4 back. [17:35] [BetaHound] 4 back down again with two more. [17:35] [Konquest] that's a long time... :( [17:35] [GhengisFarb] Theres a second galley enrout [17:36] [GhengisFarb] enroute [17:36] [[GoW]Panzer32] yeah, I didn't see that one when I said only 1 galley [17:36] [Konquest] If they drop them closer to their home? Is this more efficient? [17:36] [GhengisFarb] Horsemen are going to be the bigger slowdown, we have four cities building them but they take longer to build than warriors. [17:37] [BetaHound] let me see [17:37] [HarryH] Those two horsemen could land next to the GS warrior in 4 turns. On turn 5 they attack, one will probably lose and the second takes out the warrior. [17:37] [Konquest] Ok I saw the map and I think they might drop them on the road south of eliopolis... [17:38] [BetaHound] Do you think that buys us much, Harry? [17:38] [BetaHound] Kon - that was what I was looking at too. [17:38] [MasterZen] but then we'd lose 1/6 of our expeditionary force which could better be used for open ground warfare [17:38] [Konquest] Then take the road to dissidentville [17:38] [Konquest] That about the closest they can do [17:38] [BetaHound] yes - an immortal is guarenteed victory. And will kick off our GA which will fuel the reinforcements. [17:39] [[GoW]Panzer32] Voxians, this brings up another issue - we need a map of where we're going. I realise you don't have a map of GS territory, but maybe one to show us where the observer is, and where we're going. [17:39] [BetaHound] Yes - I was thinking of that. [17:39] [HarryH] One turn later but the confusion may get us a little. As soon as our units get past Dissidentville they will see what is coming anyway. It only buys a couple of turns of confusion at best. [17:39] [BetaHound] Agreed Harry. [17:40] [[GoW]Panzer32] city names are foreign to the Glory of War... we need a map! :) [17:40] [GhengisFarb] I would rather see how far we can go south with our Galley loaded with Horsemen. GS has never told us we couldn't scout out their coast. [17:40] [BetaHound] Panzer - how about a map of the coast with key landing points - and a map of south estonia where all the important stuff is. [17:41] [GhengisFarb] We should discuss a map trade. [17:41] [BetaHound] Everything South of the chokepoint - called Elipolis. [17:41] [HarryH] I could make a map that shows the east coast plus all the area around Dissdentville and south. [17:41] [Konquest] GF, this might work if you have enough forces to take GS backwards... [17:41] [[GoW]Panzer32] I guess... GF? You're the one moving... is this ok? [17:41] [GhengisFarb] That is what I would prefer to do. [17:42] [BetaHound] So - the first galley goes south. [17:42] [BetaHound] The second follows when it gets here. [17:42] [HarryH] Actually, I meant the west cost. [17:42] [GhengisFarb] I want to send two galleys and tell GS they are mapping the coast. But both will be loaded with Veteran/Elite Horsemen [17:42] [Konquest] This is good GF... [17:43] [Konquest] If you can spot a mountain to drop the horsemen, it would be great [17:43] [GhengisFarb] Then we can hopefully land them on grasslan/plains area to utilize their mobility. We can also try to cut off their Iron. [17:43] [BetaHound] or find their ron supply [17:43] [Konquest] You might want to wait a turn before dropping them, so you can do more damage [17:44] [GhengisFarb] I don't plan on dropping them until we have to [17:44] [Konquest] good... [17:44] [BetaHound] Ok - we will have a galley with two immortals going down the other coast - also stretching the defence. [17:44] * Hot_Enamel[GoW] has joined #GoW [17:44] [GhengisFarb] And would prefer to find out where the Iron is, without Iron they don't stand much of a chance. [17:44] [BetaHound] Agreed. [17:44] [[GoW]Panzer32] hey, H_E! [17:44] [Konquest] Yes [17:44] [BetaHound] With or without feudalism. [17:44] [BetaHound] Hi HE [17:44] [Hot_Enamel[GoW]] Here for just a few minutes [17:44] [HarryH] Their cities are packed tight and they are probably roading the area. As soon as they land any chariots will be on them quick. [17:45] [MasterZen] Hi HE [17:45] [GhengisFarb] Exactly, the Horsemen may be able to do more damage by pillaging roads and improvements than attacking units. [17:45] [BetaHound] Harry's point is valid. [17:46] [BetaHound] Agreed GF. [17:46] [BetaHound] This will be a quick war of economics. [17:46] [BetaHound] And hitting their economy may also slow down feudalism. [17:46] [BetaHound] And reinforcements. [17:46] [[GoW]Panzer32] even if GS does survive, they will be a power no more. [17:46] [HarryH] We should make an agreement to share maps of the GS area as we uncover the land. [17:47] [BetaHound] They will not survive, [17:47] [GhengisFarb] Whats really cool is now I know how Hitler felt prior to WW2, we all know the World War is coming but the enemy appears to be clueless about it. [17:47] [Konquest] lol!! [17:47] [BetaHound] So far yes. [17:47] [BetaHound] Which does raise the other key question... [17:47] [BetaHound] do we need a ruse of us going back to Bob. [17:48] [[GoW]Panzer32] what do you mean? [17:48] [GhengisFarb] There's no way GS and Roleplay know that Vox/GoW/ND is coming for them in a coordinated attack. This is going to be so wild when it hits the fan. [17:48] [BetaHound] ND coming too? [17:48] [BetaHound] :) [17:48] [BetaHound] :) [17:48] [[GoW]Panzer32] I think the last word was some monetary support [17:49] [GhengisFarb] They'll attack Roleplay, but in a few turns there will be a 5 team war with 3 Allies and two independent victims. [17:49] * UnOrthOdOx has joined #GoW [17:49] [BetaHound] That would be great. Do you have any idea how much this is costing us??? [17:49] [[GoW]Panzer32] hey Unortho [17:49] [Trip] when will ND attack RP? [17:49] [UnOrthOdOx] Hi guys [17:49] [BetaHound] Hi UnOrthO [17:49] [Konquest] hi [17:49] [Trip] hey Unortho [17:49] [[GoW]Panzer32] now GoW outnumberes Vox! [17:49] [MasterZen] hi UnOrthO [17:49] [GhengisFarb] UnOrthO [17:50] [BetaHound] But we have Immortals. [17:50] [Trip] :D [17:50] * UnOrthOdOx is now known as UnOrthOdOx[GoW] [17:50] [GhengisFarb] I wonder how Trip will write this