22-02-2003 05:34									#271
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Isn't the State de France good enough for it

	22-02-2003 05:44									#272
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quote: Originally posted by Frozzy Isn't the State de France good enough for it

No, the Stade de France can welcome 80,000 supporters when the Parc des Princes can hold 50,000 supporters but the Stade de France is opened to the air when the Parc des Princes is like a closed pressure-cooker. Two times more noise and a warm atmosphere where the Stade de France is a cold place. I have seen two French Championship finals in the Parc des Princes and two others in the Stade de France and they can not be compared in any way.

	22-02-2003 05:47									#273
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quote: Originally posted by finbar The Blues were terrific. They lost Carlos Spencer before the match with a knee injury but his replacement - Ai'i - was outstanding. They made many fewer mistakes in the conditions, their defence was powerful, and the counter-attacking was terrific. They were a lot more confident and aggressive than some of the Blues teams of recent years. It obviously helped that the Waratahs only played about 8 minutes of fluent rugby for the match and the scoreline ultimately flattered the Waratahs with two tries in the last 8 minutes when they actually looked like a decent team.

Well, I will be taping the two games I mentioned and watching them in the morning. What are your picks? I reckon the Highlanders will get a suprise win over the Crusaders, seeing as they did so well against the Chiefs. I expect the Brimbies will beat the Reds without too much trouble...

	22-02-2003 05:48									#274
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quote: Originally posted by Frozzy The Crusaders will fall flat on their faces this year, IMO.

Why do you say that?

	22-02-2003 06:42									#275
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia Well, I will be taping the two games I mentioned and watching them in the morning. What are your picks? I reckon the Highlanders will get a suprise win over the Crusaders, seeing as they did so well against the Chiefs. I expect the Brimbies will beat the Reds without too much trouble...

I saw quite a bit of the Highlanders match. There wasn't anything sufficiently astonishing to suggest they would beat the Crusaders - the Crusaders of last season, anyway.

The Reds -v- Brumbies will be interesting to see. The Reds have a new coach - former Wallaby skipper and Reds assistant coach Andrew Slack - and, it is said, a new approach to the game. Formerly pretty dour and seemingly incapable of using their talent out wide - Tune and Latham - it's said they're going to play more expansively this season. We shall see. The Reds' real problem is their lack of depth. Their run-on team looks strong, but there's not much to back it up. It will also be interesting to see how the Brumbies bounce back from their très ordinaire trial form in which essentially second-string Brumbies teams were hammered by all and sundry.

	22-02-2003 08:07									#276
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quote: Originally posted by finbar You certainly do have enough Civ gold left. Here's our current bank balance: Andydog 186 Caligastia 37 finbar 123.5 Havak 60 LDiCesares 111 Mickeyj 143.5 NeoStar 114 ravagon 94 redbull 80 Tamerlin 59 So enough of this pussyfooting around and put some Civ gold where your ladle is! I'm willing to bet you - here and now - 50 Civ gold that the ABs will win the WRC. What about it?

Either my civ gold was playing the stock market in the off-season or you've dredged up an older bank balance .... this dates back to the days when I knew what a 50 civ-gold piece looked like ...
IIRC I was down to about 30 or so (but still ahead of somebody ).

Its still far too early for my liking to put anything on the AB's as favourites - not, mind you, that I have serious doubts about the side - rather I'd like to see everybody else play a round or two first.
(Yes, I know - chicken! )

quote: The Crusaders will fall flat on their faces this year, IMO.

That's a pretty bold statement there, given their form last year. Not that it will necessarily follow of course.
Anything to back it up with by any chance?

	22-02-2003 08:23									#277
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Should I stay up and watch Crusaders v Hurricanes live at 1:30 am, or go to bed and watch it in the morning? If one of you guys watch it at the same time I might be persuaded...

Last edited by Caligastia on 22-02-2003 at 08:57

	22-02-2003 08:49									#278
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Crusaders won't play well because:

a) Injuries hampered the side pre-season, and only a few played NPC, where Canturbury dumped out in the semis.

b) The other sides, especially the Blues, have fresh faces in their sides... and from what I see the Crusaders still have the old guard from last season. Sure... they're experienced enough, but do they have the "freshness" of the new sides?

c) I'm from Waikato. I dislike the Crusaders.

d) Lack of play for most. Many of the top Crusaders didn't play NPC, and most were injured before the ABs tour of Europe.

e) Subtle feeling. I just don't think the Crusaders will cut it this year, and I haven't seen enough in the NPC to disprove this.

I'll watch Crusaders Hurricanes, and if the Crusaders don't smoke Wellington then it'll back up my feeling.

	22-02-2003 08:50									#279
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And Cali! Get your Kiwi flag back dammit!

