20-02-2003 08:15									#1
	Turn 1 Got spare money?

The sav is here. I have taken a shot of our start. It is not bad, not spectacular either.

I am going to the chat room now. #ApolytonISDG

Nothing will be discussed there before we feel comfortable with security.

	20-02-2003 08:45									#3
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

My suggestion:

Move the worker W to scout, and build right where we are.

	20-02-2003 08:49									#4
	Support Apolyton

I would send him W to scout, and wait to see what he sees before we decide to build or not.

I would lean strongl;y away from building where we stand. Neither a coastal harbour nor an inland powerhouse.

	20-02-2003 08:53									#5
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

But it is a city with game and 1 shielded tile. Enough to start our building.

On more consideration, I believe we should build, and road the game tile. No need to scout with our worker if we're not going to move our settler...

	20-02-2003 08:56									#6
	Support Apolyton, buy Galactic Civilizations: Deluxe Edition

I assume we're not standing on a Bonus Grassland, right?

This is a tough start to evaluate. My initial reaction is to go 1 with the Worker, and build immediately unless something really promising shows up. We "lose" three coastal tiles without the ability to build a Harbor, but the other option is to delay our growth by moving away from the two best visible tiles).

Moving the Worker onto 4 onto the Hill is an interesting plan, just not one that I often use. True, it gives us valuable information, but we lose 1 turn of Worker action.

Decisions, decisions. Sorry, I can offer no concrete advice right now...


Dominae

Last edited by Dominae on 20-02-2003 at 09:02

	20-02-2003 09:04									#7
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization III: Complete

Another option: move the Settler 4 onto the Hill, and the Worker onto the Bonus Grassland. I'm not sure about the order, though.

I'm slowly convincing myself this is the right play. We'll get an inland city, and there will be room 6-6-3 from our Hill city-site for city along the coast.


Dominae

	20-02-2003 09:35									#8
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

It has been decided by two Consuls (nye & vondrack, Ninot not being online at that time yet) to move the worker south first, take another screenshot and let everybody have a say.



Now, listen everybody!

We want everybody to feel like he/she is part of the team. Thus, we will let everybody have a say for this turn, even if it means delaying the game by several hours. The final decision will be taken by the Consulate at 8pm GMT today or shortly afterwards. That should be time enough for people from all parts of the world to comment and express their preference.

Go comment!

Last edited by vondrack on 20-02-2003 at 09:45

	20-02-2003 09:38									#9
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Move the Settler 4 (West ) onto the Hill. That's my vote.


Dominae

	20-02-2003 09:38									#10
	Inflate your Upload Space

Looks like build where we are and take advantage of tight initial spacing to maximise production and open the door for an early palace jump.

	20-02-2003 09:40									#11
	Increase the size of your Attachments

By the way, this is a great start for a Granary: 2 Bonus Grassland, 2 choppable Forest, and a > 2 Food source once we've chopped down the trees around the Game.


Dominae

	20-02-2003 09:44									#12
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

We may in fact have to jump our Palace into a jungle...Palace jumps should not be planned on turn 1, but once more of the map reveals itself. I think the move onto the Hill is the right play. Even if we decide to move our Palace later (looks like a good idea, since we're on a easter coast), we'll have started a strong economy with a Granary and bonus Food.

Also consider that, if we stay where we are, we cannot avoided popping the Hut once our borders expand. That could be very annoying if 2-3 Warriors show up while we want to be expanding.


Dominae

	20-02-2003 09:44									#13
	Increase Your PM Length

quote: Originally posted by Dominae By the way, this is a great start for a Granary: 2 Bonus Grassland, 2 choppable Forest, and a > 2 Food source once we've chopped down the trees around the Game. Dominae

That's what I said.

	20-02-2003 09:46									#14
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: Originally posted by Trip That's what I said.

Then I second what you said.

	20-02-2003 10:14									#15
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

If we decide to move the settler, then we get a good chance that goodie hut will be favourable.

1. Move the settler

End turn.

THen
Move the worker onto the goodie hut.
Barbarians will only appear if you have a capital founded.
Therefore we are guaranteed a good goodie hut pop (Or at worst, a deserted village)

Then settle the city.

I am quite certain about about the no-barbs rule in original civ. Does anyone know it still holds true in PTW ?

Yes we will lose 2 worker moves...but we are industrious and will catch up

Regs

	20-02-2003 10:20									#16
	Suffering from ads?

Seems a little wasteful. We're putting our production back just to avoid some Barbs we'll trounce when we get around to it (if they do show up in the first place).

1. Move the Settler.

Next turn:

2. Found the city.
3. Move the Worker onto the Bonus Grassland.


Dominae

	20-02-2003 11:14									#17
	Increase Your PM Length

Since we're taking opinions on this matter....I'd move the settler west and see what's there (I would've moved the worker there first, but oh well) then move the worker to the hut. Next move is decided by what the settler sees.

	20-02-2003 11:30									#18
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

What is SE, E from the settler? Is it water or not? I can't figure it out. Because if the SE forest tile is coastal, I'd move the settler there.

	20-02-2003 11:39									#19
	Put an end to popups!

That tile is not coastal, Tiberius, it's a Grassland (or Bonus Grassland...).

