12-02-2004 02:20									#301
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And Sleepy's response to my response.

quote: Thank you for being understanding. I do hope that we can work something out.

	12-02-2004 04:33									#302
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democracy isn't very useful for a nonreligious civ

but they are religious

hmmm

JOn Miller

	12-02-2004 08:01									#303
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Yes - hmmm. But I would be ok with Physics down the road and say - 40 turns of a luxury.

	22-02-2004 23:36									#304
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PM From asleepathewheel

quote: Rhothaerill- We discussed before the possibility of us trading you physics. Now we are in a position to do so, and I see that your team does not have it yet. Interested? -aatw

We can obviously get it from Lego, but if we trade then we can still try to keep up the pretense that we aren't clearly in Lego's camp...for whatever that's worth.

	24-02-2004 00:55									#305
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We need to decide this soon so that I can get back to Cort Haus about it (Sleepy told me he'll be gone for a while). We obviously don't NEED to do it since we'll get the tech from Lego, but making it look like we don't get all the techs from Lego is a good thing.

	24-02-2004 01:33									#306
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I am not sure

I think that everyone knows that we are completely in Lego's camp

I doubt if we will be tricking anyone

JOnMiller

	24-02-2004 22:29									#307
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PM sent to Cort Haus (since Sleepy is on vacation) to both stall for time and to see what they think about a luxury deal instead.

quote: Hi Cort Haus. Sorry but I forgot to send this to you last night. Thank you for sending physics last turn, but we were unable to complete the deal yet for two reasons. 1) we are still discussing it internally and 2) we don't have democracy for another few turns. I will be honest that we after asleepathewheel originally mentioned that you would not be able to send us physics for a while we have been working to get it from other sources. However that deal has not been finalized yet either. However, let me take this time to feel your team out about a possible other deal for democracy too. A while back asleepathewheel had mentioned that youhave several luxuries to trade. We were thinking about the possibility of trading democracy to you for future luxury deals (i.e. we don't need any now, but we will in the future and would like to have the option to request 20 turn luxury deals from you when we need it). Are you interested? And if so, what do you think would be fair? We look forward to hearing from you. Thanks Rhoth

	25-02-2004 00:08									#308
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Response from Cort Haus.

quote: Thanks for the note, Rhoth. I'll post it on our forum for discussion. Off the top of my head, I don't think we're in a hurry for Democracy, but maybe we'll want it some time when you guys have built your aqueducts and need more lux, so perhaps we will have a deal at some point. Regards, Cort.

	27-02-2004 23:12									#309
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PM sent to asleepathewheel. I don't want to let this trading deal get past us and luxury deals in the future will be great to have.

quote: Greetings to asleepathewheel and the many fine people of Gathering Storm. We at Vox Controli regret to inform you that we have finalized a deal with another team for physics. Per my PM to Cort Haus while you were gone, we went to another source after your original PM about not being able to send us physics for a while. However, we are still very interested in working out a deal with your team for democracy. As an alternate proposal we are willing to send you democracy now (well, on 670ad when we finish research ). In exchange we would request 100 gold and options on 3 20-turn luxury deals in the future. We do not need luxuries at this time, but we will in the future when we have a few more cities able to grow above size 6. At that time we would request that you send us a luxury resource for the agreed upon amount of turns. If this is acceptable to you and your team we can write up a formal deal. We look forward to hearing from you. Regards, Rhoth

	03-03-2004 05:19									#310
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PM to Sleepy inquiring about the deal.

quote: Greetings to asleepathewheel and the many fine people of Gathering Storm, And in a less official manner...Hi Sleepy. I just wanted to inquire how the possible deal of democracy for 100 gold and 3 luxury options was going in your forum. We will be playing the turn tonight and we receive democracy once we open it. I look forward to hearing from you, Rhoth

	03-03-2004 05:50									#311
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Response from Sleepy.

quote: I'm sorry, but at this time we are going to have to decline. We just don't have the cash on hand to spare. And while we are religious, we can't afford even one turn of anarchy right now, so democracy is of little current utility. We will have either Theory of Gravity or magnetism available for trade in a turn or two (I can't remember which at the moment), but we expect that you will have procured those from other sources as well. Sorry we couldn't work something out -aatw

	03-03-2004 05:54									#312
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And my response to him. Hopefully they will not go anywhere else down the road, though it would be at least 20 turns because of the NTAs if they were to receive it from GoW or ND.

quote: That's too bad but we understand. We have already made deals to receive the next few techs so that is unfortunately out of the question too. But keep us in mind for a future deal when you are ready for democracy. We would still be willing to trade it for luxury concessions and/or gpt deals. Regards, Rhoth

	20-03-2004 03:16									#313
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PM received from Arrian:

quote: Rhoth, Since the industrial age is upon us, I thought it was about time we had a discussion about possible technology trading. Last I checked, you were not yet in the industrial age, but I imagine you will be soon, and of course will be receiving your bonus technology. Suffice it to say that, unless it's the one we've already researched (Steam Power), we would be interested in acquiring it from you. Would you be willing to give us a shout once you've gotten it, and let us know what it is and what you might be willing to trade it for? -Arrian p.s. It's probably best to PM multiple Stormians at once, just to make sure the team gets it quickly. I know Cort Haus is on vacation next week, so the best bets are probably me, DeepO and Sleepy. Thanks!

