14-05-2003 18:29									#211
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I must agree many military stats are way off, I hope you guys were not refering to me, after all I'm 13th in Defence Per Capita spending and my economy level generally goes up and down between All-Consuming and Powerhouse.

If you were instead refering to m as well, tell me where you think I exaggerated and I'll reduce that branch.

P.S.
Sheep, I do agree with Archaich your military is a bit too much, espacially considering your nations are rather young, and that you have just got out from an occupation by another country, therefore you had to rebuild your military from scratches in there.

Please be reasonable my friend, you are asking too much from your country, if you continue like this it will collaspe in a very short time.

Saluti

	14-05-2003 21:14									#212
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quote: Originally posted by Archaic *Points to Sheeps new stats in the new thread* Anyone want to tell him how insane his numbers are?

I thought his navy is implausibly large. Haven't checked the rest of the numbers, though

quote: Originally posted by Sheep Tanks(Abram M1A2 tank):100,500 Marine carriers(holds troops, helicopters airplanes and landing craft): 80 Destoryers: 90(for grauding aircraft carriers, but the carriers are not that big) Attack Helicopters: 800 Transport Helocpters : 515 Fighters: 10,000 Fighter/bombers: 5,000 Ground-Attack Aircraft: 3,000 Attack Helicopters: 10,000 Trasport Helicopters: 8,000 Rescue Helicopters: 7,000 Slealth Bombers: 50 Air Fuel Tankers:90 (able to refuel planes in flight) Command and Controll planes(with Radar, ect.): 20 Gun Planes(artillery and other guns): 70 Air Craft Carriers : 25 Naval Aircraft: 4,000 AEGIS Cruisers: 400 AEGIS Destroyers: 100 Missle Cruisers: 75 Missle Destroyers: 75 (Nuclear Missle) Subs: 30 Attack Subs: 130 Transport ships: 5,000 Gun boats(mainly used close to coast and rivers): 3000 Coast Guard Patroll boats: 1,000

Most of the numbers I found excessive. I would like to know how Sheepsta got a bigger military force than the US?

	14-05-2003 23:42									#213
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I have the biggest per capita military, and the largest nation. Mine might be too low, sicne other nations in RP have got higher per capita spending than me, which the game states cannot be true.

	15-05-2003 05:44									#214
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Are you sure that they have higher per-capita spending? Which nations exactly? By both RP and the statistics, I have the arguably the largest economy in the region, so if you're talking about me, that could account for some of it.

	15-05-2003 10:13									#215
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Urban I am currently reviewing these.
Goivanni, Yes indeed however New Sheepsta, has been around for a while now, and the very fact that half the nation was occupied and the fact New Sheepsta is always geared for a war with the potential enemy that Alecrast is, is reason ernough for the dissportinal size of the military. When someone threatens your existence you must take every step possible to deter their motives.

	15-05-2003 11:34									#216
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep Urban I am currently reviewing these. Goivanni, Yes indeed however New Sheepsta, has been around for a while now,

Not long enough for an army of that size.

quote: Originally posted by Sheep and the very fact that half the nation was occupied

1) Godmod. It was 7/8th. Firing Ignore Cannons!

2) Godmod. It was not an occupation. Alecrast troops were only ever deployed to protect the borders of the protectorates once "New Sheepsta" rose up, and in the initial administration changeover phase to eliminate the groups loyal to Cardinal Ew. Firing Ignore Cannons!

quote: Originally posted by Sheep and the fact New Sheepsta is always geared for a war with the potential enemy that Alecrast is, is reason ernough for the dissportinal size of the military.

It's reason enough to maintain the largest possible armed forces you can maintain. However, your armed forces are too large and too well equipped (In terms of weapons and weapons platforms (ie. Tanks, etc, Naval Vessels and Aircraft, etc) to be maintained by an economy and a population the size of Sheepsta's!

quote: Originally posted by Sheep When someone threatens your existence you must take every step possible to deter their motives.

Exactly our point. You've gone beyond taking every step possible and tried to take impossible steps.

