16-02-2003 19:32									#91
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Merciless Nobody mentioned Mongol rampages across the Eurasian continent, and that of their of ancestors, the Huns. The damages caused by these barbarians to the civilization were unmeasureable.

I mentioned the Huns.

	16-02-2003 19:36									#92
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quote: Originally posted by panag hi , how can the creation of Israel be related to the topic , ..... bye

I could see saying the British arbitrarily dividing up the ME was a pretty bad thing for the future. The manner in which Israel was created perhaps can be seen as something truly negative, though I would say its existence in a general sense is certainly a positive.

	16-02-2003 19:38									#93
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panag, imagine the mideast without israel...

	16-02-2003 19:41									#94
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 panag, imagine the mideast without israel...

It likely wouldn't be any more peaceful. The Arabs would be able to focus on warring on themselves rather than being distracted by the Jews.

	16-02-2003 19:41									#95
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger They didn't do much damage in terms of destruction of either knowledge or human life.

The Mongol hordes of Genghiz Khan reduced the population of China and the middle east by nearly one-third, and the population of Europe by about one-quarter. Since they never got past Poland their destruction would have been concentrated in eastern europe and must have been catastrophic in propoprtions.

The Huns broke the power of the western Roman empire and depopulated large parts of Germany, and the norhtern provinces of the Roman empires, eastern and western. They drove the German tribes across the Rhine and Danube before them, and therefore can be considered to have been the penultimate cause of the fall of ther western empire and the beginning of the dark ages.

	16-02-2003 19:42									#96
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but america wouldnt be backing the sworn enemy of the arabs...

	16-02-2003 19:44									#97
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I'm sure we'd be backing someone's sworn enemy, meddling in affairs as usual, and I'm sure the Osama crowd would still hate the U.S. for its wealth, power and interference.

	16-02-2003 19:50									#98
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov I could see saying the British arbitrarily dividing up the ME was a pretty bad thing for the future. The manner in which Israel was created perhaps can be seen as something truly negative, though I would say its existence in a general sense is certainly a positive.

Would the locals dividing up the area have been any better? The Ottomans had divided the area up as provinces which were not established according to tribal holdings. At this time the Saudis were rather ambitious, and likely would have initiated a Jihad to unite the Arab world, i.e., Iraq, Syria, the Gulf states, and Palestine. Certainly there would have been war, and certainly the Europeans would have been invited in by some of the warring parties. The results would have been the nearly the same, temporary European occupation and borders with which many people would not have been happy.
Didn't the royal families established in Jordan, Syria, and Iraq all come from Saudi Arabia?

	16-02-2003 19:50									#99
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maybe, but it doesnt hurt to eliminate harmful factors.

oh yeah, another bad thing for humanity: brahms' birth

	16-02-2003 19:51									#100
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quote: Originally posted by Boris Godunov It likely wouldn't be any more peaceful. The Arabs would be able to focus on warring on themselves rather than being distracted by the Jews.

Yes, the Shiites and the Sunnis could concentrate on each other. How romantic.

	16-02-2003 19:52									#101
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Nyuk nyuk nyuk

	16-02-2003 19:56									#102
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quote: Originally posted by MRT144 but america wouldnt be backing the sworn enemy of the arabs...

if we had troops in Saudi Arabia, to protect it from Iraq, we would be (well, the sworn enemies of the radical arabs, like Bin Laden). Of course, by the time Iraq had invaded Kuwait (causing the US to put it's troops in SA), he would have already have had nuclear weapons, so I dunno if we'd want to risk putting in troops into Saudi Arabia.

	16-02-2003 20:00									#103
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Event 1. That event both allowed for the creation of Humanity, and, thanks to the laws of thermodynamics, will inevitably destroy humanity. Both of which were pretty damaging events for humanity.

	16-02-2003 21:21									#104
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The invention of agriculture. This caused human populations to grow far beyond the somewhat stable level they had been at for thousands of years. With agriculture, human beings have been able to sustain populations of 6 billion and rising. More people = more bad sh1t.

	16-02-2003 21:36									#105
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quote: Originally posted by Sava The invention of agriculture. This caused human populations to grow far beyond the somewhat stable level they had been at for thousands of years. With agriculture, human beings have been able to sustain populations of 6 billion and rising. More people = more bad sh1t.