	20-03-2004 03:25									#314
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And my response to Arrian:

quote: Greetings Arrian, We will indeed be reaching the industrial age soon. In truth we should reach it this turn (720ad). We obviously do not know what it is we will receive, but rest assured we are willing to trade it with you (unless it's Steam Power of course since you already have that). Basically what we'd be looking for in return are luxury options and gold. I've discussed with Sleepy in the past that we'd like to build up options to call in for 20-turn luxuries in the future when we will be needing them (after our aqueducts are built ). Also, if you are interested, Vox still has Democracy to trade to you if you are interested. The original deal we'd proposed of 3 luxury options and 100 gold fell through because of the gold request, but we'd be willing to negotiate if your team is interested again. Perhaps a 5gpt deal instead of a straight 100 gold, or perhaps a 4th tech option instead of the gold would work. Regards, Rhoth

	20-03-2004 03:35									#315
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The response from Arrian:

quote: Hey, thanks for the fast reply! Gold and luxuries on demand sound good to me - we can work with that. Get back in touch when you know which tech you got, ok? While we may be interested in demo at some point in the future, we aren't now, sorry. We can't really afford the anarchy, and the benifit would be minimal anyway. Our empire is very small, after all (you know the feeling, I'm sure). -Arrian

	20-03-2004 03:42									#316
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And my response back to him. They still don't want democracy, but hopefully we'll convince them sometime.

quote: Vox aims to please. I should be able to get back to you sometime this weekend once we have our turn sorted out. I'll make sure to PM several of your team since I know you don't often log on during the weekend. Regarding democracy, that's too bad but we understand. If you ever do change your mind please keep us in mind. Vox has taken pride in being the "Purveyors of Democracy" to the world. By the way, if you're tired of how small your island is, Vox would be happy to switch with you. Regards, Rhoth

EDIT: to add the smilies back in.

	20-03-2004 08:05									#317
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"By the way, if you're tired of how small your island is, Vox would be happy to switch with you. "

Excellent!

Also, it is interesting that they made no mention of the tech trading clause in the Voxodus agreement.

	22-03-2004 04:32									#318
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PM sent to Arrian, Sleepy, and DeepO

quote: Greetings to Arrian, asleepathewheel, DeepO and the ever growing membership of Gathering Storm, Pursuant to Arrian's question the other day regarding trading for our free tech we have indeed received Nationalism and we would be willing to trade it to you. We would like to see what your team is willing to offer. Our interests lie in future options for 20-turn luxury deals and gold. We look forward to hearing from you. Regards, Rhoth

	22-03-2004 04:38									#319
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Response from DeepO (I've always wondered what his name means but never asked. )

quote: Thanks Rhoth, we figured already you got Nationalism. Please let me take it to the team, to see what we can offer. DeepO

	24-03-2004 22:43									#320
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PM sent to Gathering Storm

quote: Greetings to Arrian, asleepathewheel, Cort Haus, DeepO, and the many fine people of Gathering Storm. Last week we discussed the possibilities of a trade for nationalism and we had sent back that we were interested in gold and luxuries. However we have had more time to think about it and we are interested in the technology of electricity. If you are currently researching electricity we would like to trade for it. Our rock needs irrigation and it would be a while otherwise before we would be able to research that technology (we were really hoping for Steam Power for our free tech. ) We realize that electricity is more expensive than nationalism (by 20 tech points) so in return we propose that we would include democracy with the deal and in return you would include one 20-turn future luxury option. There would of course be a 20-turn no-trade agreement attached to the trade on both our sides. Let me know what your team thinks about this. We look forward to hearing from you. Regards, Rhoth

	24-03-2004 23:54									#321
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Response from Arrian

quote: RE: PTWDG Vox Nationalism Deal Rhoth, Heh, interesting. I just posted a proposal to pay you in gold and luxuries for nationalism in our private forum. I guess I'll scrap that then. No biggie, since I was pulling numbers from thin air anyway. I personally prefer tech-for-tech trades, so in general I like your idea, although the specifics may need further negotiation. I'll get back to you on it. We might, in fact, be interested in Democracy down the road a bit, so it's possible your idea could work. I agree we would want a 20-turn no-trade clause on the deal. -Arrian

	29-03-2004 23:53									#322
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PM from Arrian

quote: RE: PTWDG Vox Nationalism Deal Rhoth - A quick, unofficial note: I've been really busy IRL lately, and it appears the same is true of several of my fellow Stormians. Diplo contact with several teams, including yours, is suffering because of that. So please don't take silence from us on this issue to indicate we've lost interest... it's just we sometimes go through stretches when we're semi-functional as a team. I hope we will come up with a proposal for a nationalism trade soon. Sorry! -Arrian

