20-02-2003 13:29									#31
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I vote for moving the settler west, it should reveal more land and allow the extra bonus of the hill for defense it we decide to settle there.

	20-02-2003 13:38									#32
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We need that Game tile ASAP!.

There. I said it.

	20-02-2003 13:43									#33
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quote: Originally posted by Tiberius Sir Ralph, I too hate non-coastal cities with coastal tiles, but think a bit when will the city use those tiles. By then we might very well have a different capital. It is more important now to expand quickly, and the current tile seems appropiate for this. Why lose another turn, when maybe beyond the hill is jungle? It might be cattle, but does the risk worth it? Too bad we didn't explore the hills with the worker. Oh well ...

Beyond the hill is a little bit grassland, then desert, then plains, then grassland with forest again, if I know the map generator well enough (and I think I do).

	20-02-2003 14:15									#34
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My 2 cents (not able to write much since I'm now at work): Found the city right there and wait until the cultural border expansion to pop the goodie hut

	20-02-2003 14:19									#35
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quote: Originally posted by oliverfa My 2 cents (not able to write much since I'm now at work): Found the city right there and wait until the cultural border expansion to pop the goodie hut

That works extremely well, I can assure you. In the Strategy forum PBEM game 1 I popped 2 huts by city expansion. The six barbarians killed 2 warriors, my only worker, one citizen of my capital, pillaged all I had improved in the past 500 years and thus set me back hopelessly.

Popping huts by expansion, no, thanks. Better do it controlled with warriors.

	20-02-2003 15:32									#36
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We're getting nowhere. Let's make a poll.

	20-02-2003 15:54									#37
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No. We need to verify the different claims when and how barbarians may come out of the hut. If that is cleared up, we can decide much easier.

	20-02-2003 15:55									#38
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The barbarians issue doesn't matter that much. We have to decide to move the settler or not.

	20-02-2003 16:02									#39
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Another alternative :

Do not built City. Do not move. Settler skip turn #1.
If the hut turns out to be scrolls, then built City at the starting spot on turn #2.

I object to moving west into the hills, because it is unlikely that we will built city on the hills. So, we will have to move the Settler on turn #2 and built the city on turn #3.

	20-02-2003 16:15									#40
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Why would be unlikely to build the city on the hills? We'd gain a nice defence bonus. I'm against moving the settler, but building the city on the western hills is a (good) alternative.

	20-02-2003 16:25									#41
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster No. We need to verify the different claims when and how barbarians may come out of the hut. If that is cleared up, we can decide much easier.

** You do not get barbarians if you dont have a city **

If we decide to skip the turn, or move the settler, then I would use the worker to pop the hut.
At worst, the villiage is abandoned.
But more likely, we will get something good.

If we build the city, and pop the hut by natural border expansion, or by using our first warrior, we risk producing barbs which could sack the city and/or kill our worker and/or barbarian.

I we wait for our 2nd or 3rd warrior to pop the hut, we run the risk of some other civ popping it for us.

I too vote for skipping the turn, and settling where we are now.

It leaves hills for good future shield production.
We get the game tile
We get the bonus tiles
We get to pop the hut next turn

Sure we lose a few tiles to ocean, but this game will be well and truely decided before we ever get the population to work those tiles.

Regs

	20-02-2003 16:29									#42
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Hot_Enamel, it is true that we won't get barbarians, but what could we get?

Can we get science without actually having a civilization? Can we get settlers while we already have one? A unit would be nice, but other than that, the possibilities are money or the map of the region. Not very appealling, IMHO.

	20-02-2003 16:35									#43
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Actually, we won't get barbs if we don't have a military (which normally means running a full-on Farmer's Gambit)...

My opinion:

Settle where we are this turn, and next turn, use the worker to pop the hut. That way, we have a chance of popping another Settler (since we can never pop a Settler if we have one active). In order to get a chance of popping BW from the hut, set research to Warrior Code (since we will never get the tech we're researching from a hut).

	20-02-2003 16:47									#44
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And if we settle where we are ?
Expansion will take over the hut in 10 turns

We could pop barbarians...and lose a lot more.

It's just a a gamble that we have the option to avoid.

	20-02-2003 16:50									#45
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quote: Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov Actually, we won't get barbs if we don't have a military (which normally means running a full-on Farmer's Gambit)... My opinion: Settle where we are this turn, and next turn, use the worker to pop the hut. That way, we have a chance of popping another Settler (since we can never pop a Settler if we have one active). In order to get a chance of popping BW from the hut, set research to Warrior Code (since we will never get the tech we're researching from a hut).

I heard that it was no city.
I also heard it was no military.

So I am not sure.

If it is no military then the answer is obvious, and Vlad is

	20-02-2003 16:53									#46
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Because it is 2 tiles away from the Game tile, which we wouldn't be able to use for the first 10 turns.

(edit: wording)

Last edited by BigFurryMonster on 20-02-2003 at 19:41

	20-02-2003 18:55									#47
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quote: Why was the worker sent 2 exploring and not on one of the hills? I would move the settler 4 on the hill and build there. I just hate non-coastal cities with coastal tiles, they can't build a harbor and lose food, when working on water to make cash.

