20-02-2003 02:31									#1
	Klein warns Ottawa of separation threat Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Submitted without comment.

http://www.canada.com/calgary/story...D3-B769069F4F69

quote: Klein warns Ottawa of separation threat Throne speech sends signal Tom Olsen, Legislature Bureau Chief Calgary Herald Wednesday, February 19, 2003 The Alberta government used its speech from the throne to warn Ottawa of separation threats in the province and signal a growing sentiment Albertans feel left out of the essential workings of the country. "I think Canadians understand Albertans are proud Canadians who want to be part of the Canadian mosaic," said Premier Ralph Klein after the speech, delivered Tuesday by Lt.-Gov. Lois Hole. "But you can't be part of the Canadian family if big brother down there in Ottawa doesn't want you as part of the family." Political opponents immediately accused the premier of picking a fight with Ottawa to cloud the province's performance on health care, education and other issues. "They have raised the red herring of national unity," said New Democrat Leader Raj Pannu. In the speech, Hole said Albertans want to be full partners in Confederation, "but true partnership is only possible when all parties are respected and valued for what they bring to the table. "Alberta's ability to be a partner in Canada is compromised by the current federal government, which often does not listen to the people of this province." Klein said the intent was to inform Ottawa of Alberta's commitment to the country, but the province would rigorously fight for its voice on national issues. "Yes, I think it's a warning," said Klein. "I don't know what we're going to do other than continue to press the federal government to listen to our concerns, to pay attention to Albertans, to understand what a tremendous asset this province is to Confederation. "It goes without saying -- and don't slay the messenger -- there are a few people out there who unfortunately are talking separation. "I want to quell that. I don't like that kind of talk, but the federal government needs to be aware there is that kind of talk out there. "So all I'm saying to the feds is, 'Listen to us, don't give us the cold shoulder.' " Klein pointed to the national gun registry, the Kyoto accord and Senate reform as areas where Albertans were largely ignored. Alberta Liberal Leader Ken Nicol said the province has fallen short in so many areas it has taken on Ottawa to cover it up. "They're picking a fight with the feds and bringing up this issue of separation, just to divert the attention away from children, health, education and infrastructure," he said. In the speech, the government promises significant new spending to build schools, hospitals and other facilities. No dollar figure was attached, but Klein earlier this month said it will amount to more than $3 billion over three years. New legislation will be introduced in a bid to increase competition in the electricity market and bring down costs to consumers. In health, the government will strike committees to come up with optimum wait times for people seeking services such as hip replacements and consultations with specialists. "That's because even with one-third of all government spending going to health care, too many people are still waiting too long in emergency and for diagnostics, surgery, long-term care and other services," said Hole. "It will set limits on how long Albertans would wait for selected services like consultations with specialists and some major surgical procedures." The province will also move on establishing clinics staffed around the clock by doctors and nurses. School boards were given $20 million to spend on textbooks and other resources -- a sum far short of expectations of some boards looking for millions of dollars to cover the costs of last year's 14 per cent arbitrated settlement with teachers. Edmonton public school district has a $13.5-million deficit it says is caused by the wage settlement. The province will also increase benefits to low-income seniors, and will introduce fiscal reform that will allow the private sector to build public facilities, and will create a stabilization fund to smooth year-to-year program spending. The major new initiative outlined in the throne speech will create the Alberta Centre for Child, Family and Community Research, a non-profit organization dedicated to helping kids. Taken in tandem with the government's flagship bill, the Premier's Council on Alberta's Promise Act, the province "will enshrine in law this government's commitment to children and youth," said Hole. The council will be made up of more than 60 corporate players and other stakeholders, and will concentrate on identifying necessary programs for kids, and lead fundraising efforts to increase their viability.

	20-02-2003 02:35									#2
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You're just playing into the hands of the US. you will rebel, the yanks will chew you up, spit the pieces, and take over you, making you another state.

	20-02-2003 02:36									#3
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actually, some of those canadian states are quite large. couldn't we make them multiple states in the us?

that'd be kinda cool.

	20-02-2003 02:37									#4
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel You're just playing into the hands of the US. you will rebel, the yanks will chew you up, spit the pieces, and take over you, making you another state.

Thanks Azazel.

Only the problem is, historically, Canada "chewed us up, spit the pieces, took over us" and won't even give us the ability to elect senators as a province.

Many of the sepatationists believe we'd be better off as a US state or US territory, and I can't say their logic is flawed economically and politically. The problem is for that to happen, people in Alberta need to stop thinking they're Canadian.

	20-02-2003 02:38									#5
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Klein pointed to the national gun registry, the Kyoto accord and Senate reform as areas where Albertans were largely ignored.