up? [17:50] [BetaHound] So - will ND help finance some of the Vox campaign. [17:50] [Trip] write what up? :) [17:50] [MasterZen] Trip better re-write history to suit the winner's side [17:50] [[GoW]Panzer32] probably post the log in the main forum tommorrow ;) [17:50] [Konquest] I think it's not for tomorrow... [17:50] [GhengisFarb] I don't know, GS is going to get Feudalism long before us and I would like to aquire it from them. [17:51] [MasterZen] well, its better to hit them before they get it. Success will be guaranteed [17:51] [BetaHound] hah - fat chance when you have horsemen running all over their land. [17:51] [[GoW]Panzer32] so get ND to trade with them for it? [17:51] [MasterZen] yes [17:51] [BetaHound] Agreed MasterZen [17:51] [MasterZen] then let's not involve ND openly in this [17:51] [BetaHound] yes - good idea. But no cash goes to GS!!! [17:52] [GhengisFarb] Is anyone researching Engineering? Yes, I have discussed contingency plans to that effect. [17:52] [GhengisFarb] Why, we'll just take it when we sack their cities. [17:52] [BetaHound] Yes - we have started engineering. [17:52] [GhengisFarb] How many turns to completeion? [17:52] [BetaHound] Cash will be used to rush units. [17:52] [BetaHound] Quite a few turns. [17:53] [BetaHound] Like in the 30's. [17:53] [GhengisFarb] Okay [17:53] [BetaHound] So - do we need a ruse. [17:53] [BetaHound] The original plan... [17:53] [GhengisFarb] WHen are you going to attack? [17:54] [BetaHound] involved us staging a phony war back on the continent - to put GS at ease,. [17:54] [BetaHound] 4 turns. [17:54] [[GoW]Panzer32] they said 750bc [17:54] [GhengisFarb] Is that in three turns? [17:54] [[GoW]Panzer32] ah... like pretend we are attacking ND (telling them), and then attacking GS? [17:55] [HarryH] I think a ruse is still a good idea for a while to keep GS off balance. When we turn south we decided that the continent was too tough and wanted to try something easier. :) [17:55] [BetaHound] We have already told GS we are going back - we also have a draft letter set to go asking Theseuas and DeepO for some tactical advice on how to conduct the war. [17:55] [BetaHound] :) [17:55] [BetaHound] No - like ND and GoW are attacking Vox again - after we land for a second time. [17:56] [[GoW]Panzer32] ah [17:56] [[GoW]Panzer32] so do you actually land the units, or not? [17:56] [BetaHound] Say - we land there next turn - it takes one turn for you tos ee us. Lots of sabre rattling in the open forum. [17:56] [BetaHound] No - we do NOT land. Been there done that. [17:56] [GhengisFarb] I think GoW and Vox should go to war [17:57] [BetaHound] Pigs!! Die!! [17:57] [BetaHound] OK. :) [17:57] [BetaHound] It is probably best. Would be the most convincing for GS. [17:57] [Trip] switch the cities again ;P [17:57] [GhengisFarb] No landing or anything, just declare war and tell everyone that you landed a settler and we killed it or something. [17:58] [BetaHound] No - we have told GS we are going back in force. [17:58] [[GoW]Panzer32] shouldn't GoW be the one to declare war? [17:58] [BetaHound] Yes. [17:58] [[GoW]Panzer32] but what is the difference if they don't see it? [17:58] [[GoW]Panzer32] or will they? [17:58] [GhengisFarb] They won't know one way or another [17:58] [HarryH] Yes, GoW and Vox go to war. Keep talking in the forum. GoW can tell GS they are just looking for a way to get Vox from behind. [17:58] [BetaHound] Let's say we land our first two galleys worth and then the sh*t hits the fan. [17:59] [BetaHound] You kill our first wave with horsemen. [17:59] [[GoW]Panzer32] GoW takes screenshots... [17:59] [BetaHound] The war of words rages on. [17:59] [Konquest] I like that plan... [17:59] [UnOrthOdOx[GoW]] ... [17:59] [BetaHound] It would also be a lot of fun. [18:00] [Konquest] We must have screenshots... Anyone good with Photoshop? [18:00] * Trip is now known as Trip[gone] [18:00] [BetaHound] GF [18:00] [Konquest] Oh, yeah, I fogot...! :) [18:00] [HarryH] Think, after we take out the GS warrior and go to war with them, GoW asks GS if they can land a few horsemen in their territory to come at Vox from behind. Especially once our Immortals are heading south, GS may welcome additional units. [18:01] [MasterZen] I don't think GS would accept [18:01] [GhengisFarb] All you have to do is make a duplicate map in the Editor and place the units, etc and then take a screenshot. [18:01] [BetaHound] We were also planning on telling GS that our invasion force consistes of 7 immortals and 9 spearmen. [18:01] [BetaHound] :) [18:01] [Konquest] You've got a better method there GF... [18:02] [BetaHound] And you post it to say - see what the heathen Voxians have done. [18:02] [GhengisFarb] I don't think we need to make so much stuff up, just a little comment here and there would be more believable [18:02] [HarryH] Screenshots are easy. Setup a text scenario the way you want, capture the screen, and us MS Paint crop it down to the area you want. [18:03] [BetaHound] Yes - the map may be over the top. [18:04] [MasterZen] if its believable it might work...we can't also dismiss a "blatant invasion" just like that [18:04] [BetaHound] No - but we can have talk of bloody warfare on the hills outside of Port Deso. [18:04] [Hot_Enamel[GoW]] gotta go - bye all [18:04] [GhengisFarb] If its too big then GS may get involved and attack you while they think your forces are divided [18:04] [GhengisFarb] Bye [18:04] [[GoW]Panzer32] bye H_E [18:04] [Konquest] bye HE! [18:04] * Hot_Enamel[GoW] has left #GoW [18:05] [BetaHound] Which would be the best thing going. [18:05] [BetaHound] If they did attack. [18:05] [BetaHound] We catch them on our turf - in the jungle - with Immortals. ;) [18:05] [Konquest] Yes, but I think we must keep them as far from our home as possible [18:05] [GhengisFarb] Then they may suspect you have been misleading them [18:06] [BetaHound] We only have 3 turns to go. we attack on the fourth. [18:06] [BetaHound] Why don't we plan on landing on BOb in two turns. We do lots of screaming. You dcelare war. next turn we attack GS. [18:07] [GhengisFarb] You don't have to land anything, we just claim you did and declare war next turn