	15-05-2003 11:39									#217
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But the problem is that a military buildup against Alecrast would trigger a military buildup by Alecrast, and by the Treaty of Fonseca, and by other nearby nations like Karakas that are closely affiliated with Alecrast. In other words, an arms race.

Considering that most of those nations are capitalist paradises, would Sheepsta and its allies have the resources to keep up such a race without the bottom falling out of their economies?

	15-05-2003 11:40									#218
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Ahh but you forget my friend. I have friends in this region and others who can supply me with weapons. Under Lend-Lease agreements. Also the Dominion of Jobedpet where the government of Sheepsta retired to.

Also what you call 'protection' I call 'occupation' As I am Sheepsta and you are not, my views on the subject count for more than yours. The protectorates of North and South Sheepsta was a thinly veiled attempt to legitimase your annexation measures.

	15-05-2003 11:42									#219
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and also I have statred that with all my numbers, I am redifining them as I get the chance, top make them more realistic. You may of missed that post, in you blind fury to try and show me up? yes?

	16-05-2003 07:49									#220
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep Ahh but you forget my friend. I have friends in this region and others who can supply me with weapons. Under Lend-Lease agreements. Also the Dominion of Jobedpet where the government of Sheepsta retired to.

Maybe so, but you still have to be a bit more realistic, taking your population and economy into account. Since Sheepsta is right next to the Dominion of Noosland, we are gravely concerned.

	16-05-2003 12:01									#221
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and the other thing I forgot to mention is that by the tiome you started to accuse me of this I had already redifined the numbers. perhaps you need to look again?

	16-05-2003 13:29									#222
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You mean these excuses for numbers that you posted yesterday? Still too high!

