20-02-2003 16:33									#241
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quote: Tony Blair has his pre-emptive attack, Havak has his pre-emptive defence.

We don't have a lot in common. I'm a Labour suporter after all.

quote: Actually I'm not unique around here. There are others. Unfortunately you're unlikely to meet them in crowded pubs.

I wasn't trying to tar the whole nation, but rather highlighting the element that seems drawn to pass considerable comment towards people wearing 'Pommy' Rugger shirts.

	20-02-2003 17:58									#242
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quote: Originally posted by Havak We don't have a lot in common. I'm a Labour suporter after all.

quote: I wasn't trying to tar the whole nation, but rather highlighting the element that seems drawn to pass considerable comment towards people wearing 'Pommy' Rugger shirts.

Good grief. Even I might be tempted to pass - well, something in the direction of someone wearing a Pom rugby jumper.

Interesting snippets on the first night of the rugby show on FoxSports tonight. Campo appeared and was sensible and restrained for a change, making some fair points and even offering some shrewd analysis. His tips for the S12 end-of-season rankings were by far the most realistic: Crusaders, Blues, one of the Bok teams (I forget which), Brumbies, Waratahs, etc.

He also has a very high regard for your Wilko, and offered two insights:

1. After the Test -v- Wallabies last year, Wilko told Campo that "the backs don't talk to me out there".

2. Wilko has a couple of injections in his shoulder prior to taking the field. How long term is he, do you think? Another Steve Larkham, presumably. He'll play till he's battered out of the game.

	20-02-2003 20:34									#243
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quote: Originally posted by Tamerlin And you know what you are speaking about, don't you ?

	20-02-2003 20:48									#244
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Heh there is hope for you yet – depending on where in England of course.

heh...Cornwall. He doesn't really have a cornish accent though. Probably because his family is not originally from there.

quote: Then again maybe not… It’s not like you to slavishly follow an Aussie media stereotype? Find me a specific quote of England gloating straight after a loss and I’ll accept this.

What?! You want me to back up my statement with evidence?! That's asking a bit much isn't it?

*Caligastia reels in an enormous Leicester cod*

Just joking mate. I couldn't resist the urge to fire you up.

quote: Keep in mind you will have to work hard to beat “we brought a development side so even though we lost (and were also s**** and lucky against France) we are the best side in the world”

Actually I wouldn't say we are the best right now, but that's only because it's been a while since I've seen an AB team that incorporated all our best players.

quote: I enjoy this give and take banter.

It's good for a laugh.

quote: I suspect it is worse for him actually as his background might get him barracked by the colonial ‘pure bloods’ down in the boonies of NZ??

Nah, my accent is so mixed I just sound exotic wherever I am.

quote: In fact France, Ireland and England are all capable of turning over the SH ‘superpowers’ now – it’s only the venue that weighs in SH favour this time around.

You think Ireland are in a position to beat the All Blacks?! I'll assume that comment was just some bile rising after your last pint of bitter.

NIce avatar BTW!

	20-02-2003 21:26									#245
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quote: Even I might be tempted to pass - well, something in the direction of someone wearing a Pom rugby jumper.

Heckle someone simply honouring the birthplace of the beautiful game? Surely not.

Interesting insights from Campo – but I’d like them both verified by a Pom I think. Well okay not the first one that we know is true but the second – there aren’t many things you can take before a game that are legal?

Longevity is a good point – the way the kid tackles at some point his body is going to break. I’d rather he was a Mehrtens in some way and powder puffed at the contacts.

quote: Cornwall. He doesn't really have a cornish accent though. Probably because his family is not originally from there.

I knew it!!! Your origins are Celtic!!

(Havak conveniently ignores the fact you said he wasn’t originally from there).

quote: What?! You want me to back up my statement with evidence?! That's asking a bit much isn't it?

Finbar tries it on me occasionally so I thought it worth a punt?

quote: *Caligastia reels in an enormous Leicester cod* Just joking mate. I couldn't resist the urge to fire you up.