	06-04-2003 04:50									#82
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Part II.

quote: [18:07] [BetaHound] yes - exactly. Iwasn't suggesting we really land. [18:08] [BetaHound] Just on TV. [18:08] [BetaHound] Immortals wading ashore on Bob - from CNN. [18:09] [[GoW]Panzer32] there is a ND swordsman near the coast - I assume we tell ND about this plan? [18:09] [UnOrthOdOx[GoW]] While it is an interesting idea, I don't think it is really neccessary. [18:10] [BetaHound] yes [18:10] [BetaHound] why not UnOrthO? [18:10] [BetaHound] Too much? [18:10] [UnOrthOdOx[GoW]] There is ND, RP may also want to get involved if they thought it was a major invasion. [18:11] [BetaHound] What we can do is tell GS we are landing back on BOb on turn 5 from now. [18:11] [UnOrthOdOx[GoW]] The only thing it can accomplish is an attack from GS on you guys at best. [18:11] [BetaHound] Do all the misinformation at our end with GS. [18:11] [HarryH] We should do at least a little something so GoW declares war on Vox. If GS thinks we are waging a two front war they will be less concerned about what we can send at them. [18:11] [[GoW]Panzer32] RP won't care... Vox wouldn't be anywhere near them. By the time they send (if any) units, we'll be well at war with GS. [18:11] [UnOrthOdOx[GoW]] It is just my experience in deception that simple is always better than elaborate. [18:12] [BetaHound] True. [18:12] [GhengisFarb] Yes, I agree [18:12] [BetaHound] Well - Gs will not attack us before we launch or Bob invasion. aAs we will have a pile of troops et to go. [18:13] [BetaHound] So - I say we go with the 5 turn plan to attack Bob. [18:13] [BetaHound] And we attack GS on turn 4. [18:14] [Konquest] I like this one better as it is much simpler... [18:14] [BetaHound] Harry? [18:14] [Konquest] We don't need as much logistics as the false declaration of war [18:14] [Konquest] therefore, less chance to fail [18:15] [BetaHound] So - when will the first galley be there from GoW. [18:15] [HarryH] OK. GoW declares war on us first or we do as or preparation to attack Bob? [18:16] [UnOrthOdOx[GoW]] Is this a simultaneous attack from both GoW and Vox? [18:16] [BetaHound] I think we were concluding no declaration of war. Just imminent invasion of Bob. [18:16] [GhengisFarb] We won't be in position for awhile [18:16] [BetaHound] UnOrthO - that's what I am trying to find out? [18:17] [UnOrthOdOx[GoW]] If Vox goes first, we could convince GS that we want to help them in retribution for Vox's earlier invasion. [18:17] [Konquest] GF, that's good, as our invasion plan will be more believable [18:17] [BetaHound] What's awhile? [18:17] [HarryH] I still think a war between GoW and Vox will make GS feel more secure. It also gives an excuse for the GoW galley going down the coast. They are looking for a safe place to land behind Vox. [18:17] [GhengisFarb] I want to scout out their coast and find out just how large their territroy is and find out if we can cut off their Iron. [18:17] [GhengisFarb] Yes [18:18] [GhengisFarb] We might still get a chance to get Feudalism. [18:18] [BetaHound] So - do we go to war with you then? [18:18] [GhengisFarb] Yes [18:18] [Konquest] They might trade it to GoW to support you in your war against Vox... [18:18] [BetaHound] How about wedeclare war on you in order to take back our city. [18:19] [GhengisFarb] That's possible and try to curry favor with us to prevent us siding with Vox [18:19] [BetaHound] But that is a number of turns away. Feudalism. [18:19] [UnOrthOdOx[GoW]] If we can get ANYTHING from them, it is something... [18:19] [GhengisFarb] That's unnessary just claim you plan on founding a city in the north on the Wine resource [18:20] [BetaHound] OK - and then you declare war on us. [18:20] [GhengisFarb] Agreed [18:20] [BetaHound] sounds good. [18:20] * MasterZen wishes the UN had been established in time because this would have been a hilarious international incident [18:20] [HarryH] But if they get a map somehow they will see no city there. [18:20] [GhengisFarb] They won't get a map [18:20] [BetaHound] So - how long before your galley(S) come south? [18:21] [BetaHound] MZ - yes - it would be a riot! [18:21] [GhengisFarb] Who said you founded a city? You say you are going to found a city, we can always say we killed your settler. [18:21] [GhengisFarb] The first one will start heading down the coast next