quote: Originally posted by Sheep The Treaty of Mt. Gravatt The Unified States of Sheepsta and the Dominion of Jobepet Population: 290 million and 50 million in the Dominion. Capitals: Chopsu, SCT and Port Gitsham, Dominion of Jobedpet. Army -------------------- Troops: 2,000,000 Reserves (work other jobs can be calledup in wartime) every males between 16 - 40. Paratroopers: 500,000 Spec/Ops: 100,000 Tanks(Abram M1A2 tank):100,500 Tank Crews: 370,000 Moblie Anti Aircraft missle jeeps: 100,000 APC: 200,000 Self propelled Artillery: 23,000 Rocket Artillery: 10,000 Jeeps and other support trucks: 700,472 Support Troops: 700,000 Marines ------------------- Troops: 1,000,000 Marine carriers(holds troops, helicopters airplanes and landing craft): 80 Destoryers: 90(for grauding aircraft carriers, but the carriers are not that big) Attack Helicopters: 800 Transport Helocpters : 515 Airforce: ----------------------- Pilots: 104,000 Reverses: 600,000 Support Crew: 300,000 Fighters: 9,000 Fighter/bombers: 5,000 Ground-Attack Aircraft: 3,000 Heavy Bombers(B-52): 100 Attack Helicopters: 9,000 Trasport Helicopters: 5,000 Rescue Helicopters: 7,000 Slealth Bombers: 50 Air Transport Planes: 100 Air Fuel Tankers:90 (able to refuel planes in flight) Command and Controll planes(with Radar, ect.): 20 Gun Planes(artillery and other guns): 70 Navy: ---------------------- Sailors: 600,000 Reverses: 300,000 Support Crew: 400,000 Air Craft Carriers : 10 Naval Aircraft: 4,000 AEGIS Cruisers: 125 AEGIS Destroyers: 50 Missle Cruisers: 75 Missle Destroyers: 75 (Nuclear Missle) Subs: Classified Attack Subs: 50 Transport ships: 5,000 Gun boats(mainly used close to coast and rivers): 3000 Coast Guard Patroll boats: 1,000 (Note all subs and carriers are powered by nuclear power) Startegic Forces: --------------------- Nuclear Warheads: classified Nuclear Bombs: c;lassified ICBMs(five warhead in a missle): Classified Nuclear Missles on Missle Subs(five warhead in a missle): Classified Tatical Nuclear Weapons(Used by Army): Classified Biological Warheads: Classified Chemcial Warheads: Classified The Confederacy of New Griffith Population: 356 million Capital: Nathan Army -------------------- Troops: 3,000,000 Reservists(Work other jobs,payed 10,000 extra a year.): 3,500,000 Paratroopers: 1,000,000 Spec/Ops: 100,000 Tanks(Abram M1A2 tank):100,500 Tank Crews: 370,000 Moblie Anti Aircraft missle jeeps: 100,000 APC: 200,000 Self propelled Artillery: 23,000 Rocket Artillery: 10,000 Jeeps and other support trucks: 700,472 Support Troops: 700,000 Confederate Spec Ops. ------------------- Troops: 1,500,000 Attack Helicopters: 3,564 Transport Helocpters : 515 Airforce: ----------------------- Pilots: 50,000 Reverses: 600,000 Support Crew: 300,000 Fighters: 10,000 Fighter/bombers: 10,000 Ground-Attack Aircraft: 6,000 Heavy Bombers(B-52): 200 Attack Helicopters: 10,000 Trasport Helicopters: 8,000 Rescue Helicopters: 7,000 Slealth Bombers: 50 Air Transport Planes: 100 Air Fuel Tankers:90 (able to refuel planes in flight) Command and Controll planes(with Radar, ect.): 20 Gun Planes(artillery and other guns): 70 Startegic Forces: --------------------- Nuclear Warheads: classified Nuclear Bombs: classified ICBMs(five warhead in a missle): Classified Nuclear Missles on Missle Subs(five warhead in a missle): Classified Tatical Nuclear Weapons(Used by Army): Classified Biological Warheads: Classified Chemcial Warheads: Classified Democratic State of Neveria Population: 36 million Capital: Tortilla Army -------------------- Troops: 1,000,000 National Guard(reserves, not on full pay): 500,000 Paratroopers: 50,000 Spec/Ops: 10,000 Tanks(Abram M1A2 tank):1,500 Tank Crews: 3,000 Moblie Anti Aircraft missle jeeps: 1,000 APC: 2,000 Self propelled Artillery: 2,000 Rocket Artillery: 1,000 Jeeps and other support trucks: 70,472 Support Troops: 70,000 Marines ------------------- Troops: 500,000 Reverses: 100,000 Marine carriers(holds troops, helicopters airplanes and landing craft): 8 Destoryers: 9 Attack Helicopters: 80 Transport Helocpters : 55 Airforce: ----------------------- Pilots: 20,000 Reverses: 30,000 Support Crew: 300,000 Fighters: 5,000 Fighter/bombers: 5,000 Ground-Attack Aircraft: 1,000 Heavy Bombers(B-52): 20 Attack Helicopters: 4,000 Trasport Helicopters: 2,000 Rescue Helicopters: 1,000 Slealth Bombers: 5 Air Transport Planes: 100 Air Fuel Tankers: 30 (able to refuel planes in flight) Command and Controll planes(with Radar, ect.): 20 Gun Planes(artillery and other guns): 70 Navy: ---------------------- Sailors: 100,000 Reverses: 300,000 Support Crew: 400,000 Air Craft Carriers : none Naval Aircraft: 1,000 AEGIS Cruisers: 20 AEGIS Destroyers: 10 Missle Cruisers: 30 Missle Destroyers: 13 (Nuclear Missle) Subs: 6 Attack Subs: 15 Transport ships: 1,000 Gun boats(mainly used close to coast and rivers): 1,000 Coast Guard Patroll boats: 500 (Note all subs and carriers are powered by nuclear power) Startegic Forces: --------------------- Nuclear Warheads: classified Nuclear Bombs: c;lassified ICBMs(five warhead in a missle): Classified Nuclear Missles on Missle Subs(five warhead in a missle): Classified Tatical Nuclear Weapons(Used by Army): Classified Biological Warheads: Classified Chemcial Warheads: Classified Free Republic of Pax Sheepus Population: 5 million Capital: Romus Sheepus Army -------------------- Troops: 30,000 Paratroopers: 500 Spec/Ops: 100 Tanks(Abram M1A2 tank):100 Tank Crews: 370 Moblie Anti Aircraft missle jeeps: 100 APC: 200 Self propelled Artillery: 23 Rocket Artillery: 10 Jeeps and other support trucks: 700 Support Troops: 700 Airforce: ----------------------- Pilots: 1,000 Reverses: 6,000 Support Crew: 3,000 Fighters: 80 Fighter/bombers: 50 Ground-Attack Aircraft: 30 Heavy Bombers(B-52): 1 Attack Helicopters: 100 Trasport Helicopters: 80 Rescue Helicopters: 70 Slealth Bombers: 5 Air Transport Planes: 10 Air Fuel Tankers:9 (able to refuel planes in flight) Command and Controll planes(with Radar, ect.): 20 Gun Planes(artillery and other guns): 70 Navy: ---------------------- Sailors: 9,000 Reverses: 3,000 Support Crew: 4,000 Air Craft Carriers : Naval Aircraft: 10 AEGIS Cruisers: 2 AEGIS Destroyers: 5 Missle Cruisers: 6 Missle Destroyers: 3 (Nuclear Missle) Subs: 2 Attack Subs: 10 Transport ships: 50 Gun boats(mainly used close to coast and rivers): 300 Coast Guard Patroll boats: 10 (Note all subs and carriers are powered by nuclear power) Startegic Forces: --------------------- Nuclear Warheads: classified Nuclear Bombs: c;lassified ICBMs(five warhead in a missle): Classified Nuclear Missles on Missle Subs(five warhead in a missle): Classified Tatical Nuclear Weapons(Used by Army): Classified Biological Warheads: Classified Chemcial Warheads: Classified

