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Havak
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Swing Low, Sweet Chariots.
Aug 1999
time: 05:25
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although usually it's only the winning team saying it, to be nice to the defeated team. |
I think that’s right Bearcat – on the losing side I always tended to say “well done” or “well played” (however much I was seething inside). 
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Thus far you have avoided the challenge. |
If I take that bet and Cal’s I won’t have much left for the tri-series or warm up games?
Never the less I have never enjoyed being accused of perching on a fence so I fancy that bet – Australia are favourites and if they don’t win England or France will.  When was the last time the ABs beat any of those sides again? I love the All Blacks in some ways but they are very like England in that they blow the big games most of the time (RWC 91, 95, 99 for example) however well they have played before the offending game as well.
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Until then, we might have to consider them pretenders. |
Havn’t I always maintained I accept that until such time as we beat yourselves and the ABs a few times running at your places (or even once will do).
What I like now is that two (arguably three) NH sides have reached a point where they can compete to the current IRB laws with SH sides. In some ways Irelands demolition of you was a real milestone for the sport? 
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A brave attempt at wriggling out of a corner but futile. |
If a little unfair. The All Blacks did what they always do when they fell a team can better them – avoid that team for six years. As close as those results in 72 and 78 were I have no doubts the Welsh sides in between those dates were a better side than the ABs. I strongly suggest you check out the 73 and 75 games against Australia. Look at results in the same six year period against England and France in those two countries. Do not underestimate the achievements of that Welsh side. And ask youself this – why do the ABs avoid teams for long periods, sometimes for a decade? You think it’s pure coincidence?
Now will you look at that – you got me defending Wales!!! 
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At least someone is resisting George Witless. |
It is important I suppose. With Tony rushing to become head of the 51st State.
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the American self-interest that lies behind their plan for, um, "regime change", is a thousand times more outrageous. |
I’m not daft – I see it for what it is, a twofold strategy of securing a huge oil reserve for US use and even more critically a son trying to correct his fathers career ending error. I truly believe the latter is more the driving force myself.
At the same time I would shed no tears to see Sadam out of this world.
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He's so far up George Witless' a*se he could clean Witless' teeth from the inside. |
If you see him ask him to say Hello to Tony from me next time his is up there? 
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Far from it. The place will be packed with Australians barracking for Les Bleus! |
I’d still need a ticket. The chance to see so many disappointed Australians again would be hard to resist.
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It was Havak who enlarged the claim to have the 1970s Red Devils as the best of all time. And was promptly shot down in flames. |
I should have been clearer that I don’t give a monkies which of the Welsh or AB sides of the Seventies try to lay claim to that title. The England side of this century has a far better claim to that honourific.
Let me see when was the last time the ABs or Wallabies beat the other four sides in the top five in direct sequence….hmmm?
Now I hope you guys appreciate all the hard work I do setting myself up for a fall?
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I don't know what you are speaking about... |
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Incomplete sentence: "... in terms of adopting amended directives." |
I stand corrected. Now could you answer the point on comparative compliance between our countries please?
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I agree but exemptions should not become the rule. |
Again I can’t see us ever voluntarily giving any exemptions up. Stubborness maybe?
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Its success can only be evaluated in the long term and believe me I know its cost as I am paying it every day... |
You make good points. I do think it has wider problems though. Calling it the Euro was a fatal one. You could have had the UK in from the start had it been called for example “sterling”. Yes my countrymen are that superficial. But seriously a neutral name would have helped. Call it a “Jonno” or a “Magne” and it would have been fine – but ‘Euro’ automatically triggers the Brit isolationist reflex I am afraid.
I’m not an economist – but I also don’t understand how the weaker economies contribute anything useful to the Euro? Places like Ireland and Portugal that is?
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Ferdinand de Lesseps (I had to find a french one) |
London, Paris and Vienna still are beacons. The combined population of the UK and France for example makes a number even the US cannot ignore when combined. And there I have accidentally hit on the strength of the EU have I not?
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The colonial mind set has not died but the colonial Empire has. |
We still have the Shetland Isles.
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As you can see we are still at the core the same little pests you have tried to get rid of for a thousand years. |
I prefer to think of it that we both felt we would be the best landlord for the other?
It’s worth pointing out that militarily we have been rock solid allies for over a hundred years now (scary isn’t it?)
