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vondrack
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Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2002
time: 06:26
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I have exchanged a quick note with Rhothaerill & Beta:
quote:
Hi, guys!
Just sent you the usual amount of gold (is it still enough to cover your deficit plus upgrade one unit every turn?), some workers, and Scientific Method. Mass Production coming your way in 4t.
Just a couple of things:
1. Unless we expressly tell you otherwise, you are free to sell any tech we gift (or have gifted) you. We are now completely out of the trading loop, with others basically embargoing us - GoW/GS because we've got nothing they'd lack and ND because they want GoW/GS to be as much of a threat to us as possible (and perhaps because they fear repercussions if they traded with us). ATM, GoW & ND lack Scientific Method - if you are able to sell it to either of them (or to RP) for anything even remotely reasonable (gold, luxuries, workers), then go for it - whatever you are able to make out of a deal, it's yours.
2. Unless you have already arranged deals for Espionage, we'd prefer if you kept the tech for yourself and us only.
3. How many workers you can still reasonably use? No problem keeping them coming, just wanna have some idea about the scope of it...
4. What is your current beaker output?
5. How much gold needed to finish upgrading your military? (I guess it will be around 1500g, but I admit I am not keeping track of the gold)
6. After finishing Mass Production, we will most probably plunge back into the lower tech-tree branch and do Atomic Theory and Electronics ASAP. We would like you to go for Flight after finishing Espionage - still at your maximum research rate.
Well, that's it. Let us know if you need anything.
Best regards,
Radek aka vondrack
Legoland |
Here is Rhothaerill's response:
quote:
Hi Vondrack.
The gold you're sending is still enough to cover our
expenses and one upgrade by about 2 gold.
1. We can work on seeing what we can get for scientific method, but communism wasn't wanted by either GoW or Roleplay...probably because they both just kept forgetting there was a deal on the table.
2. We haven't arranged any deals for it yet so we won't
3. In two turns we will be joining about 20 workers to our cities. We'll still need more after that though since most of our cities don't grow very fast on their own. We still have a 2-turn worker pump going too.
4. Current beaker output is 325 beakers at 100%. That will go up moderately significantly in 2 turns.
5. There is only one more catapult to upgrade which was my primary concern. After that are 9 pikeman and 2 rifleman, and then finally 4 Immortals. We'll take as much as you want to give for our upgrade efforts. 
6. We'll have espionage in 3 turns and then head for flight.
Thanks again for the recent and soon to come techs. We should have a few destroyers popping out soon so we'll have a decent navy on its way.
Rhoth |
325bpt sounds cool - that's Flight in 13t even if Vox was the first to discover it (which is not going to be the case - GoW must be doing it ATM, as they lack techs to do anything else, but still research - which we learned through our investigations). It will most likely be 12t or maybe even less.
Our investment is becoming to pay back.
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vondrack
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Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2002
time: 06:26
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I have arranged a little backup plan with Vox.
I admit I have not consulted it with anyone, but frankly, there was very little to consult, as this does not require us to do anything...
First, my email to Vox:
quote:
Just an idea here... I know it may be a bit premature, but I thought I'd mention it. You are our best (and only!) ally, but at the same time, our Achilles' heel - since we would have to (and would!) fully commit to your defense if you were attacked.
If I was GS or GoW, I would use a diversionary attack at Vox to suck at least some Legoland forces in to Voxtavia - and then cut railroads to make sure they will not be able to fight wherever the real landing happens.
I was thinking of how to prevent that - first, we can keep workers on the key tiles. But there are too many and it would only be a matter of bringing enough bombardment power to cut the RRs for that one crucial turn. The other idea I have had was to have a backup naval route... such a route would require us to have one city in Voxtavia, to be able to ferry troops back and forth without losing their movement points.
However, any city transfer destroys cultural improvements, so we'd better use some "inferior" city of yours. But there are none like that, right? So - what about keeping an odd settler in reserve? There is a spot between Phoenix and Lux Invicta (SE-SE of L.I.) you could build a temporary port in case of emergency. You'd build it on your turn, gift it to us and we'd then use it to get whatever would be needed either in or out of Voxtavia (our ferry fleet would anchor W-NW of Port Hammer).