And I knew I was taking the bait nicely – No Worries, like yourself I love a bit of rugger banter.

quote: Actually I wouldn't say we are the best right now, but that's only because it's been a while since I've seen an AB team that incorporated all our best players.[/quotes] This reads brilliantly you know – it gives with one hand then takes back with the other… [quote] Nah, my accent is so mixed I just sound exotic wherever I am.

Best avoid Wales then – they will automatically assume you are English.

quote: You think Ireland are in a position to beat the All Blacks?! I'll assume that comment was just some bile rising after your last pint of bitter.

I said they were capable of it didn’t I? If not that is what I meant to say. And they are. It would make a huge difference to the odds if it were in Dublin I have to admit.

I thought it was time to Avatar up for the RWC?

	20-02-2003 21:40									#246
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I knew it!!! Your origins are Celtic!! (Havak conveniently ignores the fact you said he wasn’t originally from there).

They are anyway, I'm descended from Irish settlers on my Mum's side. Oops, have I said too much?

quote: Best avoid Wales then – they will automatically assume you are English.

Only Americans have done that so far. Although I almost fainted in shock when one of them actually guessed NZ once.

quote: I said they were capable of it didn’t I? If not that is what I meant to say. And they are. It would make a huge difference to the odds if it were in Dublin I have to admit.

NZ being beaten by Ireland anywhere is not a concept I can grasp... Considering they have never beaten NZ, that must mean you think NZ are at an all-time low. Can you pass on your opinion to the English rugby team? I want to build up false hope.

quote: I thought it was time to Avatar up for the RWC?

I did notice, though, that the red of the rose isn't as red as the red in your english flag. Perhaps you could get that fixed in photoshop.

	21-02-2003 03:28									#247
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Interesting insights from Campo ? but I?d like them both verified by a Pom I think. Well okay not the first one that we know is true but the second ? there aren?t many things you can take before a game that are legal?

I'd assume it's a painkiller. A lot of players have pain-killing injections before (and even during) games in many sports. It's widely publicised. I've never known how or why they don't breach the drugs rules. I'd've thought a pain killer was, by definition, performance enhancing. OTOH, I suppose the ingredients of these pain killers aren't on the banned list.

	21-02-2003 14:02									#248
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The Super 12 kicks off and my Chiefs lose to the Highlanders 29-16. Being at the game I can report a good atmosphere

However, the Chiefs gave away too many penalties, and showed the same teething problems as Waikato had in the NPC competition last year. Slack passing and gave away too many penalties.

IIRC, Willie Walker (I resist the temptation to call him Willie Wonka) scored 8 penalties for Otago compared to Glen Jackson's 3 for the Chiefs. Although in the 2nd half both teams scored a try, it was slack passing and giving away penalties which lost it for my Chiefs in the end

All I can say is bring on the Blues

	21-02-2003 14:33									#249
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quote: They are anyway, I'm descended from Irish settlers on my Mum's side. Oops, have I said too much?

Not at all. You have picked my very favourite Celts.

quote: Only Americans have done that so far. Although I almost fainted in shock when one of them actually guessed NZ once.

I’ve been called an Australian by several American cousins on my travels. Apparently if you don’t speak in a halting monotone like the ‘Upper class’ (and was there ever a less accurate description for a group of people?) you can’t be English.

Whilst in NSW an absolutely charming lady from NY with the proverbial child from hell mistook me for an Australian when I suggested said child might be best left in the Jenolan Caves when our party departed.

So as for your adopted country I was told the other week that over 90% of the adult population has never left it’s borders (indeed don’t have passports) – would you agree with that? I think we may have found a place Finbar would like to reside even less than Oz? Well maybe there and Leicestershire anyway.

Even the least cosmopolitan of Adult Brits has generally been somewhere else. That frequently means a booze cruise to France or Spanish package holiday but hell it’s travel.

quote: that must mean you think NZ are at an all-time low

That hook is back? This is not what I meant at all, but rather that Ireland are at an all time high.

quote: Can you pass on your opinion to the English rugby team? I want to build up false hope

A serious opinion, with no banter? Well okay then. This is the best England side we have ever had. They are capable of competing with any side in the world. Do I think they are capable of winning the RWC – no not really, the venue is beyond them right now. Do I hope they do so – absolutely. But I have more modest goals for continued growth – I want them to beat Aus in Aus, NZ in NZ and put 150 points on Wales. All three are more realistic possibilities than they have ever been.

