16-02-2003 07:48									#61
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The desturction of the Amerindian pops. due to disease.

	16-02-2003 07:51									#62
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I am going to go with the invasion of the Fertile Crescent by the Amorite Arabs who begat the Hebrews who begat Judaism who begat Christianity who begat Islam. Christianity destroyed much of the knowledge and the works of the Roman Empire; Islam did the same to the Persian Empire.

The Creation of the first government/rulership.

Uh, governments are the inevitable result of agriculture. Are you down on that too?

I'd rather be a lemur than a pre-21st century ape.

	16-02-2003 07:55									#63
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo Uh, governments are the inevitable result of agriculture. Are you down on that too?

Yes, we should of stayed in our caves.



But it's not neccisarily the inevitable result.... atleast, not the same way as we know them.

	16-02-2003 07:57									#64
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov Such people aren't born, they are made. I don't think Hitler was destined to become such a man, nor were any of the others.

Isn't there a play being performed in Vienna right now about a young Adolph Hitler? It supposed to show a young man and how he was pushed and pulled by his times so that dormant evil in his personality became the dominant trait.

	16-02-2003 07:57									#65
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quote: Originally posted by St Leo I am going to go with the invasion of the Fertile Crescent by the Amorite Arabs who begat the Hebrews who begat Judaism who begat Christianity who begat Islam. Christianity destroyed much of the knowledge and the works of the Roman Empire; Islam did the same to the Persian Empire.

Um -- Catholic monasteries, especially Irish monks, were partly responsible for the preservation of future generational knowledge of the ancient world.

And the Catholic religion, while exploitative in the feudal system, did provide some base of stability in the early Middle Ages until better systems would emerge centuries later.

Isn't it the case that if it weren't for Catholic monks, we would probably have far less knowledge of the ancient world that we have, today?

	16-02-2003 08:08									#66
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"In 1492, Columbus sailed the ocean blue."

I've always like the idea of living in a traditional society. The Native Americans in California only worked 30 hours a day and they didn't have war as it exists in other societies. They might have armed conflicts but the matter would be resolved before someone got killed usually. That's way cool

	16-02-2003 08:08									#67
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quote: The Native Americans in California only worked 30 hours a day

Lucky them.

	16-02-2003 08:23									#69
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quote: Originally posted by MrFun As for me, I cannot settle with just one choice, so here it goes: 1) invention of nuclear weaponry 2) Inquisition (reinforced the use of religion in name of hatred) 3) American imperialism of the late 19th and early 20th centuries 4) the creation of a nation out of a huge asylum -- France

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, WHOA!... wait a minute here! You go on and on and on in thread after thread about evil white male Southerners and their bastardization of the tenth amendment, in essence making "states rights"="codeword for oppression", and you don't even bring that up? Are you feeling ok, Mr. Fun?

I'm going to say the invention of slavery, by some unknown bastard in the deep recesses of history.

	16-02-2003 08:24									#70
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I still believe that that first monkey who came down from the tree has a lot to answer for. Swinging through the trees all day, eating bananas and getting to sleep lots sounds damn good to me.

I'd also people who inflicted their "civilised" cultures on "barbarian" cultures have caused a heck of a lot of misery and suffering so they can be chucked on the bonfire too.


btw if I remember rightly, didn't the African tribal leaders deliberately go out to capture prisoners from opposing tribes in order to sell them to European slavers? Naughty boys, propagating the slavery trade - the slavers themselves seemed to die pretty quickly & often on the journey from disease though which was nature's way of settling the score.

	16-02-2003 08:58									#72
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quote: Originally posted by Provost Harrison In all seriousness, the rise of Stalin.

Don't piss me off.

	16-02-2003 09:29									#73
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I nominate whatever it was that drove the Huns to undertake a several generation trek westweard from Mongolia to the plains of the Danube.

	16-02-2003 09:31									#74
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quote: Originally posted by JohnT I'm going to say the invention of slavery, by some unknown bastard in the deep recesses of history.

I think that goes back beyond history, since many pre-literate tribes have been known to take slaves.

	16-02-2003 10:10									#75
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Edit: Oh, never mind. I got your point.

