19-02-2003 02:07									#241
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger It's like watching two trains collide in slo-mo...

The casualties will be the chains that bind the EU to the US

	19-02-2003 02:08									#242
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Rumsfeld is a c*ck gobbler...

	19-02-2003 02:11									#243
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All of this is done because of interests of course.
Noone is "pacifist" and noone a "warmonger".

Still the aftermath will be really entertaining.

First time ever that NATO got vetoed.
First time Turkey REALLY squized the US dry for help and then pose problems to that help.
First time there was a concrete European stance that is opposite to the US one.

War on Iraq helps:
_Antiamericanism spread.
_EU cohesion procedures to speed up.

I honestly believe that Bush has gotten more than he though he'd get.

	19-02-2003 02:13									#244
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quote: War on Iraq helps: _Antiamericanism spread.

	19-02-2003 02:14									#245
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quote: First time there was a concrete European stance that is opposite to the US one.

I've yet to see a concrete statement come out of Europe but I fail to see how the statement that just came out of the recent EU summit is all that different from the US stance.

	19-02-2003 02:16									#246
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quote: Originally posted by Sava There's not one other damn country in the world where this could have happened.

Canada?, Australia, New Zealand, Belize etc.

Not in Greece or France though

	19-02-2003 02:17									#247
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 War on Iraq helps: _Antiamericanism spread. _EU cohesion procedures to speed up.

Not with Chirac screwing it up, and it seems evident that Germany has another reason to be against this besides cohesion with France.

	19-02-2003 02:17									#248
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The EU declaration had something for everyone so each can interpet it any way he wants.

The bottom line was a synthesis of opposing views that went some way away from the US stance. i.e. give the inspectors more time to work.

However the core EU stance (Germany France Greece (which is small but presiding which gives it more clout in coordination procedures) and all other EU countries (besides UK, Spain - not counting Italy and Denmark)
was really in full swing against the US stance: we won't support a war - period. This is also bargaining power of course.

	19-02-2003 02:18									#249
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 First time Turkey REALLY squized the US dry for help and then pose problems to that help.

They should have demanded Greek Troops defend
them against Iraq. And lots of them.

	19-02-2003 02:19									#250
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Spin, spin, spin.

	19-02-2003 02:19									#251
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quote: Originally posted by DuncanK Not with Chirac screwing it up, and it seems evident that Germany has another reason to be against this besides cohesion with France.

He doesn't really. 80% of Europeans are anti - war on Iraq. He's just expressing their views and gives out warning signals to the newbies

40 year old Ozzy, psychological problems and cluelesness, hold strong I see

	19-02-2003 02:23									#252
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Spin, spin, spin.

I always knew the truth was too complicated for you moneypenny, that's why I generally avoid to have to confront you with it. (wouldn't want a meltdown)

	19-02-2003 02:23									#253
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 40 year old fart OZZ, your psychological problems keep going I see Sava, I am antiamerican in what the US is and has been. When these reasons are gone not me and not anyone else would be I don't undestand why the word anti-americanism scares you. It means opposing US foreign policy. You shouldn't take troll responces to troll posts and arguments and put it in the same basket.

Paiktis, Wouldn't it be better to say that anti-Americanism is premised on the belief that American foreign policy is imperlialistic?

For example, the anti-American's believe that the US wants war with Iraq to dominate its oil and extend its own power. Not so?

	19-02-2003 02:24									#254
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What percentage of Europeans want to be bullied by the French. That is, not including the French and of course the Greeks

	19-02-2003 02:26									#255
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Dunkan, the mistake in your reasoning is assuming that countries with policies identical to France's are bullied
BTW I wasn't joking when saying that antiamericanism runs very strong in Europe.

Ned, that's the reason coupled with a bit of misplaced paranoia for further terrorist attacks.

	19-02-2003 02:26									#256
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quote: Originally posted by Ozz Canada?, Australia, New Zealand, Belize etc. Not in Greece or France though

nope, nope, nope, nope... you got the last two right though

	19-02-2003 02:30									#257
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Many people in Europe would just love to see US go up in flames just for the heck of it.
That's fact.
(there was an interesting piece in Times Europe about that, not the best mag but would do, it's also in english)

Noone cares about Canada though.

	19-02-2003 02:32									#258
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Dunkan, the mistake in your reasoning is assuming that countries with policies identical to France's are bullied

Whether they agree or not is not the point. France is taking an imperialistic approach to the situation, and sure enough the Eastern European countries expressed their anger over this. Did you see the comments that were made by these countries? Very independent minded, some were anti-EU.

	19-02-2003 02:33									#259
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Just to keep the pretences.
Actually they were mislead by the US in making up a "counter offencive"... letter ( ) just for american internal consumption.

Believe me noone really cares enough for the US except maybe the UK governemnt

And of course agreeing or not IS the point

	19-02-2003 02:39									#260
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Also for countries like Bulgaria, FYROM and Albania (which are dependent on Greece)is a trading tool.

"Erm LOOK. We want more of your money or we'll send another letter to the US"

The responce was: you won't get more money and you won't enter the EU

Choose

	19-02-2003 02:39									#261
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Just to keep the pretences. Actually they were mislead by the US in making up a "counter offencive"... letter ( ) just for american internal consumption. Believe me noone really cares enough for the US except maybe the UK governemnt And of course agreeing or not IS the point

Once again you base your entire position on that of the US which forces you to be blinded with what is going on in your own continent.

	19-02-2003 02:41									#262
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Actually you're the one who's just making assumtions

	19-02-2003 02:42									#263
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To avoid further confusion: Mislead means that they didn't think there would be a backlash

	19-02-2003 02:42									#264
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quote: Originally posted by Sava nope, nope, nope, nope... you got the last two right though

Only in the states eh, Must be Irish.

	19-02-2003 02:43									#265
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wrong again poor ozzy

	19-02-2003 02:46									#266
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 Believe me noone really cares enough for the US except maybe the UK governemnt

Wrong Socrates, Canada cares, just that sometimes
you got to give your friend a slap upside the head and
tell them to quit being such a fricking moron.

	19-02-2003 02:47									#267
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Maybe but who gives a flying **** about Canada?

I was talking about Europe.
my little perturbated illusions of granduer ozzy

	19-02-2003 02:49									#268
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quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 wrong again poor ozzy

It's a joke, noodlenoggan.

	19-02-2003 02:50									#269
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Just about like everything else you say, my sad 40 year old fart

	19-02-2003 02:53									#270
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Who are you trying to kid Zorba? You aren't anti-American. If I ever came to Greece, we'd have a good time. Something tells me that you're a fun drunk.