23-02-2003 14:19									#31
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OK, we are finally getting to more exciting times. Plans for Turn 59 (1550BC):

1. Angus NE, perhaps razing the camp a turn later
2. Conan NW, then NW and then to bodyguard Rover
3. Gaul N, then to Farmerville area
4. MercG S, then S again, then skip turn (to heal)
5. Marky Merc SW, then W, S, S, disposing of the barb camp along the way
6. Leopold to irrigate, then road (part of O2E)
7. Robbie N-NW-NW to the jungle (part of O2E)
8. Rover to road
9. Legopolis to start building a settler
10. Galley to sail W-NW-N (let's get rid of those shrouded tiles in Legoon first

Note: the galley route I have in mind would be like this:

turn 59: W-NW-N
turn 60: NW-W-N
turn 61: NE-NE-N
turn 62: E-NE-NE

	23-02-2003 20:07									#32
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quote: OK, we are finally getting to more exciting times.

Yes, about time too

Plans for Turn 59 (1550BC):

1. Angus NE, perhaps razing the camp a turn later
Agreed

2. Conan NW, then NW and then to bodyguard Rover
Agreed

3. Gaul N, then to Farmerville area
Yes about north, think we might want to keep him near the plains cow to prevent barbs from settling in that area as it should be one of the first southern city sites

4. MercG S, then S again, then skip turn (to heal)
Agreed - though I am almost certain that we have confirmed what RP said - Tiberius has seen a coastal square (and so did I)

5. Marky Merc SW, then W, S, S, disposing of the barb camp along the way
Why not south - might be able to see the camp and perhaps the barb will be so kind to hopelessly attack us

6. Leopold to irrigate, then road (part of O2E)
Uh are you sure that we will get the extra food in despotism? It will already be +2+2=4 food I think. If so ok, but if not road first.

7. Robbie N-NW-NW to the jungle (part of O2E)
Agreed

8. Rover to road
Agreed

9. Legopolis to start building a settler
Agreed

10. Galley to sail W-NW-N (let's get rid of those shrouded tiles in Legoon first
No, with the confirmation of the coastal square near where RP said, we need to get there ASAP. We can discuss the pros and cons of whether to contact anyone later, but we need to be there soon.

If we head N-E-E or N-E-NE, we can be at the RP coastline in 11 turns. (We can't make it in 10 as we would end up at the sea spot between us at the end of that turn). Your suggestion would take us 15-16 turns. We can always use Angus to uncover those dark spots on his way back.

	23-02-2003 20:17									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 6. Leopold to irrigate, then road (part of O2E) Uh are you sure that we will get the extra food in despotism? It will already be +2+2=4 food I think. If so ok, but if not road first.

I am sure (tested it).

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 10. Galley to sail W-NW-N (let's get rid of those shrouded tiles in Legoon first No, with the confirmation of the coastal square near where RP said, we need to get there ASAP. We can discuss the pros and cons of whether to contact anyone later, but we need to be there soon.

Why? What use will be our galley there? I am strongly convinced we shall make NO contacts until completing the Great Library. We have no need to make any contacts now. No other civ has Map Making (as far as we know), so we are safe. I do not see why we should rush to that place? In fact, I would like to circumnavigate our landmass in the counterclockwise direction! I do NOT want to meet anyone for the next 30-35 turns...

	24-02-2003 08:11									#34
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Suggestions for Turn 60 (1525 bc):

1) Angus N to attack barb camp
2) Marky Merc either SW to attack barb or S to hill
3) Conan NW to cover Rover worker
4) Jimbo worker NW NW (probably to mine) EDIT by vondrack: NO! - see below, Jimbo must go to mine a desert tile; I have done an extensive sim on this and it makes the settler production optimal and fastest, wasting not a single shield to an "overshoot")
5) MercG S
6) Galley N-NW-NW
7) Robbie to start clearing jungle
8) This might be contraversial : Gaul E - he should take up residence near the X spot to be our eyes in that area while we move MercG back to Farmerville after he has recovered from his injury (we can afford to leave Gaul idle but can't afford to keep MercG idle and we do need to keep an eye on that strait)

Last edited by vondrack on 24-02-2003 at 23:12

	24-02-2003 10:36									#35
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quote: 1) Angus N to attack barb camp

quote: 2) Marky Merc either SW to attack barb or S to hill

I would go all out and just take out the barb.

quote: 3) Conan NW to cover Rover worker

Agreed.

quote: 6) Galley N-NW-NW

I have a new suggestion. Check out my thoughts in the "galley movement" poll.