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I don't think France and Germany are only defending their interests here but are rather trying to enforce a policy they consider is the right one and the better for the future. Moreover USA should not be allowed to dictate their policy over the world by ignoring the rest of the world. |
Here I disagree. I see no evidence at all that France and Germany are acting out of the goodness of their hearts inside the EC. And yes it sucks that the US say jump and the world says how high – but the big dog rules the pack, the world has always been that way?
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These are exactly the arguments used by Jeff Probyn and unfortunately I think you are right. |
I was careful to avoid assaying whether I liked it or not. I think it’s inevitable that’s all.
By the way – the Australians are perversely proud of that prison heritage – the tour guides are always pointing out the original landing sites where the ‘Crims’ first set foot and the locations of original penal camps. They think we did them a favour – after all they get better weather and a better standard of living apparently – or at least a lot of them say that to you (and I bet most of those saying it have never left Oz eh Finbar?)
Poor old Finbar – a clever word play about Austria and Tanerlin missed it in the translation.
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Tamerlin
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Toulouse (South-western France)
Apr 2002
time: 06:25
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Originally posted by Havak
It is important I suppose. With Tony rushing to become head of the 51st State. |
It could be funny to hear the "Continental" Americans calling you the "Colony"...
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I’m not daft – I see it for what it is, a twofold strategy of securing a huge oil reserve for US use and even more critically a son trying to correct his fathers career ending error. I truly believe the latter is more the driving force myself. |
In my opinion feelings have nothing to do with politics. 
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At the same time I would shed no tears to see Sadam out of this world. |
This is true for all the dictators and for all the people exploiting the misery and ignorance of the human beings all around the world.
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I should have been clearer that I don’t give a monkies which of the Welsh or AB sides of the Seventies try to lay claim to that title. The England side of this century has a far better claim to that honourific. |
Win the World Cup (remember you won't as France will win it) and I will perhaps consider about supporting your claim.
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I stand corrected. Now could you answer the point on comparative compliance between our countries please? |
NO! 
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Again I can’t see us ever voluntarily giving any exemptions up. Stubborness maybe? |
In my opinion this is actually the problem, as far ast the EC is concerned the UK would like "le beurre et l'argent du beurre" (the butter and the money of the butter) and perhaps even f**** with the dairywoman.
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You make good points. I do think it has wider problems though. Calling it the Euro was a fatal one. You could have had the UK in from the start had it been called for example “sterling”. Yes my countrymen are that superficial. But seriously a neutral name would have helped. Call it a “Jonno” or a “Magne” and it would have been fine – but ‘Euro’ automatically triggers the Brit isolationist reflex I am afraid.[/I]
An isolationist reflex that has been carefully tended and encouraged by your politicians for almost 50 years now, a kind of brainwash. The UK will come back to the EC when your country will no more have the means to pay for its isolationist policy, a policy which is doomed to failure in my own opinion.
[QUOTE]I’m not an economist – but I also don’t understand how the weaker economies contribute anything useful to the Euro? Places like Ireland and Portugal that is? |
I am not an economist myself but one of the goals of the EC is to pull them up, every member will benefit from the growth and the modernization of the weaker economies. Europe as a whole as the potential to become the greatest market in the world and we have the opportunity to shape a new superpower that will help create a new balance of power that is IMHO much needed. Moreover, united economies would allow us to be much less dependant from the USA and I hope one day our childrens will no more catch Influenza because Georges W. Bush the XIVth has sneezed. 
The goal of the EC is no more economical only (it is no more called EEC), it is also political and strive to reach goals far beyond the creation of a single market though we must admit the economical aspect is fundamental as it will give the EC the mean to achieve the expected results.
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London, Paris and Vienna still are beacons. The combined population of the UK and France for example makes a number even the US cannot ignore when combined. And there I have accidentally hit on the strength of the EU have I not? |
Exactly, this is the political aspect I was writing about earlier in this post.
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We still have the Shetland Isles. |
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I prefer to think of it that we both felt we would be the best landlord for the other? |
I am shivering at the idea of being ruled by a Monarchy.
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It’s worth pointing out that militarily we have been rock solid allies for over a hundred years now (scary isn’t it?) |
And it is a good thing as we would not be able to achieve anything in a house divided. 
