28-02-2003 18:24									#31
	Enter the AD-FREE zone

Let's try it just to be sure. If the test is successful, we can start thinking about bringing this idea to Lego's attention and offering that they give us their current minimap so we can determine if this would be possible.
Btw, see the School of Code thread, I'm about to post a log there.

	01-03-2003 00:40									#32
	Increase Your PM Length

In SP galleys sink at the beginning of the turn.

	01-03-2003 00:55									#33
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

If we're absolutely sure, then we could go ahead and tell Lego that we have a plan to contact them that would work if there are 7 or less untraversable tiles between our landmasses at the nearest point, and have a method of finding the accurate distance between two points on a minimap, and therefore require their current minimap to determine whether this plan would work, and promise that we'd carry out our plan ASAP if we discover that it is doable.
I'm getting a clear impression from the conversations that I've logged that Legoland is eager to meet another civ, and would like to make contact as soon as possible in order not to fall too much behind in tech.
Btw, Lego is already way behind - they're researching IW at the moment, according to Vondrack.

	01-03-2003 03:22									#34
	Increase Your PM Length

I don't like the idea of giving out our mini-map (at least of our west coast). We still have a significant advantage on RP if we ever want to use it, namely the crossing (most likely lighthouse) that we know is there but no one else so far would know exists.

For the purposes of contact, us giving our east coast, and Lego giving their west coast, would work just as well. Our only secret information on the east coast is our Iron source, which won't show up on the mini-map anyways.

As an example of what we would trade:

Last edited by Aeson on 01-03-2003 at 03:36

	01-03-2003 03:25									#35
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

One other thing, the mini-map trade should be geography only. This brightens up the terrain displayed, and should make it easier to pinpoint exactly how much distance is inbetween. It also won't give out information about our cities.

	01-03-2003 03:26									#36
	Got spare money?

So propose an exchange of minimaps with all but our east coast and their west coast blacked out?

	01-03-2003 03:27									#37
	Remove this text

Good idea.
Do we need a poll on this, or can we just write up the proposal for this exchange and send it to Lego if the chief diplomat agrees?

	01-03-2003 03:40									#38
	Put an end to popups!

Another point for accuracy, we should trade the maps in a lossless format like .gif or .bmp (.jpg can be 100% too if done right). Compression could very well screw things up otherwise.

	01-03-2003 04:31									#39
	Full PM-box? Change here!

I like the 'your West coast for our East coast' deal, certainly if would give us the possibility to trade with lego. I think our relation to them could become quite pleasant, and if we would be possible to meet each other in the middle of the ocean, we could keep other teams from doing the same for a while.

The price is obvious: one galley... if it survives it's a plus, but we need to assume it sinks.

Aeson: not all the maps we got where lossless, and I think the minimap I created was also not lossless. The reason is not that I didn't do it (notice the combined minimap jpg being at 0% loss), but I had to start from the first available screenshot, which was compressed more. We need a better screenshot of the minimap to make it truely lossless...

DeepO

	01-03-2003 04:51									#40
	Get a bigger avatar today!

Yes, we'd need to make a new screenshot of the minimap in the terrain only mode. Our combined map will still have portions which aren't as good of quality.

We should specify in all future minimap trades that we want a clean non-compressed (or lossless compressed) map, and make sure the ones we trade are of the same nature.

	01-03-2003 05:03									#41
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Do we still have access to previous saves, or would it be best to simply take a lossless geo screenshot of the minimap next turn so we have one ready to use?

DeepO

	01-03-2003 06:14									#42
	Remove this text

I should have all the saves since 2550 when I started as one of our players.

	02-03-2003 04:50									#43
	Support Apolyton

You certainly have my full support for this move- the BOB's civs won't take their time to contact Lego, not with the tension constantly rising. I bet Lego will agree for this, the profit could be huge, if we do make it. But i think Lego's landmass is a narrow north-south stretch much like ours, with a diverse climate, so don't get your hopes up too much.

	02-03-2003 20:19									#44
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm not so sure... true, in most cases randomly-generated maps that are set on continents generate landmasses that are parallel, as if they were once connected and have set apart (in accordance with Plate Tectonics in the real world), but Lego did say that their landmass was mostly full of jungle (see their team newspaper which they published on the PTWDG forum), so perhaps it is stretched from east to west.

	07-03-2003 22:15									#45
	Increase the size of your Attachments

Have we contacted Legoland regarding partial minimap trade yet?

A reminder: (originally posted in the GSC&C thread)

quote: #civ3dem, times are GMT+2:00 quote: [19:38] * Thud has joined #civ3dem [19:38] Nimitz: hey [19:38] Thud: hi [19:39] Nimitz: so whats up [19:39] Thud: I've heard of some big happenings in legoland? (clipped some irrelevant chatter) [19:40] Nimitz: we may meet GoW soon This means that we have to hurry. I suggest that we notify Lego immediately that we want to trade the eastern shore of our minimap for the western shore of their minimap.

	07-03-2003 22:18									#46
	Support Apolyton

ohw... sorry. I'm going to write something now, but can't promise it will get send asap, I need to leave soon..

DeepO

	08-03-2003 16:45									#47
	Tired of ads?

GoW meets Lego- GoW gets an exclusive trading rights with Lego. GoW gets loads of money, the other teams don't like it, but RP doesn't like ND either.

What will be the outcome of this?

I'd really want to see GoW getting stronger, but i wonder if will be able to pull off a profitable trade with Lego, without upsetting the rest of the BOBians...

This should interesting.