turn. [18:21] [BetaHound] Agreed. And a spearman and Immortal to boot. [18:22] [HarryH] OK. We fight to the death to avenge our innocent settler. :) [18:22] [BetaHound] Yes - blood and destruction. And - Ah - great - the timing works prefectly then. [18:22] [BetaHound] And the second - roughly how long? [18:23] [GhengisFarb] As soon as its loaded up, maybe 4 turns, not sure [18:23] [BetaHound] "k. Great. [18:23] [BetaHound] One thought ... [18:23] [Konquest] Do you have a way to get around our contient without us seeing your galley? [18:24] [BetaHound] as the galleys head south - and ours too - remeber they may have galleys as well. [18:24] [Konquest] If you want to take us backwards, it must be done with as much surprise possible [18:24] [BetaHound] And we don't want to lose a galley loaded with troops. [18:24] [GhengisFarb] I don't know I have no map of your continent [18:24] [Konquest] Sorry... I'll look [18:25] [GhengisFarb] We just say we told you it was scouting coast which is what we are going to tell GS [18:25] [HarryH] K, no they can not get by us. Our cities cover all the northern coast. [18:25] [BetaHound] No - it is best you go down the west coast. We are going down the east. [18:25] [Konquest] Nope... :( [18:25] [BetaHound] So - I was thinking of a plan where each turn - if we see agreat defensive position - we off looad the troops before heading off the next turn. [18:25] [Konquest] Do GS have a map? [18:25] [BetaHound] no [18:25] [GhengisFarb] We are sending a galley down each to drop off two loads in GS territory, it makes no sense to send one the same way another just went [18:26] [BetaHound] GF - agreed. [18:26] [Konquest] So it does not matter about the passage... GS won't know it... [18:26] [BetaHound] GF - let me understand. [18:26] [GhengisFarb] The galleys are simply scouting out the coast for our maps [18:27] [BetaHound] You are sending you second down the east coast? [18:27] [GhengisFarb] THe first will go down the west coast, the second down the east coast [18:28] [BetaHound] That adds a lot of distance to your trip. You have to go up and over Noth Estonia. [18:28] [Konquest] it's 4-5 more galley turns... [18:28] [BetaHound] yup - bot that. [18:28] [BetaHound] We need the military support. [18:29] [BetaHound] We have a galley going down the other coast looking for iron. [18:29] [GhengisFarb] Its a plausible reason to get two galleys into their backyard [18:29] [Konquest] It's 10 turns from Port Isolation to GS territory [18:29] [BetaHound] I would keep the second just north of their los - and then we you have a target with the first - follow it with the second. [18:31] [[GoW]Panzer32] so, the first city captured goes temporarily to the GoW, right? [18:31] [BetaHound] ??? [18:31] [BetaHound] Why? [18:32] [[GoW]Panzer32] to let us have a healing spot (we of course gift you the city when the campaign is over) [18:32] [[GoW]Panzer32] I thought that was agreed upon somewhere... maybe I misread [18:33] [BetaHound] The first city captured will be nowhere close to where you are operating with the current plan. [18:34] [BetaHound] I think your suggestion is a good one. But it may be awhile before our army heading south - and your horsemen raiding - actually meet. [18:34] [GhengisFarb] We simply need a barracks to heal our Horsemen and return them back to battle [18:34] [Konquest] You plan to take GS backwards, and most likely the first city captured will be near the main frontline, which will be totally useless for healing... [18:34] [HarryH] I understand your need for a city but it won't help unless it is close to your units. [18:34] [Konquest] I think a city is a good idea though [18:35] [BetaHound] agreed [18:35] [GhengisFarb] Exactly, without any healing our Horsemen won't last long, and if we capture the city it would be default be near our units. [18:35] [BetaHound] And if we used the ferrying idea - and 4 horsemen coming from the north - it would make sense. [18:35] [GhengisFarb] Plus if we build a harbor we may be able to upgrade those Horsemen [18:36] [BetaHound] Ye s- if you capture a city - by all means. [18:36] [BetaHound] We may also be able to help with our two immortal (city busters) from our galley. [18:37] [BetaHound] Sorry - panzer - I misunderstood yoyr point originally. [18:37] [BetaHound] And you knw - [18:37] [[GoW]Panzer32] ok [18:37] [BetaHound] the