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Here I disagree. I see no evidence at all that France and Germany are acting out of the goodness of their hearts inside the EC. And yes it sucks that the US say jump and the world says how high – but the big dog rules the pack, the world has always been that way? |
Of course Germany and France are furthering their own interests and we would be fools to oppose the USA without any interest in acting this way but I sincerely believe this is also for the best of the whole EC.
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Poor old Finbar – a clever word play about Austria and Tamerlin missed it in the translation. |
I have missed it, I can't say the countrary. 
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finbar
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Castiglion Fiorentino, Italy
Jan 1970
time: 06:25
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Originally posted by Havak
Nothing at all. Though taking your money will be painful. |
The spooky thing, I've just realised, is that I'm going to have to make a painful choice between heart and pocket when lending my support during the WRC!
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It?s not the first time I?ve committed it to writing. |
I know it's not. Just consider it part of your therapy.
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It is still possible for me to also say that based on the last four games they have played that no test playing nation in the world has done as well as England. We are, on those terms, number one. |
Yes, in the same way that McDonalds is the best foodstuff in the world because it's the most consumed. I say again - lies, damned lies and statistics!
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I thought you were Italian? |
If only! I'm utterly convinced that the safest place in the world to be when terrorists are releasing poison gas and flying planes into tall buildings is ensconced in a wee Umbrian hill town.
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Don?t underestimate familial obligation. George Junior seems to be George senior writ small. |
I don't underestimate it. This time, though, I think it's the Cheneys and Rumsfelds, et al, who are in the driving seat. Witless is just the mouthpiece, and not a patch on his old man in terms of nouse. Apart from the obvious attraction of Iraq's oil, there are billions and billions to be made by American companies out of the "rebuilding" of post-war Iraq.
There was a nice article in this morning's paper outlining Cheney's activities post-Desert Storm. Shortly after it ended, he quit the Administration to head the oil corporation that, lo and behold, secured many of the contracts to resurrect those oil businesses that Saddam destroyed in the final days of the war.
Thus I think the Americans want to invade Iraq for a whole multitude of reasons. Finishing last time's unfinished job is one of them, for sure, but installing a US-friendly government in the region (unlike, for example, the Saudi relationship which is one of expediency); unfettered access to the oil; the business opportunities; and so on, are higher up the list.
The tragic thing about the whole exercise, though, is that the Americans have learned absolutely nothing from even their most recent exercise in Afghanistan. Afghanistan is now, again, largely a lawless place - as it was pre-Russian invasion - with a token American presence effectively acting as bodyguard to an American-appointed leader while the real power lies with the various warlords. Well done, America. Boot out the Taliban and leave the place ripe for picking by the next fundamentalist group.
Wiping out an existing regime is one thing, but replacing it with something else is another very different thing in countries where the politics aren't black and white, where tribalism is the way, where factionalism is the way, and where alliances are temporary in the extreme. It's this breathtaking arrogance that the Americans think something resembling the only political system they know will suddenly take root and prosper in lands where such systems have never prospered and never will.
It's exactly the sort of arrogance that led to a couple of jumbos being flown into the WTC and the American government will not - can not - learn.
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He does superbly well as does LdiCesare. And it was a subtle one. I just thought you should know someone picked it. |
Thanks! Some of them trip off the (as it were) tongue, some i actually craft.
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So is it true ? are all script editors really failed writers? |
Interesting topic, this one. Some are, some aren't. The thing is, while writing and script editing are very closely related, they are, in fact, entirely different disciplines. Some of the best script editors can't write to save themselves. Some very good writers make very good script editors. Some very good writers make appalling script editors. The mark of a good script editor is when he or she does what's required, but - and this is the crucial part - the work is invisible. In other words, the best script editors amend only what needs to be amended, but, in relation to the writer's work, seamlessly. It means the amendments are not only sympathetic to the writer's overall intentions but also sympathetic to the writer's style. The mark of a bad script editor is the imposition of the editor's own style on the writer's work.
I both write and script edit. Believe me, when editing, it takes an enormous amount of discipline to honour the writer's style. It's very easy - and much quicker - simply to amend in the way that I would have written it. And that's the trap that has to be avoided.