Silly Ralph, We were ALL ignored.

We should just separate from Ottawa and Quebec City.

	20-02-2003 02:38									#6
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

Quebec:
"We want to seperate!"

Mr. Chretien:
"Here's some cash. Now go away."

Alberta/the West:
"We want a bigger role in Canada!"

"Eh, sorry?"

*Hands more money to Quebec*

"Not Quebec, us. Help us out here."

"Eh, sorry?"

*Hands more money to Quebec*

"That's it, give us money or we'll seperate"

"You're bluffing. Now go away."


Klein will have to talk with BC, if he is intent on seperation. No way Ontario will take Albertan secession seriously without BC as well.

	20-02-2003 02:39									#7
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel You're just playing into the hands of the US. you will rebel, the yanks will chew you up, spit the pieces, and take over you, making you another state.

Alberta has enough wealth to make it on its own if they really do leave.

Besides, we seem to treat out states a little better than Canada so they may like joining us.

	20-02-2003 02:41									#8
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Alberta is one of only two or three "have" provinces in Canada. All of the other provinces are considered "have not" provinces by the government.

Fiscally and socially Alberta could survive on its own, but it'd make more sense to become a US territory or state. It's just more complicated being a new country.

	20-02-2003 02:42									#9
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OK, then, no objections here.

I always like the Idea of NA joining under a single banner.

	20-02-2003 02:43									#10
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel I always like the Idea of NA joining under a single banner.

We really don't want all of them though.

	20-02-2003 02:49									#11
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc We really don't want all of them though.

Ok, You just take Lower Quebec and Sask.

	20-02-2003 02:50									#12
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Make it Alberta and BC instead and you have a deal.

	20-02-2003 02:52									#13
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Make it Alberta and BC instead and you have a deal.

Only if you take Lower Quebec and Sask.

	20-02-2003 02:53									#14
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What's so enticing about BC? Is it just so Alaska would be connected properly?

	20-02-2003 02:53									#15
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

DD: you can give Quebec to the French.

	20-02-2003 02:54									#16
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Is it just so Alaska would be connected properly?

Yes.

	20-02-2003 02:55									#17
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quote: Originally posted by DinoDoc Yes.

NO, the Alaska highway runs though Alberta.

	20-02-2003 02:56									#18
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I meant by connected properly, as in their entire southern border and coastline would be US.

	20-02-2003 02:58									#19
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If you gave us Alaska then it would be connected properly too

	20-02-2003 03:09									#20
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Snooze. Albertan whiners and Quebec whiners are so similar. That's why you hate each other so much.

The fact is that neither side has the stones for it.

	20-02-2003 03:11									#21
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quote: Originally posted by Azazel OK, then, no objections here. I always like the Idea of NA joining under a single banner.

	20-02-2003 03:12									#22
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We wouldn't want Quebec anyway, Frogger.

	20-02-2003 03:13									#23
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You can't have any of our bits and pieces, sweetheart.

My Canada includes Alberta, despite the fact that Asher lives there.

	20-02-2003 03:13									#24
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger Snooze. Albertan whiners and Quebec whiners are so similar. That's why you hate each other so much. The fact is that neither side has the stones for it.

Today? No, we don't.
Wait until Klein's replacement comes in whenever he retires.

The younger generation is more disallusioned with Ottawa these days and has far less incentive to stay part of Canada.

Quebec benefits by staying part of Canada.
Canada benefits by Alberta staying part of Canada.

Different situations...

	20-02-2003 03:14									#25
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You Americans have always had such an inferiority complex about us.

Really, the extra half-million square kilometers doesn't make that much of a difference. Honestly...

	20-02-2003 03:16									#26
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quote: I always like the Idea of NA joining under a single banner.

The day the ME joins together as a single country, we'll talk about it...

	20-02-2003 03:19									#27
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quote: Originally posted by Frogger You Americans have always had such an inferiority complex about us.

	20-02-2003 03:20									#29
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I agree with Frogger, and Garth Vader.

By giving us Alaska all the area of NA is coterminus with their respective countries.

You'll score big brownie points with your neighbour of the north.


Secondly, I don't support BC seperation. I think Canada just has to give more political clout to the West so that we stay.

If the US wants BC and Alberta, they can try to take us.

	20-02-2003 03:23									#30
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quote: Originally posted by Asher Quebec benefits by staying part of Canada. Canada benefits by Alberta staying part of Canada. Different situations...

Agreed. Alberta and Ontario are the only two provinces with the economic strength to go it alone. But there isn't much separist sentiment here in Ontario.