	22-02-2003 08:57									#280
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quote: Originally posted by Frozzy And Cali! Get your Kiwi flag back dammit!

I don't know what happened to it, but it's back again now.

Are you watching the Crusaders/Hurricanes live?

	22-02-2003 09:02									#281
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Naturally

	22-02-2003 09:02									#282
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So will you be on here for a few posts at half time?

	22-02-2003 09:03									#283
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quote: Originally posted by Frozzy c) I'm from Waikato. I dislike the Crusaders.

In my own opinion this is the most sensible argument.

	22-02-2003 09:06									#284
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Cali, probably... depends if I remember

Tamerlin:

	22-02-2003 09:16									#285
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quote: Originally posted by ravagon Either my civ gold was playing the stock market in the off-season or you've dredged up an older bank balance .... this dates back to the days when I knew what a 50 civ-gold piece looked like ... IIRC I was down to about 30 or so (but still ahead of somebody ).

This is actually our current Bank A/c balance. I hunted through the OT archives till I found it. The one I posted was slightly out of date. Regardless, ravagon, you're far from bankrupt!

Andydog 286.5
Bearcat 80.5
Caligastia 67
finbar 56.5
Havak 106.55
Journeyman 122.5
LDiCesares 141.8
Mickeyj 143.5
NeoStar 114
ravagon 77.75
redbull 80
Tamerlin 69.3

	22-02-2003 10:02									#286
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Ahhh...bugger it... I'm going to bed...

	22-02-2003 10:14									#287
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What about the upcoming game between England and Wales? It looks to be a slaughter from where I stand. The English will likely take the Dragons apart piece by bloody piece, unless the Welsh pack sharpens up and even than I still thank that the men in red will get served.

Italy-Ireland should be an interesting match, with the Azzuri pumped up after their win over one of the traditional NH sides and second 6N win ever. I think the Irish will win though.

France-Scotland looks to be another no contest, sadly. Hopefully the Scots will put up a better showing than the Welsh did last week

	22-02-2003 12:20									#288
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Halftime, and Crusaders lead Hurricanes 11-8

Not much to report... Mehrtens' boot dividing the two after a try apiece. Crusaders look good going forward on the flanks, but look very dodgy down the middle and the Hurricanes have gotten a couple of breaks there...

	22-02-2003 13:15									#289
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Crusaders 37 -d- Hurricanes 21

Crusaders far from stunning, Mehrtens saves the day again, and the back line wasn't what we saw last year, especially in the centre. Saying that, the Crusaders looked dangerous on the flanks, and the forward pack played well, and stopped any driving from the Hurricanes.

I don't think the Crusaders look indomitable, but tonight wasn't really deserving of a "test" for the champions.

	22-02-2003 13:36									#290
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Reds score a try in 21 seconds

That must be a record!

	22-02-2003 19:43									#291
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Brumbies 22 -d- Reds 19

A game of some quality considering the torrential rain. Chris Latham's try for the Reds after 21 seconds must be close to some sort of record. A chip and chase after gathering the return from the kick off and no one back for the Brumbies. The Brumbies did well considering they were down a man for most of the second half after a red card. The Reds did very well considering they were determined to play an expansive game in the terrible conditions. As had been suggested, the Reds have taken a much more aggressive, fluid approach, a refreshing change from their dour ways of old, and a sensible one given the talent they have available - Latham, Tune, et al - on the outside.

And, wonder of wonders, George Gregan actually made a couple of darting runs with the ball.

The interesting things to come out of this first S12 round, though, are the patently obvious directions that have been given to the referees:

1. Entering from the side is being very severely policed. In fact, Totai Kefu, Reds skipper, was sinbinned for it late in the game.

2. At the breakdown, the first priority is clearly the tackler rolling away from the tackled player. It is also being severely policed. The tackled player releasing the ball is being policed, but the refs' primary focus is on the tackler rolling away.

	22-02-2003 19:46									#292
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quote: Originally posted by Frozzy I don't think the Crusaders look indomitable, but tonight wasn't really deserving of a "test" for the champions.

I think you're right. The Crusaders' class simply told in the end.

	22-02-2003 21:15									#293
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Italy - Ireland: 13 - 37.
Very beautiful match. Both teams played all-game long. The Italians managed to score a try, which is a good thing and reflects their much improved game. Ireland has been awesome in lineouts and mauls, and has astounding back line. They made several mistakes in the first half, but their strong scrum prevented the Italians from profitting from it. Dominguez replacement by a (still hurt) Pez didn't benefit the Italians either, as Humphreys pierced twice around his opponent, leading to 2 tries.
The Irish full back has been quite good too. I think that team is going to be very hard to play in Dublin for both France and England. Their backs are known to be good, but the performance of their scrum is where the danger can come. If they gain balls in lineouts and manage mauls as they did, it will be very hard for England to beat them. France, of course, is hard to predict.