What do you think? It's just brainstorming for the moment - naval bombardment is only getting into play and bombers are still few turns away. But I believe we should start thinking about a war. One is sure to come - GS knows their shield lead over us is very slim and our fast research rate must be worrying them... they are sitting on a huge pile of gold (like 7000+ gold, we found out by investigating Cyclone two turns ago) and we seriously consider the possibility of them doing something, ahem, unreasonable  in a relatively near future - before their tech lead wanes. |
And Rhothaerill's response:
quote:
Hi Vondrack,
Regarding the gold, since we will be joining 20+ workers in 2 turns that will free up that much gold from our expenses. We'll replace it soon enough with naval expenses I imagine, but for now we'll be fine with the 220 for our expenses and an upgrade.
I plan on keeping our worker pump operational for awhile too. We won't have nearly as much pollution as you do as only a couple of our cities will even be able to grow beyond size 12, but I eventually want to have a few for pollution duty as well as growing all our cities to their maximum potential much quicker than they otherwise could.
After flight is done we can discuss our options from there. If you need us to continue full bore research we can do that, but if you need your gold for research then we can scale back a bit too. Depending on what you need we might be able to do amphibious warfare for you while you do radio and jump both of us ahead to the next age where we'll get that nice free tech.
If you can't fund all of our upgrades that's fine. I wanted to have the catapults upgraded to artillery first and that's almost done. Then we'll upgrade the pikes for support. If the Immortals don't get upgraded I might just disband them in favor of newly built units. We'll see what happens. I've been setting New Voice up to be the primary veteran builder while the other cities build naval units and bombard units.
The settler idea is an excellent one. I will make plans to add one into the works right away. Always better to be prepared now in case they attack sooner rather than later. I'd definitely prefer a settler to transferring a city since we have libraries and universities in all of them, though the alternative of losing the ability to have you defend us is much worse. At the moment (before bombers) the only way they could cut any of the Vox rail tiles to prevent a strike is to get into that little sea between us, but it would be much easier to cut one or two tiles around Invoice.
Thanks again. As soon as the save is passed on to me I'll send it off to you.
Rhoth |
And some of you might have noticed a line in the savegame email, informing us the settler has just been started.
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vondrack
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Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2002
time: 06:26
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An interesting proposal from Rhothaerill (I asked them to stay at 100% science, checked whether they had the waters in the West covered and made a note on the GS military build-up):
quote:
Hi Radek,
We'll keep on going at 100% science.
As to GS, they cannot get by in the west without being seen. The north is another matter however so just this past turn I sent one of our newer units to cover the west to be able to send an old caravel up to cover the
northwest. In another few turns we'll be able to cover the northeast too to spot GoW attacks.
Hmm, just had an idea. Now that we're about to hit size 12 in many of our cities we need either a luxury, an entertainer, or the lux slider to maintain the happiness in our cities. I don't really want to get another of our stockpiled luxury options quite yet so I am using entertainers at the moment, but I wonder if I should ask GS for one of the luxuries they owe us. If they refuse then we'll know what's up. If they give it to us and attack later then they're reneging on a deal and will catch some nastiness in the main forum.
Our new settler will be finished soon as well so that emergency city we had talked about will be ready if needed.
Jared |
What do you think? Methinks it's an excellent idea... it should not look suspicious, since Vox do need the lux (just look at all their cities!  ) - if GS refuses to give them (or stalls), then we will know they are planning an attack at Vox (as GS would never survive the infamy of having broken an in-game deal). If they give the lux, we will have a reasonable certainty that Vox is not going to be the (primary) target.
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vondrack
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Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2002
time: 06:26
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This is what I emailed to Rhothaerill yesterday before going to bed:
quote:
Hi Jared,
quote:
We'll keep on going at 100% science. |
Good, thanks.
Just this one tech and we'll be happy to let you slow down... but The Flight is of a principal importance to us. It's the hammer we need to properly welcome any invaders.
quote:
Hmm, just had an idea. Now that we're about to hit size 12 in many of our cities we need either a luxury, an entertainer, or the lux slider to maintain the happiness in our cities. I don't really want to get another of our stockpiled luxury options quite yet so I am using entertainers at the moment, but I wonder if I should ask GS for one of the luxuries they owe us. If they refuse then we'll know what's up. If they give it to us and attack later then they're reneging on a deal and will catch some nastiness in the main forum. |
This is actually an excellent idea. 20 turns is a loooong time (we'll be entering modern times in ~20t) - not sure if it is wise to keep saving the lux option(s) "for later times". IMHO, the game will be decided in ~40-60 turns maximum.