7) Robbie to start clearing jungle

quote: 8) This might be contraversial : Gaul E - he should take up residence near the X spot to be our eyes in that area while we move MercG back to Farmerville after he has recovered from his injury (we can afford to leave Gaul idle but can't afford to keep MercG idle and we do need to keep an eye on that strait)

I don't think that's a bad idea at all. Like you say, I'd rather leave a warrior sitting around than an expensive Merc (we don't pay them for nothing, you know...)

	24-02-2003 14:37									#36
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I would also agree with a permenant station in the SE. As some of you know I am advocating sending our next couple of settlers to begin colonising the excellent land there and it would be nice to have a warrior there already.

	24-02-2003 18:33									#37
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Plans for Turn 60 (1525BC):

1. Angus N, razing the camp
2. Conan NW, then to stay with Rover
3. Gaul E, E, E, then to fortify
4. MercG to skip turn (to heal), then to the Farmerville area
5. Marky Merc W, then S, S, disposing of the barb camp along the way
Note: I moved MM to SW in the previous turn... thus, the barbarian is out of range now - I would follow the shoreline, as that is why we sent MM there...
6. Robbie to start clearing the jungle (part of O2E)
7. Galley to sail N-N-N (I've realized the galley has a sight range of 2, so it is not necessary to go NW)

EDIT - IMPORTANT!:
8. Jimbo (currently NE of Farmerville) SW to Farmerville, then SW again to the desert and mine (needed for the smooth operation of the settler farm, minimizing the number of wasted shields)

Last edited by vondrack on 24-02-2003 at 23:07

	24-02-2003 19:51									#38
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Gaul E, E, E the sentry

Otherwise all is OK.

PS Why does Legopolis grow now a bit slower? Did you change a tile they are eating from?

	24-02-2003 20:57									#39
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Gaul E, E, E the sentry

Ahhh... will have to learn how to use this mode... never used it before.

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius PS Why does Legopolis grow now a bit slower? Did you change a tile they are eating from?

Yes, I switched from working the mined grassland (2F 1S 1G) to working that roaded riverbank hill (1F 1S 2G). It does not effect the number of turns to the next Legopolis pop growth nor the time to complete the settler, while adding 1 more gold to our income.

	25-02-2003 04:47									#40
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Running turn commentary for 1525 BC:

-Renamed the unamed merc "MightyMerc" As I could find no plans for what we were doing with him, sentried him on the Poor Twin to cover any approaching barbs from the SE jungle.
-Jimbo SW
-Conan NW to meet Rover
-Marky Merc W
-Named Robbie "Robbie the Worker," began jungle clearing.
-Galley N-N-N
-Angus N - *phew!* a close one, with Angus left standing victorious with a single HP left! Oh, and 25 extra gold in his pocket, of course.
-Gaul E
-MercG rested...

Post turn activity: The barb by MarkyMerc moved N onto the mountain.

Turn complete! Files sent to GS and Vondrack.

	25-02-2003 07:33									#41
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Suggestions for 1500bc turn:

1) Angus either rest and S (or S and rest)
2) Galley NE-NE-NE
3) Conan and Rover W (assuming that is where we are putting Forkmouth so better road it to save a turn perhaps)
4) Jimbo SW to desert
5) Marky Merc either S or SE (to approach barb camp)
6) Leopold to start roading
7) Gaul E
8) MercG S (we haven't gone on that hill before and I would recommend going onto that mountain again before heading back to Farmerville - see if there are any barbs or barb camps around)

If I forgot anything or made mistakes - yell at me later
(that includes any edits from you Vondrack )

By the way, you might want to check the lux/tax/research sliders - when I checked the 1525 save it showed 4 turns both for 100% and 90% science - could someone check on this (No big deal if we missed this last turn)

	25-02-2003 17:21									#42
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Our plans for 1500BC (thanks, Steve! I will reuse most of your text ):

1) Angus rest, then S, E, S
2) Galley NE-NE-NE
3) Conan to mine, Rover to guard him (sentry)
4) Jimbo SW to the desert, then mine
5) Marky Merc S (to add to our map + approach the camp)
6) Leopold to start roading
7) Gaul E
8) MercG W

ad 3) Forkmouth is supposed to be founded on that hill W of where Rover&Conan currently are, so it would be useless to road it. However, we better road and mine the bonus grasslands along the river, and road the game forest before moving Rover somewhere else. With two fully improved bonus grasslands and the game forest, Forkmouth should be able to build one or two settlers relatively fast. We may also consider irrigating the floodplains further up the river - would be a 3-food tile for Forkmouth to use.

ad 8) Gaul is heading there anyway, supposed to stay in the area, so I guess it will be better to send MercG to the Farmerville area ASAP, rather then wasting two more turns on something Gaul will do in three turns anyway.