Just a protocol that GS likes to use, and that can be applied here as well: when talking about directions, instead of using 'W', 'SE', etc. use the numbers of the keypad instead. So, due North is 8, East is 6, etc. This way you can say "let's move our Warrior 668" or somesuch. Much easier to remember, I think, since most of us got used to moving units using the keypad in Civ2.


Dominae

	20-02-2003 11:42									#20
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Move the worker onto the goodie hut. Barbarians will only appear if you have a capital founded. Therefore we are guaranteed a good goodie hut pop (Or at worst, a deserted village)

This is true? I did not know that. That does add some weight to the thought of poping the hut immediately. Can we verify this as fact?

	20-02-2003 12:02									#21
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

quote: That tile is not coastal, Tiberius, it's a Grassland (or Bonus Grassland...).

Yes, I think you're right. It doesn't seem to be coastal. I just hoped it so.

Btw, it is much more difficult for me to remember "move worker 668" Indeed I used the numpad in Civ2, but I did not think in numbers when I moved the units. For me the SE-E-E is just more obvious.

But back to business. I'd say we build the city where the settler is staying right now. If we move it on the hill then what? What if we see a gorgeous place 2 tiles away? Lose another 2 turns?
Right now we have agame, 2 bonus grasslands, 3 hills, 2 forests to chop down. It is more than enough for the early centuries. We can build 2 warriors, a settler and then maybe a granary. Looks good for me.

As for the goody hut: I thought you can't pop barbs until at least one city reaches size 2 (or 3?). I might be wrong, though.

	20-02-2003 12:31									#22
	Got spare money?

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius As for the goody hut: I thought you can't pop barbs until at least one city reaches size 2 (or 3?). I might be wrong, though.

I'm pretty sure I've popped huts with my initial settler before, so I think you're wrong about that.

	20-02-2003 12:35									#23
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

The reason I'm in favor of going West is for two reasons actually:

1. If East of where the settler is now is Ocean (and not just some small lake, we will incur more distance from capital peanalties as we expand our empire than if we could at least surround our Capitol with at least one layer of cities before reaching an Ocean. Since we cannot expand into the Ocean we lose valuable land that is close to the Capitol and thus valuable cities that would've become absolute powerhouses under our civ's special attributes.

2. There is no water available to the city, so our growth is limited to 6 unless we build an aqueduct. How many shields is that... a lot! 'Wasting' a couple of turns to find an ideal Center of our empire is not so big of a deal, especially if we find a really 'sweet' spot in 2-4 turns. In fact a nice spot will more than compensate for the 'loss' of turns while securing a new location.

I hope this may help the Consuls with the arduous task of settling our great Civilization of Apolyton.

	20-02-2003 12:44									#24
	Tired of ads?

quote: Originally posted by FrustratedPoet I'm pretty sure I've popped huts with my initial settler before, so I think you're wrong about that.

FP, I didn't say can't pop huts with settlers, I said you can't get barbs from huts until at least one city grows to size 2 or 3. Like I said, I'm not sure though.

	20-02-2003 12:49									#25
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Tiberius, you can get Barbs any time after you have a city. You can pop huts prior to a city without Barbs, but not after, unless you are Expantionist.

	20-02-2003 12:58									#26
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius FP, I didn't say can't pop huts with settlers, I said you can't get barbs from huts until at least one city grows to size 2 or 3. Like I said, I'm not sure though.

Damn, sorry about that - it's early and I'm still half asleep - I read 'barbs' as 'huts' in your original post.

	20-02-2003 13:10									#27
	Support Apolyton, buy GURPS/ Alpha Centauri

Why was the worker sent 2 exploring and not on one of the hills?

I would move the settler 4 on the hill and build there. I just hate non-coastal cities with coastal tiles, they can't build a harbor and lose food, when working on water to make cash.

	20-02-2003 13:10									#28
	Full PM-box? Change here!

quote: Originally posted by notyoueither Tiberius, you can get Barbs any time after you have a city. You can pop huts prior to a city without Barbs, but not after, unless you are Expantionist.

I see. (is it then that barb encampments won't appear on the map until cities grow beyond 2?)

Anyway, in this case I'd pop the hut with the worker, but only if we don't found the capitol this turn .

Btw, what was the name of our capital? Apolyton?

	20-02-2003 13:19									#29
	Suffering from ads?

I suspect that popping a hut by founding a city directly next to it never gives Barbs. This was the case in civ 2, anyway.

Which brings up another Q: what type of land is under the hut? If it is a Bonus Grassland, it might be wise to move the settler onto the Game tile and found a city there.

This will combine both facts, if they are true.

If not, do not move onto the hill. You won't have the Game tile to work with in the first 10 turns, which is essential for growth purposes. In this light, it was a smart move to move the worker onto the Game, since we'll want to road there.

	20-02-2003 13:23									#30
	Suffering from ads?

Sir Ralph, I too hate non-coastal cities with coastal tiles, but think a bit when will the city use those tiles. By then we might very well have a different capital. It is more important now to expand quickly, and the current tile seems appropiate for this. Why lose another turn, when maybe beyond the hill is jungle? It might be cattle, but does the risk worth it?
Too bad we didn't explore the hills with the worker. Oh well ...