	16-02-2003 10:29									#76
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The extinction of Neaderthals by Cro-Magnons. (I feel particulary guilty of this because, acourding to Mitochondrial DNA genetic studies, the ancestors of Scandinavians and and some ancient Britons, like Cheddar man, were the first people in Europe; arriving 45,000 years ago from Asia Minor then going north from the Balkans across E. Europe into Scandinavia) We didn't intentionally kill them, I think, but our thirst for hunting grounds led to us driving then into the mountains, where they starved.

	16-02-2003 10:39									#77
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The Japanese invasion and occupation of East and South East Asia 1930 - 1945.

	16-02-2003 11:37									#78
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quote: The plague was the real ignition. The sudden drop in population led to a huge demand for labor. The labor demand led to increased wages, which increased the standard of living. The rise of wealth in post-plague Europe was led to the Renaissance.

That's a pretty questionable assertion. The Renaissance started in a trade-orientated, city-dominated economy (Italy). As such, there was no real disparity in rates of death between workers and owners that you'd see in a more rural area, thus no real increases in the wages of workers. Furthermore, the Black Death hit trade pretty badly.

OTOH, in places like England and France, while there were increases in the wages of peasants, the state had been artificially suppressing these wages by enserfing villeins (in the previous century, serfdom was dying fairly rapidly, but the Black Death changed that).

I'd say that if you're going to attribute the Renaissance to a single thing, it'd be the Crusades (well, that's not a "single thing," but what is? ).

	16-02-2003 11:48									#79
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quote: I'd say that if you're going to attribute the Renaissance to a single thing, it'd be the Crusades

Well, indirectly anyway . The Italians were smart enough to be, well, cosmopolitan. Of course, it was naturally Italian to be that way, since they had to coexist with Arabs in Sicily, Greeks in Naples and Apulia, and a whole host of ethnicities in the North.

It was Italy that was best receptive to Arab coming from North Africa. Another reason why trade is good .

As for the event that caused the most damage.... hmmm... this may not be an event, but I'll throw Genghis Khan's hordes coming out from Mongolia into the mix.

quote: Christianity destroyed much of the knowledge and the works of the Roman Empire; Islam did the same to the Persian Empire.

Islamic tribes were very pro education. It was they who preserved Roman education when the Christians were burning books. Don't worry, they saved Persian works as well.

	16-02-2003 11:51									#80
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No one has mentioned the great plague. 2 out of every 3 people in Europe died as a result.

I also think that the library in Alexandria was a major setback.

The sacking of Rome being the end of the important event: The fall of the Roman Empire.

If I had to pick one...it would be the fall of Rome. It took European civilization close to 1000 years to fully recover.

	16-02-2003 12:05									#81
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I hope that some of yuo are just being silly

becuase otherwise

Jon Miller

	16-02-2003 12:20									#82
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Nobody mentioned Mongol rampages across the Eurasian continent, and that of their of ancestors, the Huns.

The damages caused by these barbarians to the civilization were unmeasureable.

	16-02-2003 12:28									#83
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quote: Nobody mentioned Mongol rampages across the Eurasian continent

I did ... and only 2 posts above yours.

	16-02-2003 12:31									#84
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quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui quote: Nobody mentioned Mongol rampages across the Eurasian continent I did ... and only 2 posts above yours.

Yours is buried among a pile of other texts.

	16-02-2003 12:39									#85
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Well there is this new thing called reading .

	16-02-2003 18:54									#86
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hi ,

the Shoah

have a nice day

	16-02-2003 18:59									#87
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Merciless Nobody mentioned Mongol rampages across the Eurasian continent, and that of their of ancestors, the Huns. The damages caused by these barbarians to the civilization were unmeasureable.

They didn't do much damage in terms of destruction of either knowledge or human life.

	16-02-2003 19:14									#88
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creation of israel
creation of "the bomb"

	16-02-2003 19:27									#89
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WW2 of course, but if you want single events, Hiroshima and Nagasaki would be quite high on my list.

	16-02-2003 19:27									#90
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 creation of israel creation of "the bomb"

hi ,

how can the creation of Israel be related to the topic , .....

bye