I am going to post your email in our forum and ask other guys what they think, but as for me, I believe it's just plain brilliant.
BTW - how many such options do you have stockpiled?
quote:
Our new settler will be finished soon as well so that emergency city we had talked about will be ready if needed. |
Great. Our caravels-to-be-upgraded-to-transports are already on their way to The Legoon. Everything should be in place within ~5 turns (well, at least the first 3-4 transports... but that's 24-32 units to be transported in case of an emergency).
Take care,
Radek |
And found this in my mailbox this morning:
quote:
Hi Radek,
That sounds good. I will wait to contact GS about the luxury item until after our next turn. It would look a little suspicious if we did it right now, and I want it to look natural.
We have five more options stockpiled with ND, and two with GS. Hmm, that's actually enough to keep us going without need for the lux slider for roughly 50 more turns counting what we have going right now. I'll definitely be
asking them for a luxury item then.
Jared |
If they have 5 options stockpiled, I believe it's a no brainer... they will barely be able to use them all in a meaningful way until the game is over.
Leo is right that we should not read all that much into GS' response in case they do not refuse. Who knows, maybe even GS can learn a (backstab) thing - after all, they sorta owe one to Vox. 
But I would still lean towards considering their Code of Honor™ pretty much unbreakable (especially after they advertised it so heavily in the public forum) - and a chance that their reaction might suggest something to us and Vox more than negligible.
Anyway... I'm glad there are things we can discuss and plan for with Vox, even if they are nothing major. I hope that this way (and with all the gold , tech, & population support), they feel sorta part of the grand plan and will not start getting thoughts...
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Kloreep
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of the pillow
Jun 2002
time: 00:26
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From Beta.
quote:
Here is the message I sent earlier today. I guess Vondrack and Tibi are stepping out.
----- Original Message -----
Hello gentlemen. I know you have heard it from us before, but let me say how sorry we are as to how things have turned out for Lego. We really were pulling for you; and it went beyond the natural obligation we felt for you having saved us.
But, the game moves on, and we are now trying to tip-toe our way thorugh the diplomatic minefield that exists. We are also wondering what Lego plans on doing next. Do your transports need a safe haven? Do you want a Vox city to work with? Would you like us to try and negotiate a homeland for you somewhere? Or are you on a final suicidal run at GS? You don't need to answer the last if that's what it is, but if you need our help with any of the other options, please let us know.
We are also negotiating tech deals, and so far it looks like we would be able to keep you at tech parity (I am embarassed to say that given our reversed relationship in the past) as long as you do not use the techs to do further dealings with. At least that was ND's position. I am not sure where GoW and GS stand. As I find out more I will let you know.
As I am taking over from Rhothaerill for awhile, please do not hesitate to contact me, or if I am slow in responding, try conmcb25.
Regards - and looking to hear from you. ...Beta. |
Here's the reply I sent:
quote:
Yep, Vondrack and Tiberius aren't active anymore. ZargonX is heading Legoland now, and I and some others like Jack_www are still active as well.
Thanks for the city offer. The team agreed we don't want to stay in the game once we're ultimately defeated. That doesn't rule out city gifting, but we aren't looking for a permanent home. Thanks for the tech offer too, but that probably won't matter either. (Unless the world already has Nuclear Power, in which case I'm sure our ships could use more movement.)
One thing I would like to ask... what would you think about Lego forces landing in Vox with a RoP and coming on to the Legos rail network via your territory? It would probably be fairly obvious where they came from to GS and GoW, so if you don't want to risk what are no doubt delicate diplomatic relations with them, that's understandable. I wouldn't want you guys to put yourselves at risk unless you're okay with it.
-Kloreep |
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Apolyton Time is 00:26. |
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30-07-2004 15:59
Serious. We could really use some fun stuff (like MZ's Imperial City thread) that would spark a lighthearted debate in the public forum. I mean, even lighthearted debate on the bribery involved in naming Legoland carriers might help us gain some tidbits of info we are currently only guessing on... or... or to spread some propaganda...!? 
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