As opposed to humans remaining nomads, and there fore remaing leopard chow as there is ample evidence thereof in South Africa. Would you be happier if your daily exercise routine included being chased by large carnivors?

	16-02-2003 21:43									#106
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove As opposed to humans remaining nomads, and there fore remaing leopard chow as there is ample evidence thereof in South Africa. Would you be happier if your daily exercise routine included being chased by large carnivors?

As oppossed to being shot down by a sniper, and not even seeing it coming.

	16-02-2003 21:45									#107
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quote: Originally posted by Dr Strangelove Would you be happier if your daily exercise routine included being chased by large carnivors?

That still is the case for many people, the only difference is that the predators wear suits these days.

	16-02-2003 22:21									#108
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Damn. AnnC got my usual answer first.

It's the Toba eruption, by miles.

	16-02-2003 22:24									#109
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quote: Originally posted by DuncanK As oppossed to being shot down by a sniper, and not even seeing it coming.

Not many countries in the world have inhabitants who have to worry about that kind of thing.

	16-02-2003 23:59									#110
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quote: Would you be happier if your daily exercise routine included being chased by large carnivors?

Yes... I feel much of humanity's arrogance is present because we're effectively the most dominant life form on the planet. The environment of the past in which only the strongest humans survived has quickly given way to the present world where human evolution has stagnated because we don't have any competition.

There are a ton of dumbass people in the world that wouldn't survive in that kind of world. It's good for the evolution of the human race.

	17-02-2003 00:47									#111
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quote: Originally posted by Urban Ranger They didn't do much damage in terms of destruction of either knowledge or human life.

Really?

What about the fact that Northern China was depopulated by at least 2/3 during their invasions? What about the fact they massaced entire cities of Zhong Du, Kai Feng, Bukhara, Samarkand, and Baghdad, and many more?

Later, due their mismanagement during the Yuan Dynasty, another 20 millions or so Chinese found their deaths. Maybe you should know that Jin and Song had together well over 100 million inhabitants, but at the end of Zhong Yuanzhang's reign in 1393(already 25 years into the recovery), the entire China had only 60 million people.

At same time, Tamerlane was running amok in Persia and Northern India, culminating with his massacre of India in 1399 and errecting a SKULL PYRAMID of about 80,000 people.

	17-02-2003 00:49									#112
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quote: Originally posted by Sava The invention of agriculture. This caused human populations to grow far beyond the somewhat stable level they had been at for thousands of years. With agriculture, human beings have been able to sustain populations of 6 billion and rising. More people = more bad sh1t.

Sure, let me kill you to get started. I'll be glad to remove a filth like yourself from this planet.

	17-02-2003 01:05									#113
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quote: Originally posted by DuncanK As oppossed to being shot down by a sniper, and not even seeing it coming.

	17-02-2003 01:30									#114
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quote: Originally posted by Lord Merciless Sure, let me kill you to get started. I'll be glad to remove a filth like yourself from this planet.

Over the line...

	17-02-2003 02:48									#115
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I agree to those who suggested the destruction of the Great Library. That was the start of the dark ages, when people went back to believing the world is flat. (Also see my signature)

But the world wars were the worst events in recent time.

	17-02-2003 03:05									#116
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The population loss after the Toba eruption is only part of the story. Consider the loss of diversity to the gene pool.

It turned us all into Freepers.

	17-02-2003 04:37									#117
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Death, obviously.

The creation of firearms/weaponry/warfare

The Rise and Fall of Imperialism
Soviet Communism
Nazism
The Atomic Bomb
Ultra-Nationalism

	17-02-2003 04:39									#118
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The Toba eruption has made the human race less diverse than a SINGLE group of chimps are!

	17-02-2003 05:15									#119
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quote: Originally posted by Oerdin The fall of Rome sent humanity back by 500 years.

I agree. The resulting dark age was catasrophic to human development and progression. The destruction of teh Great Libraby is another very dark event.

	17-02-2003 05:48									#120
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It's almost tragic that some of the simple things the Roma's invented took another 1000 - 1500 years to be reinvented. Does make you wonder what might have been done with the extra time without the dark ages. Saying that though, the "dark ages" weren't that dark - a lot of science was done in the era according to recent historians.

Plus the Roman Empire wasn't exactly somewhere you'd have liked to have lived in, far far less personal freedoms than a modern society and the lions were always pleased to see you if you were naughty.