As for the research slider... it is still too early, I think. I would take care of it on the last turn of our research. On the next turn, we will be missing 69 beakers and producing 27 bpt (thanks to the growth of Legopolis). That is 27+27+15=69. Fortunately, 15 is one of the settings that we can set the research slider to, so I would do it this way.

	26-02-2003 04:25									#43
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Our plans for 1475BC:

1) Angus S, then E, S
EDIT:
1) Angus to fully heal, then S, E, S
2) Galley E-SE-S
3) Jason to move NE, then mine & road
4) Marky Merc S, then to attack the camp
5) Jimbo to mine
6) Gaul E
7) MercG SW, attacking the camp

ad 2) after closely examining the picture ZargonX posted recently and having a look at the save from the turn Howards was at the northernmost tip of Legos Major, I, too, suspect there may be an island NE of the Northern Mountains. Thinking this over and counting the turns needed to check this spot and circumnavigate our continent in the counterclockwise direction only then, I believe we do have few turns to find out if there is something or not.

The planned galley route would be:

turn 62: E-SE-S
turn 63: NE-E-SE
turn 64: E-SE-W
turn 65: NW-W-W
turn 66: N-N-W

Subject to any unexpected findings, of course.

ad 4) I would rather have Marky Merc to finish what he was sent to the coast for and only then take upon the camp. Saves us one turn...

Last edited by vondrack on 26-02-2003 at 19:55

	26-02-2003 04:27									#44
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Outline moves for 1475:

1)MarkyMerc S, take out the camp.
2)Angus rests
3)Jimbo mine
4)MercG SE to attack camp
5)Galley SE-SE-SE (to begin heading to investigate mystery isle)
6)Gaul E

	26-02-2003 04:32									#45
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quote: Originally posted by ZargonX Outline moves for 1475: 1)MarkyMerc S, take out the camp. 2)Angus rests 3)Jimbo mine 4)MercG SE to attack camp 5)Galley SE-SE-SE (to begin heading to investigate mystery isle) 6)Gaul E

I think Angus can move on... with 2hps, it is not that much of a risk. We will rest him before attacking anything, that's right, but he can continue exploring, I think.

It is better to have the Galley do small detours into the sea, as we will be able to uncover a little bit more of the the surrounding waters...

	26-02-2003 04:33									#46
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Plans for 1475BC

1. Check the science slider ! We should be able to get IW in 2 turns even researching on 90 or even 80%
2. I'd let Angus to rest one more turn (I suppose he's not fully healed)
3. Galleyleo: NE-NE-NW (to see more sea) or NE-N-NW
4. Jimbo to mine (the desert south from Farmerville)
5. MarkyMerc to attack the camp (or S now and attack the camp next turn)
6. MercG to attack the camp
7. Gaul: NE
8. Jason NE then road and mine (for Jackson) or S-SE to road the dye (it is now within our borders)

Edit: If we want to check Zargon's spot, then E-SE-S for Galleyleo; (even though I can't see anything there, even after zooming in closely in Photoshop).

I'm so happy that we have a galley! It is so exciting. We have finally something to do!

Last edited by Tiberius on 26-02-2003 at 04:47

	26-02-2003 04:36									#47
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Damn, when I started writing my post, there were no plans for 1475 and when I came back online, there: 2 plans already! Bah!

	26-02-2003 05:36									#48
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quote: Edit: If we want to check Zargon's spot, then E-SE-S for Galleyleo; (even though I can't see anything there, even after zooming in closely in Photoshop).

It's really there, I swear! Are you using sn00py's graphics mod? It's the only one I can spot it in because of the coastal ridge.