	16-05-2003 13:35									#223
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I beg to differ. and I am sure others will also.

	16-05-2003 15:00									#224
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Bullshit Sheep. To take one of the possibily more extreme examples, Neveria has over 1/36th of its entire population in the army alone!?!?! (ie. Not counting the Navy or Air Force.) If you think this is an acceptable figure, then go back to the hospital and have your head examined again.

	16-05-2003 15:04									#225
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I forgot to add that the populations are not updated there. Also If you forget Australia with a population of 4 million in 1900 they had an armed forces of 100,000. Work that out will ya. It would be about the same.

AND WILL YOU STOP DISPUTING EVERYTHING I DO. If someone else does I will listen, but you seem toi do just because I did it, so I am going to Ignore your objections.

	16-05-2003 15:13									#226
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1900 is a *VERY* different era Sheep, before military aircraft, and that accounts for a lot. No country could afford to support something of that size now, simply because of the level of tech they'd also have to support.

I dispute what you do not because it's you who are doing it Sheep, but because what you do is WRONG. A lot of other people here voiced the same objections, and you refused to listen to them either. Now read the Military thread GT posted earlier, shut up, and admit that you're wrong.

	17-05-2003 05:23									#227
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By my estimations the total of those new numbers is somewhat higher than the total armed forces of North America.

Edit: Spelling and whatnot.

Last edited by Mr. President on 17-05-2003 at 05:55

	18-05-2003 07:06									#228
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But its like 5 nations.

	18-05-2003 08:29									#229
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And each of those nations has more power than they can possibily support.

	18-05-2003 08:32									#230
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Not if you take into account their new population sizes, the level of technology and the fact that all my economies are going up, and some lucratice trade deals with civfanatica nations.

	18-05-2003 13:00									#231
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*sigh* I had a feeling back when DarkCloud started this military thread that it wasn't going to work out, simply because no-one will accept any form of criticism and is always trying to one-up everyone else.

	18-05-2003 14:07									#232
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep Not if you take into account their new population sizes, the level of technology and the fact that all my economies are going up, and some lucratice trade deals with civfanatica nations.