more I think about this - the more we should tade maps - and on a turn by turn basis. [18:38] [[GoW]Panzer32] yeah. The GoW has been suggesting this (trading maps) for a while now. [18:38] [BetaHound] This will clarify for you where you are going and what we find - and will clarify for us what you find. [18:39] [BetaHound] You do understand that we are very much exposing ourselves here. [18:39] [BetaHound] This is a matter of trust on our side. [18:40] [GhengisFarb] If we trade maps, GoW should get something extra as we will be giving you the map of GoW, Roleplay, ND and Lego. [18:40] [GhengisFarb] Well a chunk of Lego [18:41] [BetaHound] hmmm - and that really is not of much interest to us. How about we do the screenshot thing of South Estonia [18:41] [MasterZen] sorry guys but I must leave [18:41] [MasterZen] cya later [18:41] [BetaHound] of interest to us now - I mean. [18:41] [Konquest] good night MZ! [18:41] [BetaHound] bye MZ [18:41] [[GoW]Panzer32] night! [18:42] [MasterZen] may our plan work, long live Vox Controli and the Glory of War! [18:42] [GhengisFarb] 'You have to have it eventually, you can't trade with anyone unless you know of a safe route via your map from harbor to harbor [18:42] [BetaHound] And besides - to be honest - we have been scraping cash together to do this - so we can't spare any for a map. [18:42] * MasterZen has quit IRC (Quit: ) [18:42] [GhengisFarb] I wasn't thinking of cash, I was thinking of a deal for Enginnering [18:43] [Konquest] Eng. is in a while though... [18:43] [UnOrthOdOx[GoW]] we're patient [18:43] [[GoW]Panzer32] ah well, so we get eng later. [18:43] [BetaHound] Our map and Eng. for your map and?? [18:44] [BetaHound] Cash - now?? [18:44] [BetaHound] :) [18:44] [[GoW]Panzer32] not too much cash [18:45] [GhengisFarb] We pay you 30 gold when you give us Engineering, our map will immediately open a trade route to Roleplay and ND for you and a route to LEgo once we can trade via sea tiles [18:46] [BetaHound] 80 now and 80 with enegineering [18:46] [GhengisFarb] You can find someone else to help you with GS. [18:46] [[GoW]Panzer32] too steep :( [18:46] [GhengisFarb] Good bye [18:47] [BetaHound] How about this. [18:47] [GhengisFarb] So no map trades ever. [18:47] [BetaHound] No - not saying that. You need it. [18:48] [[GoW]Panzer32] oh do we? [18:48] [BetaHound] And we will eventually. But engineering is a steep tech for 30 gold. [18:48] [GhengisFarb] We will explore on our own, its obvious you have no intention of making any reasonable offer [18:48] [BetaHound] For the GS campaign. [18:48] [[GoW]Panzer32] + trade routes + maps [18:48] [GhengisFarb] It will slow us down by 4-8 turns but we will still show up [18:49] [BetaHound] Ok- 50 now - 20 later. [18:49] [GhengisFarb] No gold now, [18:50] [GhengisFarb] you just got 225 from us, that's makes you the wealthiest civ on the planet [18:50] [BetaHound] And it is all about to go into a do or die campaign. [18:50] [BetaHound] And still may not be sufficient to guarantee success. [18:51] [HarryH] That gold will disappear fast once we have to start replacing Immortals. [18:51] [BetaHound] Sorry - but we have real short term goals here. [18:51] [GhengisFarb] Fine, you don't want our help, we can divert our troops to somewhere else [18:52] [HarryH] How about just territory maps. That will show each of us a little. [18:52] [Konquest] We do want your help, as you are a great part of this plan... [18:52] [BetaHound] Ok - 30 later - but in 15 turns we have the option to draw on ... [18:52] [BetaHound] a war loan of 100 gold that will be repaid by at least 20 turns after that. [18:53] [BetaHound] No interest. [18:53] [BetaHound] By turn 15 we will have a sense of how this is gooing - and you will have a good idea of whetehr you will see your loan repaid. [18:53] [GhengisFarb] No trades whatsoever. No trades of gold, no trades of maps. Not interested at this time [18:53] [BetaHound] say what? [18:53] [GhengisFarb] No trades. [18:54] [BetaHound] Is the GS campain still on. [18:54] [GhengisFarb] Yes, but we will scout out their coast and find a strategic landing spot before declaring war on GS [18:55] [BetaHound] OK - why the tension all of a sudden - can you explain? Please. [18:56] [[GoW]Panzer32] this is what we had originally planned - just no map trades. [18:56] [GhengisFarb] We offered a decent trade and you