	08-03-2003 17:09									#48
	Inflate your Upload Space

I'm not sure they would go for an exclusivity contract... perhaps, perhaps not. But if they do, the easiest for them to keep ND happy would be to simply give a bit of gold to them too.

Lego doesn't say anything about which team they're going to meet, or hope to meet. I hoped that by reminding them on the inplausability of galleys from Bob they would favor the Western route more... I would love to proof to them the world is round

DeepO

	08-03-2003 17:15									#49
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization: The Boardgame

If Lego has their own galleys, the only way an exclusivity contract could make sense is if they are offered truly bargain basement prices. And even then, they'll probably want at least to have contact with other civs.

	08-03-2003 17:26									#50
	Help yourself to an AD-FREE life

quote: BTW, if you would get into contact with a Bobian civ, don't go sailing around the continent just to meet us, that would take far too long. For you, it wouldn't be good to have only 1 contact, as monopolies tend to increase prices, and perhaps the civ you'd meet would try to keep your contact hidden. My best advice is that you try to meet at least 2 civs asap, the moment 2 teams have something of value (like e.g. a contact), they're impatient to sell what they got to everyone they know, because otherwise the other will be first. We were surprised to see our contact being brokered around extremely quickly, let's hope you meet many teams fast as well.

Good job DeepO.

	08-03-2003 17:36									#51
	Avatar Enlargement: We've got the solution

quote: Originally posted by nbarclay If Lego has their own galleys, the only way an exclusivity contract could make sense is if they are offered truly bargain basement prices.

well... I would be willing to offer those bargain basement prices. For 50 gold + their WM, they can have all techs we now have, if they promise not to sell their WM the first 20 turns, or better yet, if they give it to us again after 20 turns, hoping they have traded WMs with more civs in between.

Actually, for their WM, and 20 turns later their WM again, they can have all techs, no extra gold needed. The most important thing of an exclusivity contract is to keep lego's gold out of the coffers of other teams, not to augment our own treasury.

DeepO

	08-03-2003 17:38									#52
	Lose 30 kilos (of popups)

And on top of that, they can have all contacts from us too, if they want

If that's not a deal they would go for, I don't know what will be.

DeepO

	08-03-2003 17:58									#53
	Support Apolyton, buy Call to Power 2

I think that's a very good idea!
A complete map of the entire charted world, and depriving all the other teams of Lego's gold... yumm!

	08-03-2003 21:12									#54
	Suffering from ads?

And perhaps earning a friend for life!

It does kind of difficult for me to think we give all our techs for something less than a 3 digits sum of gold, but a 20-turn subscription to "Legoland Geographic (TM)" might be worthwhile.

	08-03-2003 21:23									#55
	Support Apolyton

Zeit, look at what we don't gain if we are not the ones selling information, instead of what we gain when we do. The problem is that lego will have contact with GoW first, so if we want to gain anything from it, we have to be extremely swift. Looking at the intonation of redstar's messages, we might only have 1 or 2 turns left.

I think that any advantage for us, instead of one to our competitors is welcome...

I just received a new message from redstar, I'm going to answer, and mention our interest in becoming prime tech supplier to them, without any details. Let's see how he reacts. In the mean time, please keep voicing opinions on the proposed deal: WM now, plus WM after 20 turns in exchange for any tech we can share, and any contact they don't have already. Anything on top of that would be welcome (gold, workers, etc.), but not neccesary in my eyes. If this goes through, I'll negotiate for more, but that would be my bottom price.

DeepO

	08-03-2003 22:03									#56
	Support Apolyton buy from Amazon

I'm not that comfortable with this whole 'sell at bottom prices before anyone else does' mentality...

I'm almost thinking of us doing no reasearch at all, instead just buying them, yes we will be a couple of techs behind, but wih a much bigger gold reserve.
Unless your the first one to discover anything, you stand to loose more then you gain.
(sounds very much like deity SP game, doesn't it )
-
hmm, just a thought, but the moment we become the tech leaders and sell something...
why not sell it with a 'never resell it ' clause.
We will have to settle for a cheaper prize, certainly, but we would be in command as to who gets what and when.
(and force them to do some research of their own.)

	08-03-2003 22:25									#57
	Browse Apolyton AD-FREE

Alva, I'm not that comfortable with it either, but we have to be realistically: if we don't do it, someone else will... any advantage over the rest is welcome, in my eyes. Plus, the techs that are currently for sale aren't exactly ours either, we only researched a few of them, the rest we got from trades.

As to signing a 'never resell' clause: yes, but it creates problems for us too, as others will ask for the same. We're still in a position where we can research faster then the rest, getting behind doesn't exactly advantage us, if we're not going to use the money saved to massupgrade or rush stuff.

DeepO

	08-03-2003 23:17									#58
	Support Apolyton or Terrorists Win

* I did post, before I read the last pm from lego *

You're right of-course, we dont't really have any alternative option..
-
Good message btw, leaving lots of room to manouver and still making some kind of comitment.
Ever had a job as a car salesman ?

	08-03-2003 23:27									#59
	Support Apolyton, buy Civilization 2

Good message, DeepO.

Do you mind if I shoot off an email to George W. proposing your services in re France, Germany, China, and Russia?

	09-03-2003 01:10									#60
	Put an end to popups!

Actually,Theseus, I would mind very much... better not get into a discussion on American foreign politics, the debate could go awry...

Don't forget Belgium is one of the countries supporting the German-French 'blockade', and for once I agree with my government.

As to becoming a car salesman... maybe, but only if those cars are used

DeepO