	26-02-2003 05:37									#49
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My 2 cents for 1475bc turn:

1) Angus either rest again or S - either doesn't bother me
2) Galleyleo E - SE - S to uncover more water area
3) Jimbo to mine
4) Marky Merc either S or SE to take out the camp
5) MercG to attack the camp
6) Gaul E but only after MercG has moved or destroyed the camp
7) Mighty Merc NE (suggest moving him toward the mystery isle as well so that Galleyleo can easily pick him up to explore the land mass if necessary)
8) Jason go to the dye - I think we should have the time to road the dye and still mine/road the hill before we get to size 6 (which would happen 14? turns from now)
9) I would also check the slider each turn

Oh btw, Vondrack - I dare you to show me how Conan is mining (from your 1500bc suggestion post)

	26-02-2003 05:58									#50
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quote: quote: Edit: If we want to check Zargon's spot, then E-SE-S for Galleyleo; (even though I can't see anything there, even after zooming in closely in Photoshop). It's really there, I swear! Are you using sn00py's graphics mod? It's the only one I can spot it in because of the coastal ridge.

I just checked the 3250bc Chronicle picture - it is quite visible there - guess we just missed it then and admittedly we only had that spot out of the fog for that single turn.

So assuming that might be the GoW "Island" - we should drop off a unit on it but by no means send a ship around the island as we could end up contacting GoW by mistake.

However, if we do that we will need to pick the unit up. Since the plan is to move Galleyleo to the west after investigating the spot, perhaps we should delay the Panama wonder and build a 2nd galley. Admittedly that would delay the wonder there by about 10 turns, but we might need the 2nd galley anyway (and we don't want to risk leaving the unit isolated on the island - we might need it and we don't want to risk the chance of it being contacted by another civ).

Alternatively we can delay the western route of Galleyleo for a few turns and perhaps look around the east coast for a bit while the unit explores the mystery isle and instead build a galley as our 1st build in Forkmouth.

	26-02-2003 14:03									#51
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If it is an island, how about we put a settler there....

	26-02-2003 14:34									#52
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quote: Originally posted by redstar1 If it is an island, how about we put a settler there....

I would rather not do that... even if the island is strategically important, we would be unable to defend it properly - because of all the REXing and wonders under construction, we are and for some time will remain thin on military (and naval)... which is okay for the mainland, where we can move units to where they are needed most, but an island outpost would be just begging for troubles due to difficult supply/reinforcement lines.

If there is an island, I believe we should be happy to leave it unsettled for now, focusing on our mainland... just keeping in mind we will once get visitors from that direction... perhaps letting Luxes expand over there, creating a buffer between us and GoW/ND - this way, Luxes will at least have something to do, which will make them think less of our land and more of this island (especially because it would be a staging place for their future invasion back onto Bob).

	26-02-2003 15:28									#53
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Well I'm only making a suggestion to inspire debate If it is an island perhaps we may want to mention that to Lux...

	26-02-2003 15:28									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Sharpe My 2 cents for 1475bc turn: 1) Angus either rest again or S - either doesn't bother me

As mentioned before, I would rather continue exploring, resting only before any attacks.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 7) Mighty Merc NE (suggest moving him toward the mystery isle as well so that Galleyleo can easily pick him up to explore the land mass if necessary)

Well, I am really less than sure about moving one of our Mercs onto that island. Keep in mind that we will need two more military units for Jackson and Panama (as MP), plus we need escorts (and later garrisons) for our settlers... I really think we should leave that island for later... I do not think we would miss on learning about its geography, since it is likely to be pretty small, allowing a galley to learn a lot about it from the sea... so even if GoW manage to settle it before us (which I doubt), we would still not be denied geographical knowledge completely...

We are already quite stretched on Legos Major, stretching even more to the Mystery Isle sounds like a risk too big and quite unnecessary for me.

Also, keep in mind that Jackson shall be done with GLib in 31 turns, which is not that distant future now - once done, Jackson will be able to spit a galley every three turns. 10 turns and we will have the mightiest navy in place there... just about in time to follow the Mystery Isle coastline, perhaps maybe even dropping a settler (built in Jackson) escorted by a Merc there. That I would consider the safe way of handling the Mystery Isle...

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 8) Jason go to the dye - I think we should have the time to road the dye and still mine/road the hill before we get to size 6 (which would happen 14? turns from now)

Ah, sorry, guys, I know you must be getting tired of this... but Jason is needed elsewhere - he must finish mining and roading that last hill SW of Jackson first and then immediately go to the Panama area (all part of O2E). We need him to move to Panama ASAP, to help boost the city production in order to pursue The Pyramids. Once he is done there, he will be able to go back and connect the dyes... however, if we get lucky and one of the Panama hills has iron, we might be able to connect the dyes before moving Jason to the Panama area without delaying the wonder completion - I will update my plans immediately after discovering iron (three turns from now) and then post them here.