counteroffered with AN EXTREMELY one sided deal to rob us blind. [18:56] [UnOrthOdOx[GoW]] Youre not the only ones needing upgrades... [18:57] [GhengisFarb] GoW does not exist to be provide all of its gold and troops to the sole furtherment of Vox [18:57] [BetaHound] Ok understood. But I guess I don't understand why your map is that much more valuable. That's all. [18:57] [GhengisFarb] It 20 times larger thatn yours, we have two huge continents mapped out. [18:57] [BetaHound] And please see it from our perspevctive - we have very short term objcetives here [18:57] [[GoW]Panzer32] lets talk about tiles explored and trade routes found... we beat you [18:57] [BetaHound] agreed [18:58] [[GoW]Panzer32] so you don't really need our map. [18:58] [GhengisFarb] We have all the resources, luxuries, cities, of four civs mapped [18:58] [Konquest] But our map has where you want to go, to GS... [18:58] [[GoW]Panzer32] you don't have GS territory though [18:58] [GhengisFarb] You offer us a map of YOUR land not GS's [18:58] [BetaHound] updated as we find out more each turn [18:59] [GhengisFarb] You don't have THEIR land, you just told us so earlier [18:59] [BetaHound] agreed - we don't have it. [19:00] [GhengisFarb] We offered a straight up trade to facilitate the strategic trading of maps for a great deal on a tech 30 something turns in the future. [19:01] [GhengisFarb] And you threw it in our face. [19:01] [BetaHound] Agreed. We will take the deal. And we apologize. [19:03] [[GoW]Panzer32] so trade maps each turn, for Engineering later? [19:03] [BetaHound] yes [19:04] [[GoW]Panzer32] Ok, thats acceptable (I think) [19:04] [GhengisFarb] So immediate map trades and gift each team maps on every turn (except while we are at war) and we purchase Engineering for 30 gold in 30 something turns [19:04] [BetaHound] Agreed. [19:05] [Konquest] When does the map trading end? [19:05] [GhengisFarb] You'll be getting updates on Legoland too as our galley continues to scout their coast. [19:05] [GhengisFarb] When we trade Engineering AND the war with GS ends. [19:06] [BetaHound] OK. Are you trading maps with anyone lese right now? [19:06] [GhengisFarb] Or just when the war with GS ends, nope [19:06] [BetaHound] this will be our first map trade [19:06] [GhengisFarb] We may be trading with ND when the Roleplay war starts thouth [19:06] [BetaHound] Agreed. [19:07] [GhengisFarb] Your going to have a HUGE map when you get ours next turn. [19:07] [BetaHound] OK - so we 'land' on Bob in 3 turns - and you declare war on us - right? [19:07] [GhengisFarb] Yes [19:08] [BetaHound] Turn 4 - 750bc - we attack GS's observer and land two immortals on their east coast to take out a second. [19:09] [BetaHound] 6 turns later - our army of immortals climbs into GS terr., next ti their first city. [19:09] [BetaHound] On turn 4 - your forst galley will be even with Elopils - heading south. [19:09] [BetaHound] first [19:09] [GhengisFarb] We should probably discuss this once we have each other's maps. [19:10] [GhengisFarb] It will most likely make more sense to us then. [19:10] [BetaHound] Your second galley will?? I can't remeber what you agreed to - I still think it should follow the first down the coast. [19:10] [BetaHound] Agreed - but I don't think we should have lengthy chats every night. :) [19:10] [GhengisFarb] Currently it plans to go down the east coast with the third galley following the first one [19:11] [Konquest] Third? [19:11] [BetaHound] Our interest is having your horsemen tearing up infrastructure asap. [19:11] [Konquest] Oh, ok... the second one being the one in Lego... [19:11] [GhengisFarb] We have three and a fourth one under construction at Port Isolation. [19:11] [BetaHound] That is why we would like the second going down the west coast as well. [19:12] [GhengisFarb] Do you have one going down the east coast right now? [19:12] [BetaHound] yes - it is on its way. [19:12] [BetaHound] Already south of Elipolis [19:13] [GhengisFarb] Then we may send them all down the west coast. [19:13] [BetaHound] In fact Harry and his dog Mo are on-board.:) [19:13] [BetaHound] That would probably be best - unless we find the iron quickly on the east coast - but cannot take it out. [19:14] [GhengisFarb] I am curious as to how big your continent is [19:14] [BetaHound] us too. [19:14] [BetaHound] The top is small. :( [19:15] [BetaHound] But mighty!