As long as I think we are moving forward I’ll be happy. It’s worth pointing out that Union here is a poor second string to the national obsession that is soccer (excuse me whilst I retch) so the team needs to keep moving forward to keep the sport here healthy.

Was that serious enough for you?

quote: I did notice, though, that the red of the rose isn't as red as the red in your english flag. Perhaps you could get that fixed in photoshop.

I’ll get right on it. Only joking.

quote: I'd've thought a pain killer was, by definition, performance enhancing. OTOH, I suppose the ingredients of these pain killers aren't on the banned list.

I’d always thought the same, so you must be right about the list. With the back room ensemble the team now has (everyone and Bob’s uncle too) it’s unlikely a mistake like that would be made.

Have you noticed by the way that Laporte has sent a video to Honiss of three penalties he claims were wrong (Wilko kicked all three naturally) demanding an explanation .

That take things up a level don’t you think, Woody got criticised after the NZ test for simply asking the IRB (the governing body, as all national coaches are entitled to) for clarification on a point of law concerning blocking runners. Laporte has directly mailed a ref saying “you got it wrong, you cost us the game” and it is not getting anywhere near the same kind of attention. Dare I suggest it’s because he isn’t English and it’s not so fashionable to criticise the French for such a ridiculous action? Yes Finbar it’s that need for national therapy again.

Woody gets upset straight after games and can say silly things but Laporte compiled and sent this after several days had passed. Surely his mind should hav ebeen on Scotland? He seems to have these occasional brain fades? I hope the IRB discipline him, Honiss may be poor but refs have to be protected from angry coaches and they sure as hell are not directly accountable to them - otherwise the world be be playing ‘Eddie Jones Union’ by now.

	21-02-2003 15:38									#250
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Blues 31 -d- Waratahs 18

Wet, slippery conditions but no excuse for the Waratahs' handling errors that had them playing - apart from the last 7 minutes - like a schoolboy Under 7 C team. The possession percentages weren't far apart, but the Waratahs simply gave the ball away too often in the most inept, amateurish fashion. The Blues' defence was outstanding. The two Fijian wingers make Doug Howlett look like a draught horse and are incredibly dangerous given an inch of space. But one of them could end up in trouble for a very ugly and unnecessary swinging arm aimed at Matt Rogers' head in a tackle.

	21-02-2003 15:46									#251
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quote: Originally posted by Frozzy All I can say is bring on the Blues

Watch out for their Fijian wingers. They're terrifyingly fast. One of them also has a mean swinging right arm in tackles.

	21-02-2003 16:48									#252
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A little early for mind games?

What say you Finbar?

	21-02-2003 16:59									#253
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I hope the IRB discipline him, Honiss may be poor but refs have to be protected from angry coaches and they sure as hell are not directly accountable to them - otherwise the world be be playing ‘Eddie Jones Union’ by now.

Mr Honiss is not a poor referee but an awfully terrible one. When a referee produces a game like Mr Honiss last saturday they should not be allowed by the IRB to helm a game again. Some French referees were sanctionned for minor mistakes in the past when Mr Honniss blunders are tolerated.

	21-02-2003 17:34									#254
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That was by no means his worst game ever - and he was by no means only making strange decisions one way.

And I won't support a post game witch hunt of any referee by a specific Union. Particularly when the ref is being bullied directly. Surely you can see it's inappropriate for Laporte to contact him directly?

The problem is this is starting to make it look like Laporte is a very poor loser.

	21-02-2003 17:48									#255
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quote: Originally posted by Havak A little early for mind games? What say you Finbar?

Eddie Jones said much the same thing. Why shouldn't they? The stats are on the board. Sure, England have to prove themselves away from home, but it's hard to argue with any of it. Frankly, as I've said a number of times, I'd have the All Blacks on top. As I've also said, I have absolutely no idea how the Wallabies will go. I don't think any sensible person would have an idea. There are going to be so many new faces in a team that will have been rebuilt since the NH tour. The NH tour was meant to have been the rebuilding exercise but the injuries killed it off.