Do not worry about happiness too much - Legopolis is going to hit pop 5 always only for a very short while before completing the Merc+Settler combo... so at that moment, the escort Merc will be there plus we have Merciless there now as well. So Legopolis is okay. Panama will grow to pop 6 on Turn 77 (pop 7 soonafter), which will be after we finish researching Literature - we will be able to use the luxury slider to keep the pop happy then. And Jackson shall never get to pop 7, so sending Merciless there shall take care of the problem for the foreseeable future.

Just BTW, my estimate is that we will get Literature on turn 77 at latest (most probably as early as on Turn 75), which is well ahead of the Turn 93 deadline... so we can (and shall) use the luxury slider to keep our pop happy until Jason or a Red Brick worker can get to that Dye and connect it (according to my tables, the dye shall be connected no later than on Turn 92). We have money more than enough thanks to barb camps, so spending some gold on hapiness will certainly not ruin us...

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe 9) I would also check the slider each turn

I have already been investigating this - it will be best to take care of the savings on the very last turn of IW research, since we should be able to set the slider so that we do not lose a single gold.

quote: Originally posted by Sharpe Oh btw, Vondrack - I dare you to show me how Conan is mining (from your 1500bc suggestion post)

That was a nice one, wasn't it?

	26-02-2003 17:26									#55
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quote: Originally posted by vondrack As mentioned before, I would rather continue exploring, resting only before any attacks.

And I would rather let him heal. What's the rush with the exploration? In a few turns it will we done, anyway.

quote: Well, I am really less than sure about moving one of our Mercs onto that island. Keep in mind that we will need two more military units for Jackson and Panama (as MP), plus we need escorts (and later garrisons) for our settlers... I really think we should leave that island for later... I do not think we would miss on learning about its geography, since it is likely to be pretty small, allowing a galley to learn a lot about it from the sea... so even if GoW manage to settle it before us (which I doubt), we would still not be denied geographical knowledge completely... We are already quite stretched on Legos Major, stretching even more to the Mystery Isle sounds like a risk too big and quite unnecessary for me.

If there's an island there, we should settle it. Radek is right, not now, but even if we are not done with our own continent, I'd still consider settling it (maybe with a Jackson settler). Actually I'd consider it quite a priority. It is nice to have a base for future operations close to the other continent. In the same time, we don't want to let others to settle close to ours. Defence is not a problem, as no one would attack us in the near future, I think.

quote: Ah, sorry, guys, I know you must be getting tired of this... but Jason is needed elsewhere -

Ah, Radek, you are getting tireing with your plan
Is that really so important to finish that wonder on turn X, not one turn later ?
But I agree, we can handle happiness problems with the luxury slider a few turns.
Besides, we could build a worker in Legopolis after the settler.

quote: I have already been investigating this - it will be best to take care of the savings on the very last turn of IW research, since we should be able to set the slider so that we do not lose a single gold.

What is the percentages you could use on the last turn? Because I think we already could move it down to 80%, so in the last turn it should be much lower. Or ... ?

	26-02-2003 18:37									#56
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Poor Angus, he's painfully bleading from his heroic victory against the savage barbarians. While our selfish leader cares only for seeing more land. I say let Angus rest.

Seriously, let him rest just in case he runs into unforseen trouble. Stay on the conservative side.

As far as the island, I would have to side with Radek on this one.
It would be a nice outpost in the future and defense is not a concern right now (all this is very true, Tiberius). BUT

I do not want to delay the wonder production for another galley. Landing someone there would be a waste of resources. Finally, I fear we would unintentionally meet another civ.

	26-02-2003 19:06									#57
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I didn't say I want the island (if indeed there's an island there) settled now. I've said that I'd settle it with a settler from Jackson, and that means after the GL. It is not a priority, but not something we should neglect, neither.

	26-02-2003 19:13									#58
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I agree with Tiberius, I don't think its a high priority but i think we should settle it. Or at the very least allow Lux to have a city there while letting us steal a small corner for a Naval base. Assuming there is room of course.....

	26-02-2003 19:22									#59
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Yes, good idea Redstar about splitting the island between us and the Luxes.

Anyway, let's wait to see if there's anything there.

	26-02-2003 19:50									#60
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quote: Anyway, let's wait to see if there's anything there.

Exactly. Debate about whether to settle it or not is moot until we know what's there. That is why I think we should explore it sooner rather than later, to have a full sense of what's around. The island could be a galley-link to the other continent, and if it is, I think we should know that as soon as possible. The western coast can wait a few turns, as far as I see it.