Bullshit. New Sheepsta is a Basket Case, and the others are bad themselves. Their populations, with the exception of New Griffith, are less than half the size of mine. And you can't make lucrative trade deals when you have nothing to trade with.

	18-05-2003 14:08									#233
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Careful there my friend. You don;t make any sense. I don;t really care what you think Archaic. You are a selfish idiot, and I'm suprised nobody has told you to rack off yet.

	18-05-2003 14:33									#234
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep Careful there my friend. You don;t make any sense. I don;t really care what you think Archaic. You are a selfish idiot, and I'm suprised nobody has told you to rack off yet.

Alecrast's pop is over 700 million. New Griffith has under 400 million, New Sheepsta has under 330 million. Furthermore, like I said, New Sheepsta's economy is rated as a Basket Case. Look at the site. "Economy: Basket Case". New Griffith has "Economy: Reasonable", and that's your best one. Reasonable is below "Average" BTW.

You seem to think people are selfish idiots if they don't "let you have fun". Of course, if you weren't trying to have fun by godmodding and making impossible claims to apparently try to "win", then we wouldn't be preventing you from "having fun", would we?

	19-05-2003 00:39									#235
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Archaic: You also have no tax. How would you pay for the army? Volantary donations? I agree Sheep's is overstated, and with your posts on the subject, but that struck me a while ago. Any thoughts?

	19-05-2003 04:03									#236
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Forgive my inexperience with this, I would like to ask the economists among us what is a reasonable level of military spending per capita, numbers of troops as a percentage of the population, and research/development as a percentage of GDP?

Thanks!

	19-05-2003 04:36									#237
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quote: Originally posted by Drogue Archaic: You also have no tax. How would you pay for the army? Volantary donations? I agree Sheep's is overstated, and with your posts on the subject, but that struck me a while ago. Any thoughts?

No income tax. We do have other taxation (A Goods and Services tax, or as you might know it, a Value Added Tax or VAT), though that's pretty much besides the point here except where the Foreign Legion is concerned, it being the only Alecraft force of any size to get the majority of its funding from the government. The Alecrast armed forces, including its navies and air force, are really somewhat "private armies" raised by the regional Dukes and Duchesses, various business concerns such as Nukes4U, and several of the labour unions (Such as the Union of Bikers and Truckers, which effectivly "owns" the MadBoyz Batallion. It's President it should be noted, currently sits on the Council as Minister for Transport and Regional Services), as well as the Monarch, out of their own pockets through the incomes they make with their business concerns, which work together out of interests of national cohesion and security. All the men, including those in the reserves, get paid quite handsomely for their services. And so they're not "dead weight", the Alecrast armed forces are frequently "loaned out" to other liberal and/or capitalistic nations (As a rule not to Dictators unless their citizens have both full civil and economic rights, such as with Bulbagarden) for defence, which has both given the forces field training that money simply cannot buy, and gives them a steady income that gets reinvested straight back into them.

	19-05-2003 15:04									#238
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Upon reading some of the posts, we have to concur that Sheeps armed forces do seem somewhat overstates. I dont know what is a reasonable level for troops (see my previous post), but I'm sure it could be down to an "adminstrative error" on the part of Sheep, that can be easily corrected, like the previous Marijuanian government with the *cough* overstated space programme.

How about it Sheep?

	21-05-2003 07:57									#239
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quote: Originally posted by Sheep I beg to differ. and I am sure others will also.

If you could come up with a plausible explanation of your military budget in terms of your national economy, I'll accept. Right now, 125 AEGIS cruisers is an impossible number.

	21-05-2003 08:02									#240
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quote: Originally posted by elijah Forgive my inexperience with this, I would like to ask the economists among us what is a reasonable level of military spending per capita, numbers of troops as a percentage of the population, and research/development as a percentage of GDP? Thanks!

I suppose it's largely dependent, as one of the countries has (had?) the defense budget at 59% of the total budget. To me, it's a bit excessive, but hey, that's a personal choice.