	21-02-2003 18:02									#256
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Well I can hardly agree with you on that AB call now can I?

Caligastia would not expect me to. An inactive side that last drew with a team ranked two places lower and before that lost to the team ranked immediately below them? No bean counter worth their salt could make them favourites.

Plus I suspect when there senior team does turn out in the tri-nations and they perform far less well than they did at Twickers (and lets face it they haven't looked the part in their Aussie away fixture for many seasons now so it's more than possible) you may revise that opinion anyway?

Heh Caligastia - is my hook visible above the waterline?

Tomorrow is a poignant and very personal day for me. England v Wales in Cardiff used to be a fixture every Englishman dreaded. I'm still adjusting to going into them expecting us to win and win well. But I will still get the hairs stood up on the back of my neck when 'bread of heaven' gets in full flow.

	21-02-2003 18:26									#257
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Well I can hardly agree with you on that AB call now can I? Caligastia would not expect me to. An inactive side that last drew with a team ranked two places lower and before that lost to the team ranked immediately below them? No bean counter worth their salt could make them favourites.

Care to put some Civ gold where your ladle is?

quote: Tomorrow is a poignant and very personal day for me. England v Wales in Cardiff used to be a fixture every Englishman dreaded. I'm still adjusting to going into them expecting us to win and win well. But I will still get the hairs stood up on the back of my neck when 'bread of heaven' gets in full flow.

Someone call a therapist. Quick!

	21-02-2003 18:40									#258
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Have I got any Civ gold left? I still can't believe I accepted that silly margin for the England-AB game and margin betting emptied my coffers over time.

Oh I don't need therapy. I accept we are able to beat them. I expect a tough 15 mins early doors then a rapid assertion of English control.

I was lucky enough to witness 'bread of heaven' sung in the old national stadium in Cardiff, albeit at a club match, and it is something every rugby fan should experience once in life. The Millenium stadium accoustics are okay as well and the Munster fans singing "Molly Malone" is worth listening to.

You SH guys really don't know what you are missing in terms of rugger related singing. Fields of Athenry, The Wild Rover, Jerusalem. Ah happy thoughts.

Keep it under you hat okay but I sang BoH myself several times whilst down under. And Flower of Scotland. And Ireland's call.

This one though I don't sing, my accent is wrong.

Arise children of the fatherland
The day of glory has arrived
Against us tyranny's
Bloody standard is raised
Listen to the sound in the fields
The howling of these fearsome soldiers
They are coming into our midst
To cut the throats of your sons and consorts
To arms citizens, form you battalions
March, march, let impure blood water our furrows

It's a bit violent is it not?

	21-02-2003 20:10									#259
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quote: Originally posted by Havak I’ve been called an Australian by several American cousins on my travels. Apparently if you don’t speak in a halting monotone like the ‘Upper class’ (and was there ever a less accurate description for a group of people?) you can’t be English.

I love the variety of English accents. Ever see that bit in "Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barrels"?

Southerner - "****ing norvin monkeys"

Northerner - "ah aate these soothern faiirys"

quote: Whilst in NSW an absolutely charming lady from NY with the proverbial child from hell mistook me for an Australian when I suggested said child might be best left in the Jenolan Caves when our party departed.

I love the NY accent. They don't roll their Rs like the rest of the country.

quote: So as for your adopted country I was told the other week that over 90% of the adult population has never left it’s borders (indeed don’t have passports) – would you agree with that?

That's probably true, but you have to keep in mind that Americans don't need passports to go to Canada or Mexico.

quote: I think we may have found a place Finbar would like to reside even less than Oz? Well maybe there and Leicestershire anyway.

For some reason I think Finbar would enjoy NYC. Or were you referring to the USA?

quote: That hook is back? This is not what I meant at all, but rather that Ireland are at an all time high.

But not high enough to beat you guys of course

quote: A serious opinion, with no banter?