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Tamerlin
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Toulouse (South-western France)
Apr 2002
time: 06:25
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Sorry you feel angry about us Caligastia but:
1 - You were supposed to be less active on the thread because of the web management policy of your company.
2 - Most of our critics are targetting the american government and not the americans themselves, the others are generally jokes (bad taste ones of course).
3 - The US government is playing the Sorcerer's Apprentice since the post WW2 era and the world now have to deal with the worst consequences of its acts.
4 - Though the US government has the right to defend itself this does not mean it has the right to attack another country which is not a direct threat to the safety of its citizens without the consent of the UN, the US government is more or less turning the UN into the old Société des Nations and we all know what were the consequences.
5 - Today is the last day of the first French Championship phase, the Stade Toulousain is playing against the Sporting Union Agenais. What promised to be a tough and entertaining game will almost be a friendly game as whatever the result the two teams will end first (Agen) and second (the Stade Toulousain ) and most of the internationals will be put to rest.
6 - Without the americans I would not play Role Playing Games as the good and best ones are coming from this country, I wouldn't play the greatest tabletop wargames and boargames in the world as they are designing them (I would be certainly more successfull in business but I would have a boring life), I would not listen the what is IMO the best music in the world (be it Jazz or Hardcore rock), I would not play wonderful PC games like Call to Power 2, Sid Meier's Alpha Centaury, Space Empires 4 Gold or People's General, I would not read SF or fantasy books as they are writing the best ones (C. J. Cherry, Tim Powers, Ursula Le Guin, Larry Niven, Robert Heinlein...), I would not have the opportunity to enjoy the movies from the golden era of the 1950s and 1960s (though the french movies of this time were also exceptional) along with some gems produced nowadays (though most of the movies coming from the USA are today, IMO, pure dogs)...
7 - To sum up I love the americans but I don't support their government
8 - Can Havak and I still talk about the European Community?
9 - quote:
...am married to an American |
Nobody's perfect...
10 - Are the americans humans? 
I think so!
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Caligastia
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Here's the thing guys, I started these rugby threads for one reason only - for the discussion of rugby. I like you guys, and for this reason I don't want to get drawn into an endless ***-for-tat political argument. I could argue my side of course, but I'm not interested in changing any of your minds, and you probably aren't interested in changing mine. I respect your right to hold different views from me, but I'm not interested in hashing these things out in a rugby thread. There are plenty of other threads on Apolyton where you can air your political views, so why air them in this one? For me this thread is a welcome break from the constant barrage of left-wing bile that is so prevalent in the OT forum.
I've nothing against some slight deviation from the topic every now and then, but when it's a constant one-sided political viewpoint I get very sick of it. I'm here to talk rugby, is that too much to ask?
BTW Havak, I don't want you to feel like I don't want a response from you to what I said, so feel free to PM me or respond to me in another thread. I don't mind having a political discussion with you guys, just not here.
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Bearcat
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Oregonia
Dec 1999
time: 05:25
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Here is the result of the Eastside-Tualatin Valley match.
I had forboding fears of a blowout by TV before game time as they were one of the better Oregon U-19 teams last year. But the game got off to a great start for us as we rucked well and pretty much kept the ball moving forward against them. They also got hammered by consistent penalties for diving over the ruck. We managed to put the first try on the board, when our outside center bludgeoned his way in, putting us up 5-0. That was the score at the half. The next half went more their way. They put a try on the board and converted to make it 5-7. We started having more difficulties with our rucks and had problems keeping the ball in forward motion. They put another try on the board near the final 10 minutes to make it 5-12. We started the ball upfield though on a great, long run by our flyhalf into their half of the field.
We managed to get inside their 22 and finally to their 5, as they kept getting consistent penalties for diving over the ruck and offsides among others. At about 5 out we took the tap kick and handed it to our very large #5 who took it in at the outside of the try area for 5. Our flyhalf converted to tie it at 12, which was the final score. It would have been nice to win, but I'll settle for a tie in this case, taking into account who the opposition was.
The match stayed fairly clean, although one of TVs players got sin-binned for diving over the ruck and I traded punches with one of their locks (I think it was a lock). All in all it was a good game, with fair skies and the ground was good. I look forward to next Saturday.
Oh, and go Highlanders
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28-02-2003 08:51
Cripes!! Caligastia is Jonah!! 
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