Now I have to decide whether I don't sleep and wait till 2 A.M. to watch Wales-England, or to see only half of the match tomorrow afternoon, just before France hopefully beats Scotland to a pulp.

	22-02-2003 23:18									#294
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Brumbies 22 -d- Reds 19 A game of some quality considering the torrential rain. Chris Latham's try for the Reds after 21 seconds must be close to some sort of record. A chip and chase after gathering the return from the kick off and no one back for the Brumbies. The Brumbies did well considering they were down a man for most of the second half after a red card. The Reds did very well considering they were determined to play an expansive game in the terrible conditions. As had been suggested, the Reds have taken a much more aggressive, fluid approach, a refreshing change from their dour ways of old, and a sensible one given the talent they have available - Latham, Tune, et al - on the outside.

I'm a bit disappointed in the Reds actually. I always support the team that plays the Brumbies, and it would have been great to see them off to a shabby start. Considering the Reds were a man up for almost half the game they should have won. It all came down to the last two kicks in the end...

I did find it to be a more entertaining game than the Crusaders/Hurricanes game though.

Thank God! Rugby is back on TV again!

	23-02-2003 03:22									#295
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quote: The interesting things to come out of this first S12 round, though, are the patently obvious directions that have been given to the referees: 1. Entering from the side is being very severely policed. In fact, Totai Kefu, Reds skipper, was sinbinned for it late in the game. 2. At the breakdown, the first priority is clearly the tackler rolling away from the tackled player. It is also being severely policed. The tackled player releasing the ball is being policed, but the refs' primary focus is on the tackler rolling away.

Interestingly, both are quite severely penalized in the 6 nations too. Last week France suffered a lot from the "entering from the side", and today the English referee of Italy-Ireland oten told the tackler to move away.

	23-02-2003 04:59									#296
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I'm a bit disappointed in the Reds actually. I always support the team that plays the Brumbies, and it would have been great to see them off to a shabby start. Considering the Reds were a man up for almost half the game they should have won. It all came down to the last two kicks in the end... I did find it to be a more entertaining game than the Crusaders/Hurricanes game though.

Yes, the Reds could have won it with straighter kicking at the end. And, yes, the Brumbies were a man down, but I'd rather be missing a prop than a lot of other positions. The prop was replaced for scrums and the Reds pack were given a bit of a hiding on the night anyway.

Looked at in the context of Reds -v- Brumbies history, though, the Reds did pretty well. They've always struggled against the Brumbies and they came out and played a very different style of game - spreading the ball - in conditions that didn't suit.

I agree that it was a more entertaining game than the Crusaders -v- Hurricanes effort.

quote: Thank God! Rugby is back on TV again!

Hallelujah!

	23-02-2003 05:12									#297
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quote: Originally posted by LDiCesare Interestingly, both are quite severely penalized in the 6 nations too. Last week France suffered a lot from the "entering from the side", and today the English referee of Italy-Ireland oten told the tackler to move away.

Yes, it's obviously a directive from the IRB, probably aiming at the WRC. Though these sorts of priorities should have been established before this. The interpretation at the breakdown has been a mess for a while. The emphasis now seems to be on maintaining the flow of play by preventing the defence from slowing it down. It remains to be seen how long the tackled player will be given to release the ball. There have been inconsistencies in this area too.

The "entering from the side" is being very strictly policed. Before, both NH and SH refs allowed marginal diagonal entry - as distinct from side entry - providing the player had come from behind. Now, the entry has to be, literally, in a straight line from behind.

	23-02-2003 06:19									#298
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BTW, gents, when I trawled through the OT Archives looking for our current Bank A/c balance, I updated the number of posts we've all made since our dedicated Rugby threads started last year. Prior to this current thread, we had totalled

3,388

posts between us.

I hope we're all truly ashamed of ourselves and vow to get ourselves real lives.

	23-02-2003 08:28									#299
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One of England's goals going into their game was to not allow a try by the Welsh, according to Clive Woodward. Has Wales sunk that low in the opinion of other 6N teams?

	23-02-2003 09:39									#300
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Sorry, I stayed away from the Internet today because I didn't want to know the result of Wales-England. The English players have been impressive today in front of courageous and able Welsh players, a very entertaining game.

I looked at the game broadcasted around 2 am, England wins 26-9 though the Welsh players should have scored a try (Taylor forgot two players to its left) and would have deserved to score another one, the score does not reflect the real physiognomy of the game though England has logically won.

Very entertaining game...