I thought that was the banter..

quote: Well okay then. This is the best England side we have ever had. They are capable of competing with any side in the world. Do I think they are capable of winning the RWC – no not really, the venue is beyond them right now. Do I hope they do so – absolutely. But I have more modest goals for continued growth – I want them to beat Aus in Aus, NZ in NZ and put 150 points on Wales. All three are more realistic possibilities than they have ever been.

True, but I think the one weakness of the English team is their dependence on Wilkinson. Is there anyone waiting in the wings with the potential to replace him if he is injured?

quote: As long as I think we are moving forward I’ll be happy. It’s worth pointing out that Union here is a poor second string to the national obsession that is soccer (excuse me whilst I retch) so the team needs to keep moving forward to keep the sport here healthy.

Yes, I do think it's good for rugby in general for England to have a bit of success. Only till the world cup though...

	21-02-2003 20:12									#260
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Oh f*ck! Sport.

Lately every warm blooded SA male cowers at the mere mention of any sporting code. Right now, it seems like only our national tiddlywinks team shows some promise of possibly beating their rivals - the blind, paralyzed, lesbian midgets of Frikfrakistan.

Tonight, SA will get back onto the Super 12 merry-go-round with two local derbies. I’ll be at Newlands watching the Stormers vs. Sharks game (not that I support either side), hopefully an SA side will win that match.

Full report on Monday.

	21-02-2003 20:24									#261
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quote: Originally posted by finbar Blues 31 -d- Waratahs 18 Wet, slippery conditions but no excuse for the Waratahs' handling errors that had them playing - apart from the last 7 minutes - like a schoolboy Under 7 C team. The possession percentages weren't far apart, but the Waratahs simply gave the ball away too often in the most inept, amateurish fashion. The Blues' defence was outstanding. The two Fijian wingers make Doug Howlett look like a draught horse and are incredibly dangerous given an inch of space. But one of them could end up in trouble for a very ugly and unnecessary swinging arm aimed at Matt Rogers' head in a tackle.

I would have loved to see that game, but FSW only shows two super12 games a week so I'll have to be content with Crusaders v Hurricanes and Reds v Brumbies. Sounds like the Blues did famously though. They shouldn't have any problems rolling over the Chiefs next week, and the week after they will be in for a true test when they face the Crusaders.

	21-02-2003 20:26									#262
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quote: Originally posted by Devil of Truth Tonight, SA will get back onto the Super 12 merry-go-round with two local derbies. I’ll be at Newlands watching the Stormers vs. Sharks game (not that I support either side), hopefully an SA side will win that match.

If SA can get one of it's super 12 sides into the final four, then all will not be lost.

	21-02-2003 20:45									#263
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Well I can hardly agree with you on that AB call now can I? Caligastia would not expect me to. An inactive side that last drew with a team ranked two places lower and before that lost to the team ranked immediately below them? No bean counter worth their salt could make them favourites.

It will be England that will have been inactive when the world cup rolls around, whereas the All Blacks will have had the Tri-nations as a good warm-up.

quote: Plus I suspect when there senior team does turn out in the tri-nations and they perform far less well than they did at Twickers

Of course, these things are inevitable, and as predictable as the tides.

quote: (and lets face it they haven't looked the part in their Aussie away fixture for many seasons now so it's more than possible) you may revise that opinion anyway? Heh Caligastia - is my hook visible above the waterline?

I saw that one a mile off, but I still have to respond.

I predict that NZ will win the Bledisloe Cup and the Tri-nations this year, which will be a perfect lead-up to their World Cup victory over England. oh yeah

	21-02-2003 21:22									#264
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quote: Originally posted by Havak That was by no means his worst game ever - and he was by no means only making strange decisions one way. And I won't support a post game witch hunt of any referee by a specific Union. Particularly when the ref is being bullied directly. Surely you can see it's inappropriate for Laporte to contact him directly? The problem is this is starting to make it look like Laporte is a very poor loser.

I am not stating Mr Honiss' decisions have favored england as I won't say France has lost the game because of him. England played better than France and thus deserved to win.

