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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by vondrack
Considering this, the current plan is to pop the hut with our Worker on Turn 2. Unless there is a strong, well backed argument raised against this, that will be what we will play. |
Here's an attempt:
1. The only reason we would want to Road the Game before chopping the Forest is because we're already on the tile in question (so there's no wasted turns from this action).
2. Going for the Hut puts us off the Game tile. Therefore the reasoned move in (1) is no longer valid.
3. Once on the Hut tile, we have to move back onto the Game, in which case we waste turns again because we'll have to Road a Forest tile, or move through the Game onto the Bonus Grassland, in which case waste time in transit.
4. The other option would be to chop right away, but that requires some timing in terms of not wasting too many Shields on a cost-10 Warrior (we waste a minimum of Shields in any case...).
5. The Hut will most likely not give us a Settler, or even a tech. Our chances of getting these things are increased since Barbs are not an possibility, but they're still not more likely than a map or 25 Gold.
6. Early Worker actions are critical in setting up a strong early-game, as everything the Worker does has a cascade effect on future turns.
Dominae
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Dominae
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All this discussion should go in a 'Turn 2' thread, right? Can Citizens start threads?
Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Ralph
I accept the decision of the consulate, although I don't like it either. The worker move on the game was already pretty poor, given it was sent to explore. The tech decision is also not the best in my opinion. I can live with the city location, though.
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I didn't like it either, but I'm 99.44% sure it won't be a reason for us to lose this game. 
I'm in favor of building a road on the game tile and switch our tile worked to another so that our warrior production is delayed just enough so that the worker can pop the hut on the turn before the warrior is finished. Then if the tile under the hut is shielded, then we should road that also in the ensuing 2 turns; else move to the shileded tile already uncovered and road it.
BTW, when are the Consuls going to decide on the Ministers?
ed: sp
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by Dissident
I'll tell you right now, we don't have that great a starting position. It will take us a long time to turn into a powerhouse nation. |
Why make ourselves even weaker by making poor decisions with our Worker? The argument that"we can put ourselves back on track by hoping there's something awesome in that Hut" is the gambler mentality, and we're not so hard-pressed at this point to go there. A strong early-game, focusing on the basics will get see us toward a powerhouse position.
Although not as critical as in SMAC, good terraforming and micro-management is the key to success in Civ3. We can beat those other teams that chanced upon better starts than we.
Dominae
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Dominae
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quote:
Originally posted by joncnunn
Why the heck would we want to chop the gamed forest before the other Forest tiles??? |
Grassland: 2 Food
Game: +2 Food
Despotism penalty: -1 Food
Thus we get a 3-Food tile early, which will help our expansion greatly.
Ideally we would have opted to Mine the Bonus Grassland first, and use the chop to to help our Granary.
Right now I think the following is best:
1. Road Game
2. Mine+Road Bonus Grassland #1
3. Mine+Road Bonus Grassland #2
Not quite sure about the specifics, I think I'll go and run a test scenario...
Dominae
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vondrack
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Praha, Czech Republic
Jan 2002
time: 06:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Yes, absolutely. To find a Settler would be awesome, of course, but it would show only, that you were extremely lucky. I would say nothing about skills. You gamble, and that's not good so early. |
Sir Ralph, just to make it clear what was the reason for "scouting" with the Worker down to the game forest tile... it was not a gamble - after some discussion, it has become quite apparent that if we move it to the game forest tile, we would not only reveal some more of the potential city tiles, but would end up on the tile that would mostly likely be the first one to road. Should there be no goody hut right next to it (which we certainly did not hope for), we would now road. However, the goody hut is an opportunity hard to dismiss easily.
I have gone to great lengths making sure that popping the hut is NOT a gamble (and will run more tests, if time permits). Unless disbanding a unit affects the RNG (which I highly doubt), I have been able to verify there is no risk involved.
Being industrious, we can afford "wasting" two turns to try our luck with the hut - a warrior or (I am  to even mention it) a settler would be such a huge advantage! Even if we "waste" the first three turns of our Worker's time, he will catch up soon, making improved tiles available for the growing capital in time (3 turns to get the whole hut thing done, 3 turns to road the game forest tile, 1 turn to move to a bonus grassland, 3 turns to mine it, **Apolyton grows here** 2 turns to road it - from that point on, the initial delay shall be insignificant).
Speaking in "output", we will be losing 1 gpt for two turns spent popping the hut (having a non-roaded instead of a roaded game forest tile worked) and 1 gpt for two turns (working a non-roaded instead of a roaded bonus grassland). That's 4 gold altogether. I believe it is a bet acceptably low with possible gains very high.
I do admit that roading the game forest, while delaying the warrior production by 1 turn definitely is a possibility to be considered. It's basically just deciding whether to waste shields or gold.
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Dominae
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Can we wait half an hour or so before a poll? I've set up a test scenario and I'm running through the various courses of action now...
Dominae
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Dominae
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Ok, I've ran a few tests. I played a few games up to 2190BC, going with the "delay the Warrior" plan, which in retrospect is pretty good, given that the Hut is on a Bonus Grassland. Here are the two best scenarios:
1.
Cities: 2
Settlers en route: 1
Warriors: 5
Techs: Bronze Working, Pottery, 12 turns to Iron Working
Capital: Granary; size 1, growth in 5 turns (grows every 4)
City 2: Granary in ~6; size 2
2.
Cities: 3
Settlers en route: 1
Warriors: 5 + 1 in a few turns
Techs: Pottery, Bronze Working, 17 turns to Iron Working
Capital: Granary; size 1, growth in 2 turns (grows every 4)
City 2: Granary in ~8; size 2
City 3: Producing Warrior; size 2
Now, why the huge difference (1 more Settler at the same period in the game)? I researched Pottery first in the second scenario (wasting 3 Beakers on the switch). Without Pottery, there is simply no way to avoid a lot of lost Shields. Note that in scenario 1 the second city came up faster, scenario 2 caught up mighty fast.
My suggestion: stop researching Bronze Working and switch to Pottery immediately.
Dominae
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Dominae
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Sir Ralph, was this decision made yet, or are you just agreeing with me?
Dominae
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All times are GMT. The time now is 05:26.
Apolyton Time is 00:26. |
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21-02-2003 03:09
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