My thoughts exactly...

	20-02-2003 19:39									#48
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OK - now we need another confirmation, namely that of:

quote: Actually, we won't get barbs if we don't have a military

I'd do it, but I don't have the game available here.

Does the worker classify as being part of "a military", by the way?

	20-02-2003 19:45									#49
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quote: Originally posted by BigFurryMonster Does the worker classify as being part of "a military", by the way?

No, because it is a non-combat unit.

	20-02-2003 20:29									#50
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Is 2-NE of the settler water?

In that case, move the settler due north to the hill.

That way the city is coastal, it's further away from the jungles that seem to start just south, and there's still space for a city near the game and bonus grasslands, and the capital won't pop the goody hut from the first expansion.

	20-02-2003 21:48									#51
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I'm completely adverse to moving the settler, but thats just my opinion.

Our begining land isnt bad at all, and once we go on the hill, we might decide we dont like what we see.

Not worth it at all in my opinion.

	20-02-2003 22:14									#52
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I favour going E to build the city on the coast because it just seems a waste to have coastal tiles with no outlet to the sea. I always like to build the Colossus when I can.

But I’m not the expert player.

	20-02-2003 22:25									#53
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My 2c

-Build where we are (don't waste time)
-Road the game tile (get the extra $ asap to speed Bronze Working research)
-Pop the hut once the worker is finished the road

	20-02-2003 22:36									#54
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quote: Originally posted by Vlad Antlerkov Actually, we won't get barbs if we don't have a military (which normally means running a full-on Farmer's Gambit)... My opinion: Settle where we are this turn, and next turn, use the worker to pop the hut. That way, we have a chance of popping another Settler (since we can never pop a Settler if we have one active). In order to get a chance of popping BW from the hut, set research to Warrior Code (since we will never get the tech we're researching from a hut).

I have just verified that what Vlad says is true. Find the link to the conclusive evidence below:

GoodyHutPopTest.SAV

The game keeps the random seed.

If you pop the hut with the worker, leaving the Warrior in the capital, you will get a bunch of angry warriors. If you disband the Warrior first and pop only then, you will get a settler. This proves that if you have no military, you will never pop barbarians out of a goody hut.

Thus, I support what Vlad proposes. Just not sure about the "placeholder" technology though - I would probably go for Pottery, since that is a technology we want to go for anyway.

This way, we will get something nice from the goody hut for sure - money, map, settler, or a tech... well, I know, the village can be deserted, that's right... but it's still very well worth the try + it makes us safe once we have some military and our capital's borders expand, popping the hut anyway. I do not think we should worry about losing a couple of (2/3, to be exact) turns of our worker's working time. As industrious, we will catch up soon.

So, after reading through ALL of the posts in the forum, I personally support what Vlad proposed, with the only exception being that I would use Pottery as the placeholder tech. We want that tech more, IMHO, and it is cheaper, so we would be done with it earlier, switching to BW then, if we do not get it from the goody hut. Also, using Pottery, which is the cheapest tech available, we will make sure that if we get a tech, we get something fine (probably Ceremonial Burial, which would not hurt).

	20-02-2003 22:42									#55
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In Civ III, all beakers are lost if we discover via goody hut or trade what we are already reseraching.

	20-02-2003 22:47									#56
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quote: Originally posted by joncnunn In Civ III, akk beakers are lost if we discover via goody hut or trade what we are already reseraching.

AFAIK, you never get the tech you are researching.

	20-02-2003 23:03									#57
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I don't recall ever getting the tech via goody hut that I'm reseraching either, but I'm not sure if this is built it on simply due to my research pattern.

quote: Originally posted by vondrack AFAIK, you never get the tech you are researching.

	20-02-2003 23:05									#58
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I don't agree we want Pottery more than Bronze Working - my read on things was that the majority thought we should research Bronze Working first. If some want Pottery badly, they can cross their fingers that we get it from the hut. If we don't get it, Pottery will be cheap to research or buy at a later time.

	20-02-2003 23:16									#59
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No, no, Pottery is being used as a placeholder tech. If you pop a tech from a hut, it'll never be the tech you're researching. That way, we'll get a better chance of popping BW (as opposed to none at all if we start research on BW immediately).

As to roading the forest game tile before popping the hut--AFAIK, we wouldn't be able to do this before completing a warrior, even with Industrious workers...

	20-02-2003 23:27									#60
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My 2 lytons: Settle where we are, research pottery to completion (then BW if we don't get it from the hut). We won't be building Mercs for a while now, and with the game tile, we'll have a nice shield boost that can be complimented by a granary's growth boost. A few sub-obtimal ocean tiles we won't have the pop to use for a while don't matter, and any palace near the coast is a bad location; it would take many wasted turns moving the settler to get to an inland site, and we can't count on there being any nice bonuses at another site. Let's just take the bad palace location so we can take advantage of the good city site immediately.

Also, DON'T settle directly on the game tile as someone mentioned. Food bonuses are lost if a city is founded directly on the bonus tile. This was put in one of the Civ3 patches; it was supposed to combat ICS, IIRC.