	06-04-2003 04:52									#83
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Part III.

quote: [19:15] [GhengisFarb] It should be bigger than Legos as you have two teams and two luxuries. Lego's appears to be as big as all of Bob [19:15] [BetaHound] In which case GS really lied to us. Which we suspect they did. [19:16] [HarryH] WoW! I didn't think Lego's was that big. Ours does not appear to be that big but GS may have much more than we think. [19:16] [BetaHound] I think they have more unused land to the south of them. [19:16] [GhengisFarb] Oh yes the bits of coast we have got of Lego shows it to be very big. [19:17] [BetaHound] And only one civ? Maybe there is a mystery 8th civ. [19:17] [HarryH] Interesting. A builder civ with lots of land and no one to compete for it. [19:17] [BetaHound] Anyways guys - I'm starved. [19:17] [GhengisFarb] Lego was able to be many techs ahead of us on goody huts alone [19:18] [BetaHound] they must have been very lucky - not like the ISDG [19:18] [GhengisFarb] Okay I think we got a lot of planning ironed out. [19:18] [HarryH] I doubt there is an 8th civ. A standard map has enough room for eight so my guess is Lego got the extra room where an eight civ would have been. [19:18] [GhengisFarb] That's probably true [19:18] [BetaHound] Ooops - GF ignore my ISDG comment. [19:18] [Konquest] Maybe Markos and Dan are playing but no one knows! [19:19] [BetaHound] Yes - we did get a lot of the planning done. [19:19] [BetaHound] Sorry about the trade thing. [19:19] [GhengisFarb] What? My team has a map of your starting area in the ISDG [19:19] [HarryH] I need to get going too. Are we about done for tonight? [19:19] [BetaHound] We did not mean to offend. And yes - we do need friends in this world right about now. [19:20] [GhengisFarb] Who do you think stole that goody hut to the southwest of your capital. [19:20] [BetaHound] [19:20] [BetaHound] yes - Harry - just wrapping up. [19:20] [GhengisFarb] Gamecatcher claims they have no contact with CFC though. [19:20] [BetaHound] So - one last question - what were we talking about all night in here. [19:21] [GhengisFarb] You were trying to make us a deal to get settle space on Bob [19:21] [[GoW]Panzer32] our alliance against Lego [19:21] [Konquest] space on Bob is good... [19:21] [BetaHound] GF - agreed. [19:21] [BetaHound] But we still have not reached an af=greement. [19:21] [HarryH] I like the deal about space on Bob. It goes with our 'landing' and subsequent war. [19:21] [GhengisFarb] And no ground was made we just pissed each other off. [19:22] [BetaHound] GS was always advising us to try diplomacy first. [19:22] [BetaHound] Well - we tried - but you guys ... [19:22] [BetaHound] We ra ecoming to get you. An armed settler!! [19:22] [[GoW]Panzer32] eek!!! [19:23] [Konquest] [19:23] [GhengisFarb] I wish I had armed settlers, we could call the unit Israelis [19:23] [BetaHound] And on a more serious note gentlemen - may we taost - to Victory! [19:23] [BetaHound] And death to GS! [19:23] [Konquest] to Victory! To no more GS! [19:23] [GhengisFarb] To the death of GS [19:24] [BetaHound] Cheers!