	05-04-2004 22:34									#323
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Reminder PM to Gathering Storm

quote: Greetings to Arrian, asleepathewheel, DeepO and the many fine people of Gathering Storm. I haven't heard back from you yet so I'm just inquiring about the status of the possible nationalism deal that we had discussed a little while back. Has your team voted on it yet? We look forward to hearing from you. Regards, Rhoth

And their quick response

quote: My apologies Rhoth... I think we overlooked this. We have been going through some problems with diplo personnel lately, all our ambassadors are swamped in RL issues I'll try to see if anyone is active. DeepO

	08-04-2004 21:01									#324
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PM from Arrian.

quote: Rhoth, Sorry for our unresponsiveness on this. We are, in fact, interested in trading Electricity for Nationalism... just not yet. We're not real keen on devaluing the tech yet. We've been having problems of late with tech deals... with a particular team, and it's complicating all that we do. I will ask my team to try and figure out when we will be ready to do the deal. I don't think it should be more than a few turns, but I'm not positive on that... sorry. -Arrian

	08-04-2004 21:49									#325
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And my response.

quote: Thanks Arrian. We'll wait for your response on when you're ready to trade. A few turns is fine. Hopefully it won't be too long though. We're itching to finally squeeze some water out of our rock. Regards, Rhoth

I wonder what team they are having trouble with. I didn't ask though.

	09-04-2004 03:34									#326
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I suspect it is either ND or Lego.

	09-04-2004 03:54									#327
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quote: Originally posted by Beta I suspect it is either ND or Lego.

My thought as well, though I suspect ND. Vondrack mentioned they haven't had any contact with GS at all lately (though perhaps that could be a reason). Roleplay is a non-entity in tech trading now (several behind) so it's surely not them. GoW could be the culprit, but from what Vondrack said those two teams are working closer again. Which leaves ND. ND has historically been difficult to deal with, though my dealings with Zayxus lately have gone very well.

	10-04-2004 18:25									#328
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I find the notes from GS interesting. It is not clear as to whether the team is in disarray at times, or if that is the image they want to project.

If I was Gs right now - I would be courting GoW and ND like crazy for an attack on Lego. If they have any hope in the game at all, this is it.

In some respects we are responsible for Lego's large lead. We certainly interrupted GS' early peaceful growth, and made them burn through an early GA.

	10-04-2004 22:21									#329
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PM from DeepO. We will have electricity. The 30-turn NTA is not a problem. I expected 20 turns at the least and we haven't been into trading the techs we receive anyway. Lego had mentioned that they would be contacting GS about an industrialization/electricity trade down the line no matter if we made this deal or not so I have no trouble agreeing to it.

quote: Rhoth, Our forum stays very quiet... too bad. But I think we let you wait long enough for a response, for which I apologize. Normally I'm not an ambassador, so forgive me if this is not worded perfectly, but here's our proposal: We're not exactly interested in democracy, as we explained to you before. We wouldn't gain much by switching govs, and can't afford the anarchy, even if it's only one turn. We are interested in Nationalism, though. We offer you Electricity as a one on one trade for Nationalism. However, seeing as Electricity is worth a lot more beakers (base cost being 3360 beakers instead of Nationalism at 2880, and Nationalism has devalued by trading it to other teams), and you will be the second to receive Electricity (after ourselves), we ask for a favor: To uphold, instead of the now more or less standard 20-turn NDAs on techs, a 30-turn NDA on Electricity. This should ensure to us that we have ample opportunity to trade our tech around. I've sent you Electricity unaccepted in the save, if you offer Nationalism in return and accept, you can have Elec in 2 turns from now (meaning your workers only need to wait one turn before they can irrigate) So, would you be interested in the following deal: We give Electricity, which you promise to not trade or give away for another 30 turns after receiving it (meaning not before turn 227 (we're currently at 195). In return, we acquire Nationalism, which we do not trade or give away in 20 turns, meaning before turn 217. If this satisfies you, just reply to our offer of Elec with Nat, accept the deal, and send it our way. It is the fastest way I can think of that gives you Electricity. And frankly, I think it's a good deal for you, or at least among the best we can offer. kind regards, DeepO

	10-04-2004 22:29									#330
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My response.

quote: Greetings to DeepO and the many fine people of Gathering Storm. We at Vox Controli do agree to this deal and the 30 turn NDA. We will not trade electricity before the turn you specified. I will send you nationalism-accepted on this turn as response. Regarding democracy, one of the reasons I was trying to dangle that as trade bait was that the NDA's we had received from our other trades were expiring soon and wanted to finish being the "Purveyors of democracy to the world" before one of the other teams tried to trade it to you. But if you're no interested in it at all then not a problem. I'll stop dangling it as trade bait. On that note, we are researching communism right now. If you're team is interested, please give me a holler and we can work something out. Thanks and pleasure doing business with you. Rhoth