But I am really concerned by the fact that the players can never know what are the laws that will be enforced on the field, and most of all, how they will be enforced. This is simply not acceptable any more, in the era of professionalism the referee question still lies on the border of amateurism. If the IRB would like to wipe the game of Rugby out of the records of history this organization would not do otherwise.

	22-02-2003 00:36									#265
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quote: It will be England that will have been inactive when the world cup rolls around, whereas the All Blacks will have had the Tri-nations as a good warm-up.

The tri nations are early this year - and England have warm up games just before the RWC.

quote: I saw that one a mile off, but I still have to respond

quote: I predict that NZ will win the Bledisloe Cup and the Tri-nations this year, which will be a perfect lead-up to their World Cup victory over England. oh yeah

This one I may file away. Could be a useful sig come the autumn?

Tamerlin - I can see your point. Please realise it was Mr Laporte I was suggesting may be seen as a poor loser and certainly not yourself!!!

	22-02-2003 01:11									#266
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quote: Originally posted by Havak The tri nations are early this year - and England have warm up games just before the RWC.

Ah, so England will be all worn out, while NZ will be rested and ready to go!

quote: This one I may file away. Could be a useful sig come the autumn?

Do you promise to wear it after England's RWC defeat at the hands of the All Blacks?

	22-02-2003 05:01									#267
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quote: Originally posted by Havak Have I got any Civ gold left? I still can't believe I accepted that silly margin for the England-AB game and margin betting emptied my coffers over time.

You certainly do have enough Civ gold left. Here's our current bank balance:

Andydog 186
Caligastia 37
finbar 123.5
Havak 60
LDiCesares 111
Mickeyj 143.5
NeoStar 114
ravagon 94
redbull 80
Tamerlin 59

So enough of this pussyfooting around and put some Civ gold where your ladle is! I'm willing to bet you - here and now - 50 Civ gold that the ABs will win the WRC. What about it?

quote: Oh I don't need therapy. I accept we are able to beat them. I expect a tough 15 mins early doors then a rapid assertion of English control.

No, the therapy is for this curious lack of self esteem that has you, on the one hand, cheerfully celebrating England's superiority and rueing that the rest of the world doesn't acknowlege it, while, on the other hand, raising the notion of mind games when someone else does actually acknowledge England's superiority. While, on the other other hand, you're totally writing off the team's chances in the WRC before a ball is passed or kicked. Curious, yes?

	22-02-2003 05:08									#268
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quote: Originally posted by Caligastia I would have loved to see that game, but FSW only shows two super12 games a week so I'll have to be content with Crusaders v Hurricanes and Reds v Brumbies. Sounds like the Blues did famously though. They shouldn't have any problems rolling over the Chiefs next week, and the week after they will be in for a true test when they face the Crusaders.

The Blues were terrific. They lost Carlos Spencer before the match with a knee injury but his replacement - Ai'i - was outstanding. They made many fewer mistakes in the conditions, their defence was powerful, and the counter-attacking was terrific. They were a lot more confident and aggressive than some of the Blues teams of recent years. It obviously helped that the Waratahs only played about 8 minutes of fluent rugby for the match and the scoreline ultimately flattered the Waratahs with two tries in the last 8 minutes when they actually looked like a decent team.

	22-02-2003 05:26									#269
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My Super 12 picks:

Winners: Blues. They look outstanding.
Runners Up: Hmm... I'd have to say Highlanders
Losing Semi-Finalists: Waratahs and Brumbies

The Crusaders will fall flat on their faces this year, IMO. The Blues SMOKED the Waratahs... but I think I'll be changing my bets come April

	22-02-2003 05:31									#270
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quote: Originally posted by Havak This one though I don't sing, my accent is wrong. Arise children of the fatherland The day of glory has arrived Against us tyranny's Bloody standard is raised Listen to the sound in the fields The howling of these fearsome soldiers They are coming into our midst To cut the throats of your sons and consorts To arms citizens, form you battalions March, march, let impure blood water our furrows It's a bit violent is it not?

Naaaah! Only a little war song sang by the troops coming from Marseille during the revolution. Only fearsome when it was sang in the Parc des Princes.