	06-04-2003 05:16									#84
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Okay, I played 800 BC, but have a family gathering thing and have to go. Need to get a world map uploaded now that we have Vox's map attached.

	07-04-2003 04:41									#85
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

quote: Declare War Also sent to GF and Donegeal. Greetings from Vox! It would be very helpful if you would declare war on us this turn, and then start a thread screaming at us for landing on the continent. Two galleys. Three spearman and an Immortal. More to come Thanks ... Beta.

Lets get going

	07-04-2003 06:46									#86
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It won't let me declare war.

	07-04-2003 07:12									#87
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by GhengisFarb It won't let me declare war.

EDIT: Fuggedabout what I said...

	07-04-2003 07:53									#88
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Goto treaty, active and renegotiate peace. then cancel out of treaty and it will ask if you want to declare war.

Or does this not work in MP?


I Tested It::: It WORKS. So :doitnow:

Last edited by Zero on 07-04-2003 at 08:25

	07-04-2003 08:05									#89
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

Didnt ND declare war on Vox ??

Anyway, we dont need the game mechanics just to say we are at war.

GoW claim that Vox have relanded a settler & immortals.
Vox claims it was written in our agreement that we would reimburse them for the city....and we didnt.

We claim that there was no such agreement ... it wasnt ratified.

We give Vox 1 round to remove their settler...or even just declare war but say that we dont have the forces in position ready to attack.

ie...we can say we are at war, and are just manouvering troops into position.

"oh my god...they just landed another 4 immortals !!!"


GF - Are you sure you cant declare war ??
How about in the diplo screen...where it says active deals.
Click on active deals. Peace should be there.
Click on peace...and you should declare war.

I've done this way in SP..but not in MP....(I think)

Regs

	07-04-2003 08:28									#90
	Support Apolyton, pre-order Civilization IV

HE, I explained the same procedure too, just not as descriptive I guess... I also said ill test it... and it works

anyway, I agree. We gotta start a flame thread on public PTWDemo forum. Someone start one now!